Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff

[Tugg Speedman]

I am confused.  I never got the impression that Lee or Miller were a #donedeal from Big Daddy's post.  Nor did I get the impression that most scoopers thought that was the case.  Most were just appreciative that BD posted some nuggets about almost every returning player, incoming player, or major recruiting target.  Some rosterbating took place but that was fantasizing about what could happen, not necessarily would happen.

Here is my interpretation of what BD said:

"Plan A is Lee and Miller"= The coaching staff's ideal a scenario (a possibility not a given)
"Plan B is either Lee or Miller"= If we can't get both, hopefully we at least we get one.
"Plan C is Jucos"=no names so I never really thought there was an ironclad plan C

"Lee plans to visit MU"=coaching staff still trying to set up visit

"Coaches confident they can get a commit if Lee visits since MU would be last"= coaches confident in their ability to close on recruits but no guarantee to get Lee or Miller...better than the alternative, which is lacking confidence...but I've seen a ton of recruits with all 5 visits scheduled that commit before completing all 5...so unless/until Lee or Miller visits I'm not expecting a commit to MU to be the final result...neither visited MU...had either visited MU then our chances for a commit go way up...being the last visit means no one blew Lee or Miller away and MU has a chance to beat them...Louisville and UConn blew them away and ended up being the last visits since no other visits were made

I also have no idea who BD's source or sources are.  Coaches?  Players?  Parents of players?  The video coordinator?  Could be just about anyone.  I never was under the impression that the info came straight from directly from Wojo or the assistant coaches.  Probably a combination of a variety of sources.  Sources that have knowledge of what is going on or may have heard things about what is going on.  BD has a good track record of his sources providing good info.  But none of that info said "Lee will commit" or "Miller will commit".  BD informed us about the process, nothing more.  Did others see it this way or do you guys interpret things the way Heisenberg did?

Let's not get into dissembling the word "plan" again.  When someone in your office says they heard the boss has a "plan" do you think it is a mere "suggestion"?  Yes the definition includes suggestion but no one thinks that when they hear plan?

And here is what I wrote in the very first post ....


What is concerning is what BD said above.  The coaching staff had as their #1 target someone that wasn't a realistic option.  They were not concerned about him committing before he visits when they should have been concerned about exactly that.  Had he visited, considered and then picked something else it would have been better than what actually happened.  At least if he visited we were a serious option and not a safety school.

Similarly option #2 (Miller) was someone that was also not a realistic option.  Again we were merely a safety school and the coaching staff thought we were more than that.

[TedBaxter]

Hi Ted,

Tomacz Gielo would fit perfectly. 6-9, 225 athletic power forward. He also has a sweet stroke from 3. We get him, then we have four bigs 6-9 and up, and a three point threat.

This is a grad student who can make a real impact on an invigorated team, with a great pedigree, a well known coach, in a major conference.

I know I sound like I'm oversimplifying, but if we get him, he fills two holes and makes us a legit BEAST contender.

I would agree that he is one of the 4 or 5 grad transfers in the frontcourt that could help.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Let's not get into dissembling the word "plan" again.  When someone in your office says they heard the boss has a "plan" do you think it is a mere "suggestion"?  Yes the definition includes suggestion but no one thinks that when they hear plan?

When it comes to hiring an outside person, yes a plan is merely a suggestion.  For example, a TV station I used to work for held a quarterly meeting where the station GM said "We plan to hire Mrs. Katie XYZ to be our new female news anchor."  But no contract was signed and Mrs. Katie XYZ ended up choosing between two other job offers in major markets.  So the GM's plan did not come to fruition.  Recruiting is the same since you have a coach "trying to hire" a recruit.  What the coach plans and the recruit decides are not always the same thing.

You just flat out chose the wrong definition of plan in this case.  The definition of plan you are using would be akin to the station GM saying "We plan to eliminate our 4 pm newscast."  In that case I agree that the plan is a near certainty.  When words have a variety of definitions it is important to pick the right definition for the situation.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So we had one person (now called naginIF) attack me after admitting he did not even read what I wrote, just saw my name and started a new thread announcing I was an idiot without barely understanding the topic.  

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=47446.0

Now after 5 pages you admit you still want to fight with me based on your (inaccurate) read of the headline without actually understanding what was said here.  You already posted a complete misread of this post on the previous page and this post really has nothing to do with this topic here.

I'm guessing if you wrote more accurate thread titles this might not be an issue. Yes other people shouldn't judge a book by its cover, but you can only control what you do. If post hyperbolic or inaccurate thread titles than people will react this way. I'm not saying its right, it's just the way it is. Since you can't stop them from reacting, if it really bothers you that much, change what you are doing.

[Tugg Speedman]

When it comes to hiring an outside person, yes a plan is merely a suggestion.  For example, a TV station I used to work for held a quarterly meeting where the station GM said "We plan to hire Mrs. Katie XYZ to be our new female news anchor."  But no contract was signed and Mrs. Katie XYZ ended up choosing between two other job offers in major markets.  So the GM's plan did not come to fruition.  Recruiting is the same since you have a coach "trying to hire" a recruit.  What the coach plans and the recruit decides are not always the same thing.

You just flat out chose the wrong definition of plan in this case.  The definition of plan you are using would be akin to the station GM saying "We plan to eliminate our 4 pm newscast."  In that case I agree that the plan is a near certainty.  When words have a variety of definitions it is important to pick the right definition for the situation.

Did Ms. Katie XYZ not even interview and take another job a few days later?  If so, then your management should held to account for misjudging.

Again (for the umpteenth time) if we assume Big Daddy was correct.  The coaches were not worried Lee was visiting other schools and said he would visit in early May.  Wrong on both accounts.  And again, if he actually visited, tweeted what a great place it was and then picked Loserville, I would have been fine with that.

What happens look like a misjudgement by the coaches.  We were never anything more than a safety school and it sounds like we did not have much of a back-up plan.

I hope I'm wrong and we announce some decent grad transfers and/or Jucos that can contribute next year.

[bilsu]

You identify the best candidate and then give it your best effort. That is much better than not trying at all. There was mutual interest and I am sure Wojo knew he was fighting an uphill battle. However, to get the best you have to be willing to fight a lot of uphill battles and you are going to lose most of them. I am sure there where other transfers that Wojo was interested in, but they had no interest MU so there was no follow up effort. These two at least narrowed it down to 5 with MU. Maybe we were distance 5th place going in, but as long as there was a chance for a visit we had a chance. As far as filling the scholarships, the poster who thinks we need to fill them has to realize that if we lost four players again the players that could be brought in now would not stem the disaster. You do not wreck your potential 2016 recruiting class for a potential disaster program that is not going to save the current season.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Mrs. Katie XYZ verballed, then decommitted.  Job stayed open a little longer but a strong hire was eventually made.

For the umpteenth time I am not concerned.  I've seen countless recruits schedule 5 visits and commit after taking just one or two.  Lee didn't even have a date finalized.  The whole time it looked to me like MU was in the top 5 but Arizona and Louisville were his top 2 since they had visits scheduled.  Guess what: Lee took his two scheduled visits and committed after the 2nd one to that school.

I don't think BD had any info factually wrong.  As for the "coaches not being concerned", they probably weren't.  They just didn't have a crystal ball to tell the future.  I am sure Wojo is not naive to how the recruiting game works.  Things change all the time, even in 8 days or less!

[GGGG]

Mrs. Katie XYZ verballed, then decommitted.  Job stayed open a little longer but a strong hire was eventually made.

For the umpteenth time I am not concerned.  I've seen countless recruits schedule 5 visits and commit after taking just one or two.  Lee didn't even have a date finalized.  The whole time it looked to me like MU was in the top 5 but Arizona and Louisville were his top 2 since they had visits scheduled.  Guess what: Lee took his two scheduled visits and committed after the 2nd one to that school.

I don't think BD had any info factually wrong.  As for the "coaches not being concerned", they probably weren't.  They just had didn't have a crystal ball to tell the future.  I am sure Wojo is not naive to how the recruiting game works.  Things change all the time, even in 8 days or less!

Traci Carter set "tentative visits" for UConn and Memphis, but after coming to Marquette never took them.

Henry Ellenson never visited Kentucky after naming them in his final four.  (I think.)

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Henry Ellenson never visited Kentucky after naming them in his final four.  (I think.)

Final 3, but otherwise you are correct

[mu03eng]

Henry Ellenson never visited Kentucky after naming them in his final four.  (I think.)

This is correct, I'm sure the Kentucky board is worried about Cal and his staff.

We can argue semantics all we want with Heisenburg but at the end of the day we had a target that didn't pan out, we'll see what the next set of targets do.  Just like the team can only play the teams on the schedule, Wojo can only recruit the landscape that's in front of him.  There aren't a lot of options where we have needs (thank you previous staff) in the spring singing period.  I'm sure Wojo gave Lee and Miller his best shots but they didn't land for whatever reason.

To get all in a tizzy about this stuff seems like someone needs to step away from the keyboard and go outside and play some golf......that'll give him something real to stress about instead of shadows and speculation.

[Tugg Speedman]

Traci Carter set "tentative visits" for UConn and Memphis, but after coming to Marquette never took them.

Henry Ellenson never visited Kentucky after naming them in his final four.  (I think.)

Did so-called insiders on their board say those coaching staffs were not concerned about their MU visits and say they promised visits to them?  Did those coaching staffs have PLANS for those players ... plans they were so confident about that they were telling people that post on their fan message boards?  Did those insiders excite their message boards that those guys were coming to their schools?

It's not that Miller and Lee did not come to MU, it's how they did not come to MU.  I don't think they changed their minds.  I think we were never an option in the first place.  We were always safety schools.

It's ok we were not the option.  The problem is, according to Big Daddy, it appears the coaching staffs thought we were a realistic options and they were plans A & B.  In the meantime, I fear, they were not chasing realistic opportunities.  And that put them behind in grad transfer recruiting.

Again I hope I'm wrong we get some solid grad transfer announcements in the next few weeks.

The other option is everyone here had Big Daddy wrong and he did not have good info. (But as noted before, he had three pages of praise and amens after he posted so no one thought that)

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Is "only two options" a late entry to the meme contest or do you really believe this  -  you do realize you only know hearsay based on an Internet poster, right?  I mean BD typically has good info but parsing his words to the nth degree is probably not what he intended as he banged out a post on MU Scoop.

[mu03eng]

Did so-called insiders on their board say those coaching staffs were not concerned about their MU visits and say they promised visits to them?  Did those coaching staffs have PLANS for those players ... plans they were so confident about that they were telling people that post on their fan message boards?  Did those insiders excite their message boards that those guys were coming to their schools?

It's not that Miller and Lee did not come to MU, it's how they did not come to MU.  I don't think they changed their minds.  I think we were never an option in the first place.  We were always safety schools.

It's ok we were not the option.  The problem is, according to Big Daddy, it appears the coaching staffs thought we were a realistic options and they were plans A & B.  In the meantime, I fear, they were not chasing realistic opportunities.  And that put them behind in grad transfer recruiting.

Again I hope I'm wrong we get some solid grad transfer announcements in the next few weeks.

The other option is everyone here had Big Daddy wrong and he did not have good info. (But as noted before, he had three pages of praise and amens after he posted so no one thought that)

You are adding A + 2 and getting Theta.  You have literally no way of knowing if MU was a safety school or not but are hyperventilating because you have jumped at shadows and reached a conclusion that could exist amongst 34 other possible conclusions.

I don't know Big Daddy, I don't know where he got his information but I do know for a fact that Lee took action that would tell me he was considering attending Marquette.  No idea if we were ranked 1 or 5 or if Louisville just blew him away and he locked in while he could....and neither do you.  We could have been 5 on his list, we could have been 1, but we were in play, what more do you want?  Based on what I know, I'm very satisfied with the staff's performance to date and we'll see where we go from here.

[BallBoy]

It's not that Miller and Lee did not come to MU, it's how they did not come to MU.  I don't think they changed their minds.  I think we were never an option in the first place.  We were always safety schools.

Great so we were safety schools.  At the end of the day, the coaching staff looked at available options and said either we get Lee and Miller, Jucos or we don't waste the scholarship/energy. 

Getting a grad school transfer implies they are the starter from day one.  If you don't think they should start don't waste your energy recruiting them.  Right now, I have yet to see any grad school player saying I want to go to MU and Wojo didn't spend time looking at him.  Do you know that? 

Wojo has a limited amount of time.  He could focus on any and every grad school transfer or he could focus on the ones he feels we have a shot with or on 2016 players.  He laid out (according to Big Daddy) a defined plan.
1.  We get Lee and Miller
2.  We get Lee and/or Miller and a juco
3.  We get one/two jucos
4.  We bank our scholarships

I haven't heard the answer to number 3 yet so is there a reason for concern? No.  He stated his plan.  Did he say he was going to get a Grad Transfer and failed?  No.  He said he was targeting Lee and Miller.  Available Role vs level of interest.  Both Lee and Miller expressed a high level of interest.  Stating MU was one of 5 schools they would consider.  If you notice, all Big Daddy said was the coaching staff wasn't concerned that Lee would commit prior to taking all visits.  I would bet 99 out of 100 they aren't concerned because most recruits take all visits.  From what I have seen, no where does it say Wojo is unconcerned that we would land one of the two. 

[jesmu84]

Did Ms. Katie XYZ not even interview and take another job a few days later?  If so, then your management should held to account for misjudging.

Again (for the umpteenth time) if we assume Big Daddy was correct.  The coaches were not worried Lee was visiting other schools and said he would visit in early May.  Wrong on both accounts.  And again, if he actually visited, tweeted what a great place it was and then picked Loserville, I would have been fine with that.

What happens look like a misjudgement by the coaches.  We were never anything more than a safety school and it sounds like we did not have much of a back-up plan.

I hope I'm wrong and we announce some decent grad transfers and/or Jucos that can contribute next year.

Two big, big assumptions. You keep basing your whole argument on assumptions when you don't have all the facts. Big Daddy doesn't have all the facts either, btw.

[GGGG]

It's not that Miller and Lee did not come to MU, it's how they did not come to MU. 

Six pages debating something this nonsensical? 

[Tugg Speedman]

Great so we were safety schools.  At the end of the day, the coaching staff looked at available options and said either we get Lee and Miller, Jucos or we don't waste the scholarship/energy. 

Getting a grad school transfer implies they are the starter from day one.  If you don't think they should start don't waste your energy recruiting them.  Right now, I have yet to see any grad school player saying I want to go to MU and Wojo didn't spend time looking at him.  Do you know that? 

Wojo has a limited amount of time.  He could focus on any and every grad school transfer or he could focus on the ones he feels we have a shot with or on 2016 players.  He laid out (according to Big Daddy) a defined plan.
1.  We get Lee and Miller
2.  We get Lee and/or Miller and a juco
3.  We get one/two jucos
4.  We bank our scholarships

I haven't heard the answer to number 3 yet so is there a reason for concern? No.  He stated his plan.  Did he say he was going to get a Grad Transfer and failed?  No.  He said he was targeting Lee and Miller.  Available Role vs level of interest.  Both Lee and Miller expressed a high level of interest.  Stating MU was one of 5 schools they would consider.  If you notice, all Big Daddy said was the coaching staff wasn't concerned that Lee would commit prior to taking all visits.  I would bet 99 out of 100 they aren't concerned because most recruits take all visits.  From what I have seen, no where does it say Wojo is unconcerned that we would land one of the two. 

Wojo got Carlino last year so he recruits grad transfers.

We have 10 players.  They are good players and some of the services have us pre-season ranked.  If they all stay healthy, this argument is moot.  But you cannot assume that.

But we are rolling the dice with only 10 bodies.  One two down years and one or two injuries and we are in trouble.  Throw in inopportune sickness (flu) during the BE season and we are not dancing.   If we are down to 7 or 6 players, like this past season, during a critical stretch, it's all on Wojo for not filling out all available schollies with Jucos and/or Grad transfers.

[mu03eng]

Wojo got Carlino last year so he recruits grad transfers.

We have 10 players.  They are good players and some of the services have us pre-season ranked.  If they all stay healthy, this argument is moot.  But you cannot assume that.

But we are rolling the dice with only 10 bodies.  One two down years and one or two injuries and we are in trouble.  Throw in inopportune sickness (flu) during the BE season and we are not dancing.   If we are down to 7 or 6 players, like this past season, during a critical stretch, it's all on Wojo for not filling out all available schollies with Jucos and/or Grad transfers.

[BallBoy]

Wojo got Carlino last year so he recruits grad transfers.

We have 10 players.  They are good players and some of the services have us pre-season ranked.  If they all stay healthy, this argument is moot.  But you cannot assume that.

But we are rolling the dice with only 10 bodies.  One two down years and one or two injuries and we are in trouble.  Throw in inopportune sickness (flu) during the BE season and we are not dancing.   If we are down to 7 or 6 players, like this past season, during a critical stretch, it's all on Wojo for not filling out all available schollies with Jucos and/or Grad transfers.

Great. Wojo got Carlino. That is irrelevant to the conversation. No one said he doesn't recruit grad transfers.  He recruits good grad transfers which Carlino was. Carlino also started as per expectations. It made sense for both parties.  Do you think Carlino would have chosen Marquette if he didn't think he would start.

Right or wrong the two grad transfers based on skillset and mutual interest were Lee and Miller. He went after those players with the best shot of getting.

To flip the same argument back, come Big East season MU gets the flu bug. They go to end of the bench which contains two players who didn't play at their previous school and don't start/play much at MU and weren't good enough to dislodge at starter but choose MU because it was their only option. Are they going to get us into the tournament?  No.

No player who is a grad transfer is going to transfer to a school where we aren't going to play.  Unless you know of a player who wants to go to MU and not play or is good enough to start, wants MU and Wojo said not worth pursuing then your points are moot and your frustration is misguided.

[mu-rara]

6 pages of us debating Heisenberg idiocy against BigDaddy's history of valuable posts.

Heisenberg won.

[Tugg Speedman]

No player who is a grad transfer is going to transfer to a school where we aren't going to play.  Unless you know of a player who wants to go to MU and not play or is good enough to start, wants MU and Wojo said not worth pursuing then your points are moot and your frustration is misguided.

So MU is too good to find grad transfers?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It's not that Miller and Lee did not come to MU, it's how they did not come to MU.  I don't think they changed their minds.  I think we were never an option in the first place.  We were always safety schools.

You are wrong. Does that make you feel better? We were in the final 2 for Miller and final 5 for Lee (and from what I've heard we were above Gonzaga and Maryland). Miller was blown away in Storrs. He committed. Lee was blown away in Louisville. He committed. They aren't the first and they won't be the last. That is a risk you run when going up against the big boys. I for one I am glad we are taking those risks and not backing out when the big dogs get involved.

I do happen to agree with you on not banking scholarships. They are one year contracts, might as well fill them with projects. Keep if they work out, cut em if they don't. It seems Wojo doesn't believe in that practice, which is fine. A lot of coaches don't.

And for godsakes, Wojo has contacted people besides Lee and Miller. Two have been made public, Durand Johnson and Tomasz Gielo, others have not. Wojo is also pursuing some traditional transfers as well. Rowsey and Burnett are two names that have come up.

Throughout this thread you have acted as if Wojo doesn't know what he is doing. I don't think you appreciate how arrogant and ignorant that comes off to the other posters here. That is why people have reacted so negatively towards you in this thread.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

You are wrong. Does that make you feel better? We were in the final 2 for Miller and final 5 for Lee (and from what I've heard we were above Gonzaga and Maryland). Miller was blown away in Storrs. He committed. Lee was blown away in Louisville. He committed. They aren't the first and they won't be the last. That is a risk you run when going up against the big boys. I for one I am glad we are taking those risks and not backing out when the big dogs get involved.

I do happen to agree with you on not banking scholarships. They are one year contracts, might as well fill them with projects. Keep if they work out, cut em if they don't. It seems Wojo doesn't believe in that practice, which is fine. A lot of coaches don't.

And for godsakes, Wojo has contacted people besides Lee and Miller. Two have been made public, Durand Johnson and Tomasz Gielo, others have not. Wojo is also pursuing some traditional transfers as well. Rowsey and Burnett are two names that have come up.

Throughout this thread you have acted as if Wojo doesn't know what he is doing. I don't think you appreciate how arrogant and ignorant that comes off to the other posters here. That is why people have reacted so negatively towards you in this thread.

+100

Well done. Summarizes things to a T!

/Thread

[Tugg Speedman]

You are wrong. Does that make you feel better? We were in the final 2 for Miller and final 5 for Lee (and from what I've heard we were above Gonzaga and Maryland). Miller was blown away in Storrs. He committed. Lee was blown away in Louisville. He committed. They aren't the first and they won't be the last. That is a risk you run when going up against the big boys. I for one I am glad we are taking those risks and not backing out when the big dogs get involved.

I do happen to agree with you on not banking scholarships. They are one year contracts, might as well fill them with projects. Keep if they work out, cut em if they don't. It seems Wojo doesn't believe in that practice, which is fine. A lot of coaches don't.

And for godsakes, Wojo has contacted people besides Lee and Miller. Two have been made public, Durand Johnson and Tomasz Gielo, others have not. Wojo is also pursuing some traditional transfers as well. Rowsey and Burnett are two names that have come up.

Throughout this thread you have acted as if Wojo doesn't know what he is doing. I don't think you appreciate how arrogant and ignorant that comes off to the other posters here. That is why people have reacted so negatively towards you in this thread.

Ok, another insider heard from ... hope you don't have the same sources than Big Daddy.

All I want is Wojo to fill out the roster.   

Sultan is correct, this thread has been stupid for pages as it seems no one reads what I write because they are too busy calling me an idiot and that I'm wrong .... and then just repeat everything I just wrote in their own words.

[Galway Eagle]

Ok, another insider heard from ... hope you don't have the same sources than Big Daddy.

All I want is Wojo to fill out the roster.   

Sultan is correct, this thread has been stupid for pages as it seems no one reads what I write because they are too busy calling me an idiot and that I'm wrong .... and then just repeat everything I just wrote in their own words.

At least you're getting the clicks!