how to get into med school 101

[ChicosBailBonds]

And yet there is little evidence - and, in fact, some contrary evidence - that links MCAT scores to the quality of a physician.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/15/health/14chen.html

https://cdr.lib.unc.edu/indexablecontent?id=uuid:f778259e-5078-4339-9d18-47385c1d6430&ds=DATA_FILE

Then why do they keep the tests............I mean, it could have a negative effect on the quality of a physician.       Been used since 1928, must be because of the $$$$. 

This just in, no test ever is full proof or 100% predictor of future success in that occupation.  That's not what they are designed to do.  It is designed to see who will be successful in medical school and to be licensed, which is what you need to become a doctor.  The amount of money it costs to train doctors, they need to make damn sure applicants can get in, survive and do well.  In other words, reduce attrition rates.  You can't have good doctors if half of the candidates drop out and never become doctors.

At any rate, you left others out....must have been an oversight, but I'm glad to help you out because Cura Personalis, progress and it's Saturday.

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/medical-school-admissions-doctor/2012/02/27/demystifying-the-mcat

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/05/a-better-medical-school-admissions-test/?_r=0

[ChicosBailBonds]

As Pakuni already mentions, the above criteria have very little bearing on the quality of doctor.  What you are describing as the established benchmarks are more often a measure of the financial well being of the students. 

As I mentioned in my first post, high MCAT scores require very expensive (thousands of dollars) prep courses that teach you how to beat the test.  Similarly, wealthy students are spending $10k plus on tutors to ensure they get top grades in their courses, where again, these expensive tutors often have test info to help them beat the test. These same students buy test banks off the internet etc, to further improve their grades.

The result are individuals that on paper look great, but in some cases make terrible physicians, meanwhile, less wealthy students who actually are better prepared are not scoring as well.

I offer a former student of mine as an example.  She is brilliant, I would gladly send my children to her as a physician.  She couldn't afford the expensive MCAT prep courses and tried to prepare on her own, while working part time to pay bills.  She didn't score well enough to get into any respected med schools.  I payed for an MCAT prep course for her.  She scored well enough to get in anywhere in the country. 

Test scores have become a measure of wealth.

And you'll also note, I never said anything of the kind about the MCAT and the quality of the doctor.  I was asked what should be used for acceptance rates and I gave you my answer. You guys are changing the conversation, which you often accuse me of doing.  Ironically.

[Benny B]

Well off middle-aged white guys trying to make themselves out to be society's victims. It would be funny if it wasn't so embarrassing. Don't you guys have anything better to do with your time?

You know what's even more embarrassing to society... well off middle-aged white guys being told their racist because they want to enable people to stand up on their own and shed the cloak of oppression.

[Pakuni]

I mean, it could have a negative effect on the quality of a physician.  

Said no one here ever.
But hey, the test has been around a long time, so it must be the best way to do things.

Also, neither link you provided contradicts my post.
As usual.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

As Pakuni already mentions, the above criteria have very little bearing on the quality of doctor.  What you are describing as the established benchmarks are more often a measure of the financial well being of the students. 

As I mentioned in my first post, high MCAT scores require very expensive (thousands of dollars) prep courses that teach you how to beat the test.  Similarly, wealthy students are spending $10k plus on tutors to ensure they get top grades in their courses, where again, these expensive tutors often have test info to help them beat the test. These same students buy test banks off the internet etc, to further improve their grades.

The result are individuals that on paper look great, but in some cases make terrible physicians, meanwhile, less wealthy students who actually are better prepared are not scoring as well.

I offer a former student of mine as an example.  She is brilliant, I would gladly send my children to her as a physician.  She couldn't afford the expensive MCAT prep courses and tried to prepare on her own, while working part time to pay bills.  She didn't score well enough to get into any respected med schools.  I payed for an MCAT prep course for her.  She scored well enough to get in anywhere in the country. 

Test scores have become a measure of wealth.

You are to be commended, forgetful, but I also offer that there are other avenues available to those who wish to pursue a medical degree. Just yesterday I reviewed the CV of a very prominent physician ,held in high regard, who obtained an M.D. from a school in the Caribbean and went on to train at Johns Hopkins and build a remarkable career. There are always those who have an advantage over us. Gosh, there are even some who are taller, better looking than me , more talented etc.  We just have to make the best of what we are given. I think wasting what we have is the biggest sin. That person you spoke of used talent and drive to gain your attention and support. I believe we all want life to be fairer than it really is.

[Benny B]

You are to be commended, forgetful, but I also offer that there are other avenues available to those who wish to pursue a medical degree. Just yesterday I reviewed the CV of a very prominent physician ,held in high regard, who obtained an M.D. from a school in the Caribbean and went on to train at Johns Hopkins and build a remarkable career. There are always those who have an advantage over us. Gosh, there are even some who are taller, better looking than me , more talented etc.  We just have to make the best of what we are given. I think wasting what we have is the biggest sin. That person you spoke of used talent and drive to gain your attention and support. I believe we all want life to be fairer than it really is.

Pretty much nailed it.

A good friend of mine didn't so much as even pick up a sample test, let alone go to any prep classes, and he nearly aced the LSAT.  Was accepted to every law school he applied to. Three years of law school, and graduated in the top 10 of his class, yet some his text books were still in cellophane.  Spent the two weeks before the bar exam at a different bar each night.  Passed on his first try.  15 years later, he's no longer practicing law... his father passed away several years ago and he admitted the only reason he even went to law school was out of respect for his father (a very accomplished attorney in his own right).  Says law isn't challenging enough.

Some people are just smarter than other people.  Others are savants.  Others have no business being in college.  Its not fair, but that's life.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You know what's even more embarrassing to society... well off middle-aged white guys being told their racist because they want to enable people to stand up on their own and shed the cloak of oppression.

Ding ding.   Go home, the Internet was just won!

[Silkk the Shaka]

You know what's even more embarrassing to society... well off middle-aged white guys being told their racist because they want to enable people to stand up on their own and shed the cloak of oppression.

Except where did I call anyone a racist? I merely said you are not society's victims. I won't even address the pomposity of the latter half of your response.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Ding ding.   Go home, the Internet was just won!

Wow, you have impossibly low standards.

[drewm88]

A few basic points on affirmative action...I'm not here to get into an argument about it, but I thought I'd share these:

--Quotas in admissions are illegal.
--Affirmative action only deals with QUALIFIED applicants. Affirmative action does not allow unqualified individuals to get into a school. It only factors into deciding among a surplus of qualified applicants.
--Studies have shown that since the institution of affirmative action, the group to benefit most, admission-wise, are white women.
--Countless studies have shown that diversity among students has significant educational benefits for majority groups (i.e., white men in racially/ethnically diverse institutions come out better educated than if they had been in less diverse institutions.)

[Benny B]

Except where did I call anyone a racist? I merely said you are not society's victims. I won't even address the pomposity of the latter half of your response.

I was speaking in general terms, not specifically in reference to anything said here.

But I beg of you, please address the pomposity of the latter half of my response.  I'd love to hear the rationalization for what is so patronizing about "teaching a man to fish."