Big Daddy wrote ...
3) Damien Lee is the #1 target and they do have a commitment for a visit in early May, just not a date. They know exactly when he is visiting the other schools and like that they are the last one to be visited. There is a relationship between DL and one of the staff and there is mutual interest and communication. They expect that Lee will come for a visit..did not seem to be too concerned that he will commit before visiting.
4) Miller is #2 target and again there is mutual interest, but I got the impression that they actually feel better about Lee than Miller.
I'm not concerned that we lost DL. I'm concerned how we lost him. It is apparent that we were never really an option for him. He did not come for a visit. We were probably his safety school.
What is concerning is what BD said above. The coaching staff had as their #1 target someone that wasn't a realistic option. They were not concerned about him committing before he visits when they should have been concerned about exactly that. Had he visited, considered and then picked something else it would have been better than what actually happened. At least if he visited we were a serious option and not a safety school.
Similarly option #2 (Miller) was someone that was also not a realistic option. Again we were merely a safety school and the coaching staff thought we were more than that.
Should we be concerned that the coaching staff is having a hard time gauging interest? If so, does this matter? Tell me where I'm wrong.
Maybe he just fell in love with Louisville on his visit?
R-E-L-A-X
All the experts say he's recruited one of the best classes in the nation, Why would that be cause for concern?Cue up the 1994 Travers Stakes, and I'll show you cause for CONCERN...
Nobody is really addressing Heisenberg's point.
I think Heisenberg's point is that we should be alarmed that Wojo was so oblivious to the actual prospect of landing Lee. According to Heisenberg, who reads Big Daddy as reading Wojo as saying that we had a really, really good shot at Lee. However, the fact that he committed to Lville so quickly shows that, in actuality, we never had a shot at all. Put another way, if MU actually had a real shot at Lee, he would not have committed to Lville so quickly.
FWIW, maybe it's a concern, but if it is, it is a very very small one, IMO.
I don't see how this is any more oblivious than Izzo and Cal making a strong play for Ellenson.
Show us a coach who hits 1000.
So did Wojo never have a shot? I doubt that. I do believe they got positive feedback from Lee's camp, which got them in this position in the first place. This is just another litmus test for a young staff. Will they still be able to land two grad transfers like they were hoping for or do they have a JUCO ready to commit? Or are they moving on to 2016/17, which is where efforts seemed to be this week?
the only thing i am concerned about is hoping that wojo had a plan after losing out on miller and lee
Did the Arizona staff make the same mistake? Come on. As one staff member said to me: "He is a Hall of Fame coach. Not surprised."
We described Lee as our number 1 option while he was about to board a plane to AZ and Louisville. You don't see a concern?No, because all that means was he was our first choice at that time. Wojo has lost out on a lot of number one options, most of which we never hear about, because they quickly say they are not interested.
We described Lee as our number 1 option while he was about to board a plane to AZ and Louisville. You don't see a concern?
Right now Marquette has 10 scholarship athletes with 7 either freshmen or sophomores and no seniors. I can understand where a grad transfer would be apprehensive of joining a youthful team where he would not only have to try to fit in, but also become possibly the team leader.
I'm fine with going with these 10 players for next year, although I'd like to see an 11th player for depth and some experience.
Heisenberg = Kenoshawarrior.
Take a puff of the inhaler. It'll be alright.
I would have said Heisenberg = Chicos when it comes to trying to create mountains out of molehills.
This thread is hilarious.
5) No poster word should ever be taken as gospel. Not even Big Daddy's. Every poster and every so called source puts their own slant and speculation on information they hear
This is what this thread is about ... I read Big Daddy's post and he said ...And I am still not seeing the reason for the angst. Coaches and programs miss on recruits all of the time. Every time somebody commits, 4 programs missed. Two high level graduate transfers chose blue bloods. Meh.
3) Damien Lee is the #1 target and they do have a commitment for a visit in early May, just not a date. They know exactly when he is visiting the other schools and like that they are the last one to be visited. There is a relationship between DL and one of the staff and there is mutual interest and communication. They expect that Lee will come for a visit..did not seem to be too concerned that he will commit before visiting.
4) Miller is #2 target and again there is mutual interest, but I got the impression that they actually feel better about Lee than Miller.
5) After that the top targets are two JUCO players. Plan 1 is Lee and Miller, plan #2 is lee or miller and 1 JUco plan 3 - two Jucos. We are not heavily recruiting any other HS seniors.
Yes I got excited reading all this because I believed BD "knows." None of it has happened and it only took 8 days for it to fall apart.
2) From what I had heard, Miller was down to MU and UConn. He visited UConn first and was similarly blown away. I wouldn't count him out either. Coach is definitely watching this Ollie to OKC situation very closely.
6) I don't believe JUCOs are truly an option
In recruiting plan=goal. So goal #1 was Lee and Miller. Didn't pan out; it happens. Goal #2 was either Lee or Miller. Hasn't happened but like TAMU said keep an eye on OKC and Ollie. So what's wrong with these goals?
I suppose Wojo could target only sure things, but I'd rather he go after the best realistic targets than crappy players who are "sure things" to ride on the end of the bench.
Fun fact: the 2003 Final Four team only had 10 scholarship players and one senior, three juniors, two sophomores, and four freshman. Next year's roster currently has 10 players with five freshmen, two sophomores, three juniors and no seniors. Not saying #Houston is a #donedeal; just something that occurred to my me.
Big Daddy wrote ...
3) Damien Lee is the #1 target and they do have a commitment for a visit in early May, just not a date. They know exactly when he is visiting the other schools and like that they are the last one to be visited. There is a relationship between DL and one of the staff and there is mutual interest and communication. They expect that Lee will come for a visit..did not seem to be too concerned that he will commit before visiting.
4) Miller is #2 target and again there is mutual interest, but I got the impression that they actually feel better about Lee than Miller.
I'm not concerned that we lost DL. I'm concerned how we lost him. It is apparent that we were never really an option for him. He did not come for a visit. We were probably his safety school.
What is concerning is what BD said above. The coaching staff had as their #1 target someone that wasn't a realistic option. They were not concerned about him committing before he visits when they should have been concerned about exactly that. Had he visited, considered and then picked something else it would have been better than what actually happened. At least if he visited we were a serious option and not a safety school.
Similarly option #2 (Miller) was someone that was also not a realistic option. Again we were merely a safety school and the coaching staff thought we were more than that.
Should we be concerned that the coaching staff is having a hard time gauging interest? If so, does this matter? Tell me where I'm wrong.
Heisenberg = Kenoshawarrior.
Take a puff of the inhaler. It'll be alright.
A lot of wrong here. Just because a player didn't commit doesn't mean they didn't have interest. It also doesn't mean MU didn't have a chance. Unless you have some inside knowledge from our coaching staff or either of these recruits, you're just speculating a whole lot without any real information.
Quite the opposite ...
The guy with inside info said:
* Lee committed to coming on a visit. He did not
* the coaches were unconcerned about him visiting other schools before MU. They should have been
* list three different plans. They did not make 8 days.
The thing that no one wants to come to grips with is most what BD wrote about recruiting was wrong and it only took 8 days to show it was wrong.
Say you are an insider, get everything wrong ... you're "gold"
Point out the so-called insider gets it wrong ... you're the second coming of Ners
Quite the opposite ...
The guy with inside info said:
* Lee committed to coming on a visit. He did not
* the coaches were unconcerned about him visiting other schools before MU. They should have been
* list three different plans. They did not make 8 days.
The thing that no one wants to come to grips with is most what BD wrote about recruiting was wrong and it only took 8 days to show it was wrong.
Say you are an insider, get everything wrong ... you're "gold"
Point out the so-called insider gets it wrong ... you're the second coming of Ners
This board reminds me of this bipolar girl I dated once. Grab her a coke zero instead of a diet coke and she went into full on meltdown.
Quite the opposite ...
The guy with inside info said:
* Lee committed to coming on a visit. He did not
* the coaches were unconcerned about him visiting other schools before MU. They should have been
* list three different plans. They did not make 8 days.
The thing that no one wants to come to grips with is most what BD wrote about recruiting was wrong and it only took 8 days to show it was wrong.
Say you are an insider, get everything wrong ... you're "gold"
Point out the so-called insider gets it wrong ... you're the second coming of Ners
I hope here name wasn't Cybil...
He got nothing wrong. You just don't know how to read, comprehend, and think rationally.
If this is how you feel, then name the thread "Why I have concerns about Big Daddy's Info" or just make some comments in Big Daddy's original thread. Don't frame it as concern that our coaching staff is incompetent.
That was/is my question. Did the coaching staff misjudge Lee/Miller or did BD get it wrong?
Or did Lee and/or Miller change their minds.
Then the coaching staff should have anticipated this might have happened and not been "unconcerned" about other visits, pressed harder for a visit to MU and not been giving BD "plans" for events that might not have happened.
Then the coaching staff should have anticipated this might have happened and not been "unconcerned" about other visits, pressed harder for a visit to MU and not been giving BD "plans" for events that might not have happened.
Either way, it sounds like they had contingency plans. BD said "Plan 1 is Lee and Miller, plan #2 is lee or miller and 1 JUco plan 2 - two Jucos." Presumably, that should have been "plan 3 - two Jucos", but regardless, there were other plans in case they lost both (which they did).
I know they have contacted other graduate transfers and had done so before Lee and Miller committed elsewhere.
I also know there were a lot of JUCOs they had contacted back in November, December, and January. I don't know where those relationships are at now.
The past week they were out watching HS kids. McKinley Wright, a 2017 prospect in Minnesota, as well as this weekend they are out watching AAU (this is one of two periods in April coaches are allowed to watch). That says nothing to the phone calls that have been going on or behind the scenes things.
I have no doubt there are still graduate transfers still in play. But the guys they are after mostly seem to be the guys that announced their decisions later, mid-April or so. Those guys haven't yet scheduled other visits or listed favorites. Until that starts to leak out, there's only so much information anyone can give you.
That was/is my question. Did the coaching staff misjudge Lee/Miller or did BD get it wrong?
This is what this thread is about ... I read Big Daddy's post and he said ...
3) Damien Lee is the #1 target and they do have a commitment for a visit in early May, just not a date. They know exactly when he is visiting the other schools and like that they are the last one to be visited. There is a relationship between DL and one of the staff and there is mutual interest and communication. They expect that Lee will come for a visit..did not seem to be too concerned that he will commit before visiting.
4) Miller is #2 target and again there is mutual interest, but I got the impression that they actually feel better about Lee than Miller.
5) After that the top targets are two JUCO players. Plan 1 is Lee and Miller, plan #2 is lee or miller and 1 JUco plan 3 - two Jucos. We are not heavily recruiting any other HS seniors.
Yes I got excited reading all this because I believed BD "knows." None of it has happened and it only took 8 days for it to fall apart.
So maybe you should be more concerned about taking as gospel what folks say here than Wojo and the coaching staff. What short memories we have when we all thought it was a DONEDEAL.
When you plan, that means one of these options is going to happen. Plan 1 is supposed to be the most likely, #2 next most likely. They were not goals, or ideals or scenarios, they were plans.
Again, what I'm assuming is BD accurately and correctly conveyed what the coaches are thinking. Because if he did, I'm concerned that the coaches are busy making plans that are not happening. Put bluntly, they are not sizing up situations properly.
Big Daddy wrote ...
3) Damien Lee is the #1 target and they do have a commitment for a visit in early May, just not a date. They know exactly when he is visiting the other schools and like that they are the last one to be visited. There is a relationship between DL and one of the staff and there is mutual interest and communication. They expect that Lee will come for a visit..did not seem to be too concerned that he will commit before visiting.
4) Miller is #2 target and again there is mutual interest, but I got the impression that they actually feel better about Lee than Miller.
I'm not concerned that we lost DL. I'm concerned how we lost him. It is apparent that we were never really an option for him. He did not come for a visit. We were probably his safety school.
What is concerning is what BD said above. The coaching staff had as their #1 target someone that wasn't a realistic option. They were not concerned about him committing before he visits when they should have been concerned about exactly that. Had he visited, considered and then picked something else it would have been better than what actually happened. At least if he visited we were a serious option and not a safety school.
Similarly option #2 (Miller) was someone that was also not a realistic option. Again we were merely a safety school and the coaching staff thought we were more than that.
Should we be concerned that the coaching staff is having a hard time gauging interest? If so, does this matter? Tell me where I'm wrong.
Stop. This contrarion for the sake of one is just tiring.
Inside information isn't perfect. It certainly isn't complete. They were targetting Lee and Miller. I'm sure they pressed hard for visits in both cases. Those weren't the only people they were talking to.
Creating controversies where none exist.
Finally, Big Daddy wrote Damien Lee is the #1 target and they do have a commitment for a visit in early May That's a little more certain and why I found it so concerning.
MUWarrior69 ... see the post immediately above. See how people tie themselves into knots and the lengths they do to say I'm making a mountain out of molehill. All these people could get jobs in corporate or political communications telling you that obvious statements don't mean what they say.
Then go look at the "Program Update" post that Big Daddy started and tell me who said they were making a mountain out of molehill that Lee was coming to MU. Quite the opposite they were breathlessly getting themselves worked into a frenzy.
You sure about this? You wrote on the previous page they spent the last week recruiting HS players. Additionally TAMU, another person that seems to have "inside" info, seems to be "throwing ideas on the wall" suggesting their is not plan. Further TAMU disagrees with Big Daddy about the importance of JUCOs (BD says they are looking at JUCOs, TAMU says they are really not, save 2 or 3 guys at most)
That leaves us with two options. Either they don't have a plan or all the "insiders" that post here really know nothing.
Finally, Big Daddy wrote Damien Lee is the #1 target and they do have a commitment for a visit in early May That's a little more certain and why I found it so concerning.
Frankly, if BD never posted I would have given this a second thought. It's BD post that got me asking.
Big Daddy wrote ...
3) Damien Lee is the #1 target and they do have a commitment for a visit in early May, just not a date. They know exactly when he is visiting the other schools and like that they are the last one to be visited. There is a relationship between DL and one of the staff and there is mutual interest and communication. They expect that Lee will come for a visit..did not seem to be too concerned that he will commit before visiting.
4) Miller is #2 target and again there is mutual interest, but I got the impression that they actually feel better about Lee than Miller.
I'm not concerned that we lost DL. I'm concerned how we lost him. It is apparent that we were never really an option for him. He did not come for a visit. We were probably his safety school.
What is concerning is what BD said above. The coaching staff had as their #1 target someone that wasn't a realistic option. They were not concerned about him committing before he visits when they should have been concerned about exactly that. Had he visited, considered and then picked something else it would have been better than what actually happened. At least if he visited we were a serious option and not a safety school.
Similarly option #2 (Miller) was someone that was also not a realistic option. Again we were merely a safety school and the coaching staff thought we were more than that.
Should we be concerned that the coaching staff is having a hard time gauging interest? If so, does this matter? Tell me where I'm wrong.
Wouldn't it be more concerning if they were NOT targeting Lee?
I mean, if MU never even mentioned him, never got mentioned for him, and Wojo didn't even try, wouldn't there be a thread titled:
"I'm concerned that Wojo doesn't think MU can land big time players" or something similar?
If you want to be "concerned", be concerned when MU is competing for recruits with Bradley, Southern Illinois, Drake, Chicago State, etc. THAT'S when you can start to be concerned.
Be concerned when they sign Kevin Menard. Be concerned when they sign Krunti Hester. Be concerned when they sign Yousef Mbao.
Don't be concerned when a kid opts for Louisville instead of MU.
Wouldn't it be more concerning if they were NOT targeting Lee?
I mean, if MU never even mentioned him, never got mentioned for him, and Wojo didn't even try, wouldn't there be a thread titled:
"I'm concerned that Wojo doesn't think MU can land big time players" or something similar?
If you want to be "concerned", be concerned when MU is competing for recruits with Bradley, Southern Illinois, Drake, Chicago State, etc. THAT'S when you can start to be concerned.
Be concerned when they sign Kevin Menard. Be concerned when they sign Krunti Hester. Be concerned when they sign Yousef Mbao.
Don't be concerned when a kid opts for Louisville instead of MU.
If you want to be "concerned", be concerned when MU is competing for recruits with Bradley, Southern Illinois, Drake, Chicago State, etc. THAT'S when you can start to be concerned.
Quite the opposite ...I am not sure why Big Daddy is considered a font of wisdom. Just another guy who has a small amount of access that puts his own spin on things. Mr. Heisenberg is correct to point out the issues for discussion here.
The guy with inside info said:
* Lee committed to coming on a visit. He did not
* the coaches were unconcerned about him visiting other schools before MU. They should have been
* list three different plans. They did not make 8 days.
The thing that no one wants to come to grips with is most what BD wrote about recruiting was wrong and it only took 8 days to show it was wrong.
Say you are an insider, get everything wrong ... you're "gold"
Point out the so-called insider gets it wrong ... you're the second coming of Ners
Can't judge Steve's coachin' one iota from what we saw last season. The cat had nothin', as in absolute zero, to work with. Wait on passin' judgement 'til he gets his own recruits on the court, ai na?
Can't judge Steve's coachin' one iota from what we saw last season. The cat had nothin', as in absolute zero, to work with. Wait on passin' judgement 'til he gets his own recruits on the court, ai na?
The last thing anyone should be worried about with regard to Wojo and coaching staff thus far is their recruiting ability. Wojo has been the exact opposite of what I thought we'd be getting: A very good bench coach, yet suspect recruiter. Been lights out recruiting. His coaching/personnel management last season left A LOT to be desired.
Certainly fair. Though I feel Wojo had a decent amount of talent to work with last season, just made bad playing time decisions/allocations. It could also be said Buzz had virtually nothing to work with his 2nd year on the job and he guided us to an NCAA berth in the REAL Big East with the midgets and no player taller than 6'6" as I recall. Yet that year certainly showed Buzz could coach - you knew if he could extract an NCAA birth out of that team, he'd be able to do really good things with his own talent later on down the line.
Certainly fair. Though I feel Wojo had a decent amount of talent to work with last season, just made bad playing time decisions/allocations. It could also be said Buzz had virtually nothing to work with his 2nd year on the job and he guided us to an NCAA berth in the REAL Big East with the midgets and no player taller than 6'6" as I recall. Yet that year certainly showed Buzz could coach - you knew if he could extract an NCAA birth out of that team, he'd be able to do really good things with his own talent later on down the line.Butler NBA star,Hayward first round draft choice, Buycks finsihed this season on NBA team plus DJO is not a team that did not have talent. It lacked size and experience. Having said that I was not impressed with Wojo's coaching last year. However, he was a rookie coach and the players had to adjust to his style.
Certainly fair. Though I feel Wojo had a decent amount of talent to work with last season, just made bad playing time decisions/allocations. It could also be said Buzz had virtually nothing to work with his 2nd year on the job and he guided us to an NCAA berth in the REAL Big East with the midgets and no player taller than 6'6" as I recall. Yet that year certainly showed Buzz could coach - you knew if he could extract an NCAA birth out of that team, he'd be able to do really good things with his own talent later on down the line.
Welcome back Ners
Let me see if I have this right:
1) We land a recruiting class that everyone in college basketball says is a Top 10 class -- maybe better.
2) We are in the running for some dude named Damion Lee who would fill a need. In effect, we're topping off a wonderful recruiting class with a big "get" if we get him.
3) Some dude named Big Daddy thinks it is a done deal and says so on Scoop, having 50 people yell "Amen."
4) Damion, who is a fifth year senior and has one year left, elects to go to a program at Loserville with a shot at a Sweet 16 or better next year.
5) All the while, we're an unproven group of freshmen and a sophomore coach who lost 19 games last year.
6) So we become chicken little because Damion goes elsewhere and we suddenly think our coach is Bob Dukiet risen from the dead?
Just want to make sure.
CHILL OUT PEOPLE!!!!!!!
Fairly accurate, except, I do not subscribe to the banking schollies is a failure theory. Yeah, I know, that is not the CW on this board, but if there are no quality players that would be a fit, then bank and concentrate for next year.
Well you did not get it right.
Let me take it from the top again.
We have 10 players for next year. Currently the star recruit has his hand in a cast and the starting center has his arm in a sling. So we need bodies for next year. That has to be the highest priority.
Big Daddy is generally recognized as someone that is close to the program. He goes to the banquet and says he talks to the coaches. He lays out their thinking and plans on getting two of the most highly thought of graduate transfers. He also details their level of confidence, which was pretty high.
The one thing you did get right is the 50 amens because of Bigg Daddy's reputation as an insider.
Then within 8 days after his post, all these details and plans blow up. The grad transfers go elsewhere without ever visiting. It looks like we were never really an option in the first place, or maybe a safety school.
I post I'm concerned that the coaches misjudged these possible recruits and were left starting all over. I'm concerned that this misjudgment puts next season as risk, as one of the biggest determinants to next seasons sucess is going to be how the fill the three open schollies. Let me say this differently, I would feel a lot better about next season if Burton, Taylor and Noskawiak were still on the roster. Replacing them on NEXT YEAR's TEAM is critical.
I also suggest that maybe Big Daddy was just wrong about his assessment and it was not a reflection of what the coaches thought.
What followed was 4 pages of attacking me, defending a post with nothing right from Big Daddy and not addressing the issues of who is going to fill the final three spots.
Banking a schollie represents a failure and banking all three is a 3x failure.
In the subsequent days we have seen little to nothing about them getting more players for next year. Doesn't mean they are not trying, just not seeing it.
Fairly accurate, except, I do not subscribe to the banking schollies is a failure theory. Yeah, I know, that is not the CW on this board, but if there are no quality players that would be a fit, then bank and concentrate for next year.
Let me clarify banking schollies
Keeping one in case a Luke Fischer quality type mid-season transfer pops up is fine.
Regarding the other two. Take a grad transfer. They are a one year rental. They will be better than walk-ons to fill out the roster. Their is little to no downside in a one-year rental.
So banking two of the three instead of getting a grad transfer is a failure.
Butler NBA star,Hayward first round draft choice, Buycks finsihed this season on NBA team plus DJO is not a team that did not have talent. It lacked size and experience. Having said that I was not impressed with Wojo's coaching last year. However, he was a rookie coach and the players had to adjust to his style.
There certainly wasn't a Lazar caliber player on this past year's team as an upperclassmen. However, just because DJO, Buycks went on to get a cup of coffee in the league, they both were in their 1st year of D-1 ball - DJO a sophomore and Buycks a Junior. Jimmy of course was in his 2nd year of D-1 ball. That midgets team was tiny, and young. Last season we had Duane turn in a solid Red Shirt freshman year. Had Carlino a 5th year senior. Had a Top 50 big man in Luke in his sophomore year. Returned an All-Big East Freshman in Deonte Burton.
We missed the NIT last season, and finished with our worst record in 50 years. In the watered down Big East. 4 players have transferred out of the program in the last 12 months. We have 3 open scholarships. All that said, I'm excited about the recruits we have coming in - yet we need to show some progress on the court and win this season at a decent clip for Wojo to continue to be able to be effective on the recruiting trail.
Let me clarify banking scholliesNo it is not. A failure is wasting a scholarship on a player that will not help next year or in the the future. Buzz was good at filing scholarships that ended up being players that transferred out. Wojo said last year he would not just take a body. I think that is good strategy and him changing his mind would be a signal that he does not believe he will recruit well for 2016. We have 10 scholarship players and three walkons, which is more than enough to practive, Generally only 8 players are going to play significant minutes. No need to recruit a player now that has no chance of cracking the top 8. I would take a one year transfer, but I agree a player who is not going to start is not likely to transfer to MU.
Keeping one in case a Luke Fischer quality type mid-season transfer pops up is fine.
Regarding the other two. Take a grad transfer. They are a one year rental. They will be better than walk-ons to fill out the roster. Their is little to no downside in a one-year rental.
So banking two of the three instead of getting a grad transfer is a failure.
No it is not. A failure is wasting a scholarship on a player that will not help next year or in the the future. Buzz was good at filing scholarships that ended up being players that transferred out. Wojo said last year he would not just take a body. I think that is good strategy and him changing his mind would be a signal that he does not believe he will recruit well for 2016. We have 10 scholarship players and three walkons, which is more than enough to practive, Generally only 8 players are going to play significant minutes. No need to recruit a player now that has no chance of cracking the top 8. I would take a one year transfer, but I agree a player who is not going to start is not likely to transfer to MU.
No it is not. A failure is wasting a scholarship on a player that will not help next year or in the the future. Buzz was good at filing scholarships that ended up being players that transferred out. Wojo said last year he would not just take a body. I think that is good strategy and him changing his mind would be a signal that he does not believe he will recruit well for 2016. We have 10 scholarship players and three walkons, which is more than enough to practive, Generally only 8 players are going to play significant minutes. No need to recruit a player now that has no chance of cracking the top 8. I would take a one year transfer, but I agree a player who is not going to start is not likely to transfer to MU.
Couldn't disagree more. That's not the way of college athletics these days. Use your damn scholorships. If the guy doesn't work out, so be it. Literally over 1,000 D1 players transfer every year - it's the way it works.
Fill your scholorships. I'm not advocating for Wojo to take on some guy that isn't a D1 caliber player but there are plenty of grad transfers and traditional transfers still out there that could contribute. Being em in. Last thing we need is playing w 6 scholorship players again.
How many scholarships do NCAA D1 schools get? 13
How many freshman through juniors will MU have next year if they don't hand out another scholarship to a non grad transfer? 10
That leaves 3 scholarships for the 2016 class and if Marquette gets a transfer like Andrew Rowsey who visits this week(?), that leaves 2 for the 2016 class.
If there aren't any grad transfers or JUCO's who Wojo feels can make the team better after Lee and Miller, why should he hand out a scholarship?
Others have said it here. Don't give out scholarships just to give out scholarships.
And when we are down to six functioning players next year, like we were at one point last season, remember this post.
Again Grad transfers are eligible next year and do not prevent recruiting 2016 freshman.
Fill out the roster (again with Grad transfers) as best you can because you never know. Do not roll the dice with 10 players.
And when we are down to six functioning players next year, like we were at one point last season, remember this post.If we end up with 6 functioning players next year and it is partly do to two players transferring at mid-season than Wojo should be fired. Injuries are a crap shoot, but players transferring indicate a problem. That problem includes recruiting players that are not good enough to play or do not fit your system. The idea of filling the scholarships and then cutting players if they do not work does not sit well with me. Please no more transfers.
Again Grad transfers are eligible next year and do not prevent recruiting 2016 freshman.
Fill out the roster (again with Grad transfers) as best you can because you never know. Do not roll the dice with 10 players.
And when we are down to six functioning players next year, like we were at one point last season, remember this post.
Again Grad transfers are eligible next year and do not prevent recruiting 2016 freshman.
Fill out the roster (again with Grad transfers) as best you can because you never know. Do not roll the dice with 10 players.
Grad transfers want to go somewhere where they can start or at least play major minutes. Other than Lee, Miller and maybe a couple other frontcourt players, give me some names and after that, tell me how they would fit.
Look at Wisconsin this past year. They had 12 on scholarship and redshirted Happ and Hill giving them 10 scholarship players available. The 10th player, Riley Dearring, played a total of 39 minutes all year.
Grad transfers want to go somewhere where they can start or at least play major minutes. Other than Lee, Miller and maybe a couple other frontcourt players, give me some names and after that, tell me how they would fit and better yet, do they want to come to a team coming off of the season they came off of without any seniors when they can go somewhere and play for an NCAA berth with an experienced team?
Look at Wisconsin this past year. They had 12 on scholarship and redshirted Happ and Hill giving them 10 scholarship players available. The 10th player, Riley Dearring, played a total of 39 minutes all year.
Grad transfers want to go somewhere where they can start or at least play major minutes. Other than Lee, Miller and maybe a couple other frontcourt players, give me some names and after that, tell me how they would fit and better yet, do they want to come to a team coming off of the season they came off of without any seniors when they can go somewhere and play for an NCAA berth with an experienced team?
Look at Wisconsin this past year. They had 12 on scholarship and redshirted Happ and Hill giving them 10 scholarship players available. The 10th player, Riley Dearring, played a total of 39 minutes all year.
You cannot play an empty seat. Their is no next man up.
Also, there is no next man up.I do not care about proper English on this site. However, if you assume that eight are going to get significant minutes, then we have two players to be the next man up.
I really don't want to get into a battle of words with Heisenberg, so I'll be relatively brief.
Most of us believe that Wojo has a great "start" on the recruiting battles. The incoming class for next year is fantastic. But National Champions aren't built in one year (most of the time, anyway) and no matter who we bring in, we will have weaknesses that our enemies will exploit in 2016-2017. Those weaknesses may be as simple as freshmen inexperience or as complex as injuries and lack of depth.
Damion Lee, no matter how good he is, was not going to change the fact that we have weaknesses in our team for next year. He would have offered senior leadership, but he would not have changed the fact that a good hunk of our team has a lot to learn to be great at the college level.
It's easy to forget that when the Hillbilly folded, the cupboard was bare. Our guys that left, including STjr, Dawson, Mayo and Burton, didn't fit with the new regieme. Our recruits that were highly regarded, for the most part, jumped like rats off a ship. That will be fixed but it will take time.
That's why, when I saw the headline "Why I'm Concerned About Wojo/Coaching Staff," I was thinking, "Say What?" If we're 15-15 three years from now and not been to the NCAA and not followed-up this year's class with another good one and another, then, OK. Until then, chill out.
Here are the cliff notes ... either Big Daddy was wrong in what he wrote or the coaches misjudged Lee and Miller and that left them scrambling to fill out next year's roster with Grad transfers. Note I said "concerned" not that they failed. I'm only talking about next year and the ability to find one or two more Carlinos is critical to next season's success (as Carlino was critical to what little success we had last season).
If we end up with 6 functioning players next year and it is partly do to two players transferring at mid-season than Wojo should be fired. Injuries are a crap shoot, but players transferring indicate a problem. That problem includes recruiting players that are not good enough to play or do not fit your system. The idea of filling the scholarships and then cutting players if they do not work does not sit well with me. Please no more transfers.
This paragraph just underscores that you don't understand the way things work in CBB today. This isn't the 1980s anymore. If kids aren't happy where they are for any number of reasons (1) playing time; 2) personal reasons; 3) dislike teammates; 4) dislike coaches; 5) dislike school, weather, city; etc, etc.), they will transfer. It IS that simple. ]
Get over transfers. They're going to happen most years. It is what it is.
I am confused. I never got the impression that Lee or Miller were a #donedeal from Big Daddy's post. Nor did I get the impression that most scoopers thought that was the case. Most were just appreciative that BD posted some nuggets about almost every returning player, incoming player, or major recruiting target. Some rosterbating took place but that was fantasizing about what could happen, not necessarily would happen.
Here is my interpretation of what BD said:
"Plan A is Lee and Miller"= The coaching staff's ideal a scenario (a possibility not a given)
"Plan B is either Lee or Miller"= If we can't get both, hopefully we at least we get one.
"Plan C is Jucos"=no names so I never really thought there was an ironclad plan C
"Lee plans to visit MU"=coaching staff still trying to set up visit
"Coaches confident they can get a commit if Lee visits since MU would be last"= coaches confident in their ability to close on recruits but no guarantee to get Lee or Miller...better than the alternative, which is lacking confidence...but I've seen a ton of recruits with all 5 visits scheduled that commit before completing all 5...so unless/until Lee or Miller visits I'm not expecting a commit to MU to be the final result...neither visited MU...had either visited MU then our chances for a commit go way up...being the last visit means no one blew Lee or Miller away and MU has a chance to beat them...Louisville and UConn blew them away and ended up being the last visits since no other visits were made
I also have no idea who BD's source or sources are. Coaches? Players? Parents of players? The video coordinator? Could be just about anyone. I never was under the impression that the info came straight from directly from Wojo or the assistant coaches. Probably a combination of a variety of sources. Sources that have knowledge of what is going on or may have heard things about what is going on. BD has a good track record of his sources providing good info. But none of that info said "Lee will commit" or "Miller will commit". BD informed us about the process, nothing more. Did others see it this way or do you guys interpret things the way Heisenberg did?
Hi Ted,
Tomacz Gielo would fit perfectly. 6-9, 225 athletic power forward. He also has a sweet stroke from 3. We get him, then we have four bigs 6-9 and up, and a three point threat.
This is a grad student who can make a real impact on an invigorated team, with a great pedigree, a well known coach, in a major conference.
I know I sound like I'm oversimplifying, but if we get him, he fills two holes and makes us a legit BEAST contender.
Let's not get into dissembling the word "plan" again. When someone in your office says they heard the boss has a "plan" do you think it is a mere "suggestion"? Yes the definition includes suggestion but no one thinks that when they hear plan?
So we had one person (now called naginIF) attack me after admitting he did not even read what I wrote, just saw my name and started a new thread announcing I was an idiot without barely understanding the topic.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=47446.0
Now after 5 pages you admit you still want to fight with me based on your (inaccurate) read of the headline without actually understanding what was said here. You already posted a complete misread of this post on the previous page and this post really has nothing to do with this topic here.
When it comes to hiring an outside person, yes a plan is merely a suggestion. For example, a TV station I used to work for held a quarterly meeting where the station GM said "We plan to hire Mrs. Katie XYZ to be our new female news anchor." But no contract was signed and Mrs. Katie XYZ ended up choosing between two other job offers in major markets. So the GM's plan did not come to fruition. Recruiting is the same since you have a coach "trying to hire" a recruit. What the coach plans and the recruit decides are not always the same thing.
You just flat out chose the wrong definition of plan in this case. The definition of plan you are using would be akin to the station GM saying "We plan to eliminate our 4 pm newscast." In that case I agree that the plan is a near certainty. When words have a variety of definitions it is important to pick the right definition for the situation.
Mrs. Katie XYZ verballed, then decommitted. Job stayed open a little longer but a strong hire was eventually made.
For the umpteenth time I am not concerned. I've seen countless recruits schedule 5 visits and commit after taking just one or two. Lee didn't even have a date finalized. The whole time it looked to me like MU was in the top 5 but Arizona and Louisville were his top 2 since they had visits scheduled. Guess what: Lee took his two scheduled visits and committed after the 2nd one to that school.
I don't think BD had any info factually wrong. As for the "coaches not being concerned", they probably weren't. They just had didn't have a crystal ball to tell the future. I am sure Wojo is not naive to how the recruiting game works. Things change all the time, even in 8 days or less!
Henry Ellenson never visited Kentucky after naming them in his final four. (I think.)
Henry Ellenson never visited Kentucky after naming them in his final four. (I think.)
Traci Carter set "tentative visits" for UConn and Memphis, but after coming to Marquette never took them.
Henry Ellenson never visited Kentucky after naming them in his final four. (I think.)
Did so-called insiders on their board say those coaching staffs were not concerned about their MU visits and say they promised visits to them? Did those coaching staffs have PLANS for those players ... plans they were so confident about that they were telling people that post on their fan message boards? Did those insiders excite their message boards that those guys were coming to their schools?
It's not that Miller and Lee did not come to MU, it's how they did not come to MU. I don't think they changed their minds. I think we were never an option in the first place. We were always safety schools.
It's ok we were not the option. The problem is, according to Big Daddy, it appears the coaching staffs thought we were a realistic options and they were plans A & B. In the meantime, I fear, they were not chasing realistic opportunities. And that put them behind in grad transfer recruiting.
Again I hope I'm wrong we get some solid grad transfer announcements in the next few weeks.
The other option is everyone here had Big Daddy wrong and he did not have good info. (But as noted before, he had three pages of praise and amens after he posted so no one thought that)
It's not that Miller and Lee did not come to MU, it's how they did not come to MU. I don't think they changed their minds. I think we were never an option in the first place. We were always safety schools.
Did Ms. Katie XYZ not even interview and take another job a few days later? If so, then your management should held to account for misjudging.
Again (for the umpteenth time) if we assume Big Daddy was correct. The coaches were not worried Lee was visiting other schools and said he would visit in early May. Wrong on both accounts. And again, if he actually visited, tweeted what a great place it was and then picked Loserville, I would have been fine with that.
What happens look like a misjudgement by the coaches. We were never anything more than a safety school and it sounds like we did not have much of a back-up plan.
I hope I'm wrong and we announce some decent grad transfers and/or Jucos that can contribute next year.
It's not that Miller and Lee did not come to MU, it's how they did not come to MU.
Great so we were safety schools. At the end of the day, the coaching staff looked at available options and said either we get Lee and Miller, Jucos or we don't waste the scholarship/energy.
Getting a grad school transfer implies they are the starter from day one. If you don't think they should start don't waste your energy recruiting them. Right now, I have yet to see any grad school player saying I want to go to MU and Wojo didn't spend time looking at him. Do you know that?
Wojo has a limited amount of time. He could focus on any and every grad school transfer or he could focus on the ones he feels we have a shot with or on 2016 players. He laid out (according to Big Daddy) a defined plan.
1. We get Lee and Miller
2. We get Lee and/or Miller and a juco
3. We get one/two jucos
4. We bank our scholarships
I haven't heard the answer to number 3 yet so is there a reason for concern? No. He stated his plan. Did he say he was going to get a Grad Transfer and failed? No. He said he was targeting Lee and Miller. Available Role vs level of interest. Both Lee and Miller expressed a high level of interest. Stating MU was one of 5 schools they would consider. If you notice, all Big Daddy said was the coaching staff wasn't concerned that Lee would commit prior to taking all visits. I would bet 99 out of 100 they aren't concerned because most recruits take all visits. From what I have seen, no where does it say Wojo is unconcerned that we would land one of the two.
Wojo got Carlino last year so he recruits grad transfers.
We have 10 players. They are good players and some of the services have us pre-season ranked. If they all stay healthy, this argument is moot. But you cannot assume that.
But we are rolling the dice with only 10 bodies. One two down years and one or two injuries and we are in trouble. Throw in inopportune sickness (flu) during the BE season and we are not dancing. If we are down to 7 or 6 players, like this past season, during a critical stretch, it's all on Wojo for not filling out all available schollies with Jucos and/or Grad transfers.
Wojo got Carlino last year so he recruits grad transfers.
We have 10 players. They are good players and some of the services have us pre-season ranked. If they all stay healthy, this argument is moot. But you cannot assume that.
But we are rolling the dice with only 10 bodies. One two down years and one or two injuries and we are in trouble. Throw in inopportune sickness (flu) during the BE season and we are not dancing. If we are down to 7 or 6 players, like this past season, during a critical stretch, it's all on Wojo for not filling out all available schollies with Jucos and/or Grad transfers.
No player who is a grad transfer is going to transfer to a school where we aren't going to play. Unless you know of a player who wants to go to MU and not play or is good enough to start, wants MU and Wojo said not worth pursuing then your points are moot and your frustration is misguided.
It's not that Miller and Lee did not come to MU, it's how they did not come to MU. I don't think they changed their minds. I think we were never an option in the first place. We were always safety schools.
You are wrong. Does that make you feel better? We were in the final 2 for Miller and final 5 for Lee (and from what I've heard we were above Gonzaga and Maryland). Miller was blown away in Storrs. He committed. Lee was blown away in Louisville. He committed. They aren't the first and they won't be the last. That is a risk you run when going up against the big boys. I for one I am glad we are taking those risks and not backing out when the big dogs get involved.
I do happen to agree with you on not banking scholarships. They are one year contracts, might as well fill them with projects. Keep if they work out, cut em if they don't. It seems Wojo doesn't believe in that practice, which is fine. A lot of coaches don't.
And for godsakes, Wojo has contacted people besides Lee and Miller. Two have been made public, Durand Johnson and Tomasz Gielo, others have not. Wojo is also pursuing some traditional transfers as well. Rowsey and Burnett are two names that have come up.
Throughout this thread you have acted as if Wojo doesn't know what he is doing. I don't think you appreciate how arrogant and ignorant that comes off to the other posters here. That is why people have reacted so negatively towards you in this thread.
You are wrong. Does that make you feel better? We were in the final 2 for Miller and final 5 for Lee (and from what I've heard we were above Gonzaga and Maryland). Miller was blown away in Storrs. He committed. Lee was blown away in Louisville. He committed. They aren't the first and they won't be the last. That is a risk you run when going up against the big boys. I for one I am glad we are taking those risks and not backing out when the big dogs get involved.
I do happen to agree with you on not banking scholarships. They are one year contracts, might as well fill them with projects. Keep if they work out, cut em if they don't. It seems Wojo doesn't believe in that practice, which is fine. A lot of coaches don't.
And for godsakes, Wojo has contacted people besides Lee and Miller. Two have been made public, Durand Johnson and Tomasz Gielo, others have not. Wojo is also pursuing some traditional transfers as well. Rowsey and Burnett are two names that have come up.
Throughout this thread you have acted as if Wojo doesn't know what he is doing. I don't think you appreciate how arrogant and ignorant that comes off to the other posters here. That is why people have reacted so negatively towards you in this thread.
Ok, another insider heard from ... hope you don't have the same sources than Big Daddy.
All I want is Wojo to fill out the roster.
Sultan is correct, this thread has been stupid for pages as it seems no one reads what I write because they are too busy calling me an idiot and that I'm wrong .... and then just repeat everything I just wrote in their own words.
So MU is too good to find grad transfers?
Ok, another insider heard from ... hope you don't have the same sources than Big Daddy.
All I want is Wojo to fill out the roster.
Sultan is correct, this thread has been stupid for pages as it seems no one reads what I write because they are too busy calling me an idiot and that I'm wrong .... and then just repeat everything I just wrote in their own words.
Have you ever heard the phrase, if you can't spot the crazy person on the bus, you are the crazy person on the bus? I don't mean that in a sense that you are literally crazy, but you have spent seven pages telling everyone else that they are "misreading you", "are mistaken", and "actually would agree with you if they just read what you wrote correctly." Have you ever stopped and thought, "maybe the reason no one seems to understand me and is reacting very negatively to my idea is because I am communicating it very poorly?"
6 pages of us debating Heisenberg idiocy against BigDaddy's history of valuable posts.So Heisy won? And Big Daddy has a history of valuable posts? And Ners was wrong? All of those deserve to ne in the tourney!! And the one that was definitely slighted "I'll be at MU as long as they want me". Is there no justice in the world?
Heisenberg won.
Ok, another insider heard from ... hope you don't have the same sources than Big Daddy.
All I want is Wojo to fill out the roster.
Sultan is correct, this thread has been stupid for pages as it seems no one reads what I write because they are too busy calling me an idiot and that I'm wrong .... and then just repeat everything I just wrote in their own words.
Have you ever heard the phrase, if you can't spot the crazy person on the bus, you are the crazy person on the bus?
If you're first, you get the first chance to get an early commitment and lock everyone else out. But if you don't get the commit, you have the disadvantage of the most distant memory when the decision time comes, plus all your competitors now know what they have to do to beat you--the first visit sets the bar.
On the other hand, if you're last, you get the chance to make the final pitch. You can frame your offer in comparison to what the recruit likes and doesn't like about each and every other visit. You have the strongest case for getting the commitment on campus, because after all, the kid has already visited everyone else, and there is no excuse that he has to visit another school. Last is a very strong position. On the other hand, you run the risk that some other program closes the deal before the recruit gets to you.
First, nobody agrees with you. Nobody is repeating what you keep saying. Not one person in the entire thread agreed with your point of view that being last in a sequence of visits is evidence that you're the safety school and Wojo was wrong in recruiting them.
Mods, please lock this thread. It's nothing more than a scoop gang bang at this point. (Scoop Gang Bang: when one poster chooses a position and a large number of other posters come at them from a variety of angles; the original poster stays in the same position and as other scoopers read the thread they decide to join in)
Here is the problem I have with this statement ... I've been here for almost 8 years and whenever a consensus agrees on something, it is almost always wrong. That is why I keep asking the mods to start a stock market forum, I can get rich just doing the opposite of what is said around here.
So, if I'm supposed to hide in the corner because no one agrees with me, it has quite the opposite effect. Further, go read the earlier pages, plenty agreed with my idea that the coaching staff misjudged Miller/Lee and FEAR they lost valuable time in going after other grad transfers.
Mods, please lock this thread. It's nothing more than a scoop gang bang at this point. (Scoop Gang Bang: when one poster chooses a position and a large number of other posters come at them from a variety of angles; the original poster stays in the same position and as other scoopers read the thread they decide to join in)
Hey mu03eng...might this be an early candidate for the...2016 Meme Watch?
Mods, please lock this thread. It's nothing more than a scoop gang bang at this point. (Scoop Gang Bang: when one poster chooses a position and a large number of other posters come at them from a variety of angles; the original poster stays in the same position and as other scoopers read the thread they decide to join in)
I've been here for almost 8 years and whenever a consensus agrees on something, it is almost always wrong.