[Cracked Sidewalks] Marquette hosts low mid-major this week

[CrackedSidewalksSays]

Marquette hosts low mid-major this week

and there are plenty of tickets available for the game, one that is an 'important issue to.....fans of college basketball and the city of Milwaukee' according to an athletic administrator in town.How is this possible?

Some fans are SHOCKED.......SHOCKED I tell ya! that seats remain -- good seats -- for this much anticipated game between Marquette and a low mid-major.

Remember, this is a game that could have been played in Miller Park in order to accommodate 20,000 fans.  Heck, the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel even redefined the term 'rivalry' when the series was announced.

Note to Bobbi Roquemore and Bud Haidet;  34-0 does not a rivalry make.  Nor does low mid-major fan apathy.   As of this morning, fans can buy 10 seats together for Saturday's game and sit along the sides of the court.

No need to fill the corners for Al this time.

http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2007/11/marquette-hosts-low-mid-major-this-week.html

[tonyreeder]

I don't understand why everyone is relishing the fact that this game is not sold out.  Isn't it better for Marquette financially to have as many butts in the seats as possible?    Ha Ha we're so superior to UWM that we don't sell out our home games. Ha Ha We get the same amount of people at this game as Utah Valley State. Ridiculous and childish.

[NYWarrior]

I don't understand why everyone is relishing the fact that this game is not sold out.  Isn't it better for Marquette financially to have as many butts in the seats as possible?    Ha Ha we're so superior to UWM that we don't sell out our home games. Ha Ha We get the same amount of people at this game as Utah Valley State. Ridiculous and childish.

nobody is relishing the lack of a sellout......merely pointing out that interest in the game is not what so many thought it would be

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I don't understand why everyone is relishing the fact that this game is not sold out.  Isn't it better for Marquette financially to have as many butts in the seats as possible?    Ha Ha we're so superior to UWM that we don't sell out our home games. Ha Ha We get the same amount of people at this game as Utah Valley State. Ridiculous and childish.

I wondered the same thing. I'm sure the game will draw more than some of the games we've got scheduled for December.  

Incidentally, to Chicos point, a "major city" wouldn't have a chance to sell out a game like this on a Friday night. This will draw a good crowd because Milwaukee (although I love it) is NOT a "major city."  

[mu_hilltopper]

The "relishing" comes from the prior "we told you so."

UWM, in many acts of childish PR, claimed the games between MU and UWM would be so valuable, they should be paid a hefty premium for making the trip across town.

Remember how that all went down?  MU delivered a contract, and instead of rejecting, or calling up MU to re-negotiate, they instead called a PRESS CONFERENCE to say how it wasn't good enough, how they wouldn't play for that kind of money.

Then, what, a week later they mysteriously said some "unidentified donors" had ponied up money to UWM so the games could be played, and then signed the original agreement with MU.  Clownish professionalism.  Makes me wonder if those mystery donors ever actually wrote any checks.  Even if that story is true, it sure seems like something not to tell the media, like you ransomed the game and got some of your own donors to give you money.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=519256

8 days later
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=521971

[ToddPacker]

The "relishing" comes from the prior "we told you so."

UWM, in many acts of childish PR, claimed the games between MU and UWM would be so valuable, they should be paid a hefty premium for making the trip across town.

Remember how that all went down?  MU delivered a contract, and instead of rejecting, or calling up MU to re-negotiate, they instead called a PRESS CONFERENCE to say how it wasn't good enough, how they wouldn't play for that kind of money.

Then, what, a week later they mysteriously said some "unidentified donors" had ponied up money to UWM so the games could be played, and then signed the original agreement with MU.  Clownish professionalism.  Makes me wonder if those mystery donors ever actually wrote any checks.  Even if that story is true, it sure seems like something not to tell the media, like you ransomed the game and got some of your own donors to give you money.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=519256

8 days later
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=521971

Hilltopper, I completely agree with your point, and as I am sure you are aware, the two prior posters who profess to not get why this is something to be relished, are just purposely being obtuse.  Of course everyone here wishes MU would sell out every game, however, that is just not realistic considering MU's size and the fact that most casual hoops fans cheer for bucky and many of them consider MU to be the devil. 

I did an informal poll of people I know who went to or still attend UWM this past holiday weekend: None of them even remembered that the game was this coming Friday nor did they plan on attending.  These are the same people who would whine to me about MU not playing UWM reciting all of the journal sentinel talking points word for word. 

I am not a proponent of running up the score, but if MU has the opportunity this Friday, I hope we run it up big time.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I don't understand why everyone is relishing the fact that this game is not sold out.  Isn't it better for Marquette financially to have as many butts in the seats as possible?    Ha Ha we're so superior to UWM that we don't sell out our home games. Ha Ha We get the same amount of people at this game as Utah Valley State. Ridiculous and childish.

I wondered the same thing. I'm sure the game will draw more than some of the games we've got scheduled for December. 

Incidentally, to Chicos point, a "major city" wouldn't have a chance to sell out a game like this on a Friday night. This will draw a good crowd because Milwaukee (although I love it) is NOT a "major city." 

Milwaukee has a metro population of over 1 million people.  It is the 22nd largest city in the USA.  How is that not a major city is beyond me.

Incidentally, UCLA the other day hosted a game...they're number 1 in the country, play in the second largest city in the country but the largest metro population in the country, their stadium holds almost half what ours does, larger school, public, 11 national titles, played a buy game....didn't sell out.

I'm sure they're disgusted.   

Or does Los Angeles not qualify as a major city either?


The point is and has been that all the teeth gnashing and bullcrap to get this game for the last few years and proclamations of "GUARANTEED SELLOUTS" (and there were MANY that said this) was a bunch of crap, as many of us knew to be the case.  So in the process, we help validate junior down the street to help their program and what does MU get out of it?  An extra 1000 tickets sold for a buy game?  The trade off isn't worth it.  If MU wins by 20 or more, then it was supposed to be.  If MU wins by 10 then it's the mighty Panthers that can feel good about themselves.  If MU wins by 2 or 3 then what?  If MU loses, total disaster.  No upside whatsoever for MU.  Plus since it's their super bowl, the game is bound to be a bit more "chippy" from their players then it would if we were playing another buy game against a team that has no ties to Milwaukee or Wisconsin. 


Incidentally, in city population, Milwaukee is larger then these "minor" cities

Milwaukee 578,887

Seattle 573,911...minor city
Boston 559,034....minor city
Denver 557,917....minor city
Washington, D.C. 550,521...minor city


etc, etc, etc, etc

Source: U.S. Census Bureau. Web: www.census.gov

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Incidentally, UCLA the other day hosted a game...they're number 1 in the country, play in the second largest city in the country but the largest metro population in the country, their stadium holds almost half what ours does, larger school, public, 11 national titles, played a buy game....didn't sell out.

I'm sure they're disgusted.   

Or does Los Angeles not qualify as a major city either?

What? Your example is supporting my argument. Major cities wouldn't support college basketball on a Friday night in November. LA won't draw flies for a UCLA game this early in the season because there's too much to do out there.

Conversely, Marquette will most likely draw more than 15K for UW-Milwaukee on a Friday night. That's unthinkable in LA, Chicago, New York, San Francisco, etc. 

[deerchaser]

Chicos-
PRN is right, you did manage to support his argument by quoting the UCLA attendance figures.  Also your population numbers skew things quite a bit in "major cities".  A better statistic would be to look at metropolitan area figures as they include suburbs.  Now I'm getting my numbers from wikipedia, so alas they are not quite as official as your census numbers but here you go:

Seattle: 3.26 mil
Boston: 4.46 mil
Denver: 2.4 mil
DC: 5.3 mil
Milwaukee metro area: 1.75 mil

All but Denver dwarf Milwaukee in metro area population, supporting PRN's claim of not being a "major city".  This seems rather apparent as you can drive 30 minutes outside the city and be in a rural area.  I'm no expert on these other cities but I doubt that's the case in more "major cities".  All I'm saying is you seem a little quick to jump all over PRN.

[MarquetteFan94]

To me, this whole issue of a UWM "rivalry" is ridiculous.  I understand the intra-city stuff but for those who don't live in the Milwaukee area, this game means nothing more than a game against Coppin St., IUPUI, Savannah St, etc....it's another home, OOC game against a high RPI, weak, mid-major team that should pad our pre-conference win total....that's it.  

I'm driving up from Chicago because I'm a season ticket holder, it's a Friday night game and I'm excited about our team...not because it's UWM.  

I'm disappointed that we even agreed to play this second-tier, garbage program given the BS they've pumped into the local and state media over the last few years....there's no doubt that it would've been entertaining when Pearl was there and they actually had a winning program...now they're an also-ran in the frickin Horizon League, their bandwagon friends have disappeared and they're back to drawing 3,300 people per game....yawn.

I don't think anyone is relishing the fact that it's not a sellout...I'm pretty sure we'd all like to see the BC filled to capacity every night...it's the fact that the UWM morons and other state school advocates have been building up this match-up for years....they finally get it and now what....they don't show up and put their money where their mouthes have been...what a joke.  How many programs would draw 19,000 to see UWM...or any of those other teams that I mentioned above?  Not many...you could count them on one hand.  How many progams would draw 19,000 for ANY game?  We were 14th in the country in home attendance last year....I'm not concerned about our fan base.

I'm sure we'll have over 15,000 at the game and with it being a Friday night it should be a good time....I hope we keep our foot on the gas the entire game....

[RawdogDX]

I'm confused.  If we were playing some random second tier garbage program located out of state and not selling it out no one would be mad about it.  They would just say it's one of several cupcakes and shrug their shoulders.  But since it's in milwaukee I should be upset about 'validating their program' and that there is no 'upside' for mu?  That's true about a bunch of our games.  And every team out there plays just like that.  We are hosting a low mid-major, its happend before and it will again.  Just make the uwm is evil post and treat it like any other game, because that's all it is.

oh, and milwaukee isn't a major city, but it is a nice little baby brother that chicago appriceates having around.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Incidentally, UCLA the other day hosted a game...they're number 1 in the country, play in the second largest city in the country but the largest metro population in the country, their stadium holds almost half what ours does, larger school, public, 11 national titles, played a buy game....didn't sell out.

I'm sure they're disgusted.   

Or does Los Angeles not qualify as a major city either?

What? Your example is supporting my argument. Major cities wouldn't support college basketball on a Friday night in November. LA won't draw flies for a UCLA game this early in the season because there's too much to do out there.

Conversely, Marquette will most likely draw more than 15K for UW-Milwaukee on a Friday night. That's unthinkable in LA, Chicago, New York, San Francisco, etc. 

You're missing my point entirely.  The implication in an earlier post was that we should be disgusted because we aren't selling out....no one sells out these games unless you're playing in a cow town / collegetown like Bloomington, Madison, Stillwater, etc where there is NOTHING to do and/or it's the only game in town.

There's too much to do in Milwaukee too, especially for a city that has a private school as it's main basketball team....people aren't going to get behind the private school like they will a public school.  You and I agree on Los Angeles, Chicago, etc.....I think you're short selling Milwaukee.  There is way too much to do in Milwaukee as well.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm confused.  If we were playing some random second tier garbage program located out of state and not selling it out no one would be mad about it.  They would just say it's one of several cupcakes and shrug their shoulders.  But since it's in milwaukee I should be upset about 'validating their program' and that there is no 'upside' for mu?  That's true about a bunch of our games.  And every team out there plays just like that.  We are hosting a low mid-major, its happend before and it will again.  Just make the uwm is evil post and treat it like any other game, because that's all it is.

oh, and milwaukee isn't a major city, but it is a nice little baby brother that chicago appriceates having around.

Because the difference is simple.  You beat Utah Valley State by 11 points and people get all hot and bothered for 24 hours and that's the end of it....they go back to Utah, you never hear about it again.  You beat UWM by 9 points or 11 points and suddenly it's a story with legs for the next year because little sister down the street hung with MU....the media will continue to remind you about it, and it makes it even harder to get out of the series.  THERE IS ZERO UPSIDE...ZERO.

I hope like hell we beat them soundly the next three years and then take the out in the contract and end it right there.  If a couple of the games are close, all you do is pump life into their program, make it next to impossible to get out of the series long term...NO UPSIDE. 

This whole "good for the state of  Wisconsin" is complete crap.  It's good for one program...UWM.  If the powers that be want to do something that is good for the state of Wisconsin, they will have UW@Madison play Marquette twice a year, home and away.....I'll fall off my chair when that happens again.

[TallTitan34]

First, as attendance is concerned Marquette has been in the top 25 for many years which impressive considering school size and what it has to compete with.

Second, the reason people complain about not selling out the BC is because Marquette didn't even want this game.  UWM media fiasco is what caused all of this.

They take away a potential home-and-home series with another opponent (like Arizona in years past).  When we have to play over at the Cell that will be our one OOC road game.  A road game that will be closer to campus than our home the BC.

[MarquetteFan94]

What? Your example is supporting my argument. Major cities wouldn't support college basketball on a Friday night in November. LA won't draw flies for a UCLA game this early in the season because there's too much to do out there.

Conversely, Marquette will most likely draw more than 15K for UW-Milwaukee on a Friday night. That's unthinkable in LA, Chicago, New York, San Francisco, etc. 
[/quote]

Not a good comparison between MU/Milwaukee and any of those cities you mention.  None of those cities have a major D-I basketball program that was in the Top 40 in men's basketball attendance last year.  Also, I'd like to think that MU has better fan support than UCLA, DePaul, St. John's, San Francisco (?), etc....I'll even include DC and Philly in this list...so I'd like to think we have better support than Georgetown and Villanova also.

I don't think it's about having more or less to do in any of those other cities than in Milwaukee...you're telling me that if you're a diehard UCLA, DePaul, St. John's fan,etc....you can't break away for 2 hours on one Friday night in November to catch a basketball game and support your team?  You have the entire year to take advantage of those cities if you live there....I don't buy it.  The fact that UCLA or any of these other teams can't draw 15k to a game in November is a reflection on their fans....not the city.  Granted Pauley Pavilion "only" holds 13k or so, but I'm guessing that if UCLA/USC played this Friday night they'd sell out.

Currently, none of the other cities/schools I list above have the unconditional support that Marquette has....not to mention another intra-city rival that would warrant an attendance bump for a Friday night game in November...which UWM was supposedly going to do for this game.

I don't think droves of Pepperdine, Northwestern, George Washington, St. Joe's, or Manhattan fans would bump those intra-city game attendance numbers over 15,000 either....not because everyone's at a club or dining at a new restaurant...but because those teams blow and nobody cares.

If Georgetown played a GW team that was ranked in the Top 25 on Friday they'd probably draw quite a crowd....probably considerably higher than their 10k average.  St. John's and DePaul (hence NY and Chicago) don't even warrant being a part of this discussion.  DePaul drew just over 7,000 for Saturday's loss to NC A&T and St. John's averaged less than 7,000 last season....again, IMO, not because everyone was at the Field Museum or Times Square but because their teams have been awful for several consecutive seasons.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I'm glad MU is playing them because I (living in Milwaukee) have some increased interest in this game. However, the fact that it isn't selling out, and the fact that a lot of UWM people are not going to be in attendance confirms what the MU athletic department had always thought: UWM is a mid-major school, and bending over backwards to schedule them isn't worth it.


This isn't a cheap shot at UWM, their program, or their alumni. This is just factual. UWM will not draw a significant enough more fans than Idaho State to make it worth while for MU to do a home and home as so many people suggested. The math just doesn't hold up. Even the current deal that MU has is probably a stretch.

UWM is a mid-major program that has had some recent success.

They are not going to be a power every year, but every 4 or 5 years they could be pretty good (as is the case with a lot of mid-major schools).

It would be/will be hard for UWM to obtain any extended success because of the conference they are in. Yes, there are a few mid-major type schools that have had some good runs, but its rare. Not impossible, but rare.

When UWM is in a "down cycle", it will be hard for them to attract fans to their own arena, much less the Bradley Center.

That is the case this year.

Those are the facts.

[RawdogDX]

I'm confused.  If we were playing some random second tier garbage program located out of state and not selling it out no one would be mad about it.  They would just say it's one of several cupcakes and shrug their shoulders.  But since it's in milwaukee I should be upset about 'validating their program' and that there is no 'upside' for mu?  That's true about a bunch of our games.  And every team out there plays just like that.  We are hosting a low mid-major, its happend before and it will again.  Just make the uwm is evil post and treat it like any other game, because that's all it is.

oh, and milwaukee isn't a major city, but it is a nice little baby brother that chicago appriceates having around.

Because the difference is simple.  You beat Utah Valley State by 11 points and people get all hot and bothered for 24 hours and that's the end of it....they go back to Utah, you never hear about it again.  You beat UWM by 9 points or 11 points and suddenly it's a story with legs for the next year because little sister down the street hung with MU....the media will continue to remind you about it, and it makes it even harder to get out of the series.  THERE IS ZERO UPSIDE...ZERO.

I hope like hell we beat them soundly the next three years and then take the out in the contract and end it right there.  If a couple of the games are close, all you do is pump life into their program, make it next to impossible to get out of the series long term...NO UPSIDE. 

This whole "good for the state of  Wisconsin" is complete crap.  It's good for one program...UWM.  If the powers that be want to do something that is good for the state of Wisconsin, they will have UW@Madison play Marquette twice a year, home and away.....I'll fall off my chair when that happens again.

a 11 point win and story that has legs?  please.  No one will care.  And if they do then the ticket sales will go up right?  And that would be a good thing right?  No upside?  One of two possibilities.  We beat the tar out of them as we should and there won't be a diff between this game and any UVS.  Or two we don't, and that means we will sell more tickets next year, which is an upside UVS doesn't have at all.
You are imagining problems.  There is no reason not to give the little guy a cance.  If we want to schedule better teams this isn't stopping us, plenty of cupcakes to cut out of the schedule.  Two years ago thier students were chanting bring on Marquette.  They laid down a challenge and now we are going to slap them around for the next 4 years.  Did that chant ever break out at Utah?  I'm guessing no. 
And if we lose then we suck and we desirve negative repercussions.  Do you think that is going to happen?  Neither Do I.  SO lets just be excited that we get to teach them a lesson for that publicity stunt they pulled, their outragous demands, and the fact that they for a few years had the audacity to consider themselves the top program in milwaukee. 
No upside?  I want to talk smack!  I don't talk trash, i talk smack.  There is a difference because trash is hypothetical.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I know UWM is down and we looked decent in Maui, but isn't everybody getting a little cocky? Let's not forget that we looked pretty bad at home vs. IUPUI, Utah Valley St. and Chaminade. Our lack of offensive talent makes us a constant candidate for an upset.

I don't expect we'll lose to the Panthers, but can everybody just stop mocking these guys?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Raw, you're looking at it from a ticket perspective.  I'm looking at it from an exposure/program perspective.  With Milwaukee being oversaturated as it is with sports teams and options, the last thing we should be doing is HELPING little sister down the street get better/get more exposure/become long term viable.  That's the point.  I'm not imagining any of this, we just don't need this game and there was no reason to have it now, tomorrow, next year, 10 years from now.  Zero upside.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I know UWM is down and we looked decent in Maui, but isn't everybody getting a little cocky? Let's not forget that we looked pretty bad at home vs. IUPUI, Utah Valley St. and Chaminade. Our lack of offensive talent makes us a constant candidate for an upset.

I don't expect we'll lose to the Panthers, but can everybody just stop mocking these guys?

Or is it that IUPUI, Utah Valley State and Chaminade aren't that bad and people just read the name on the jerseys and conclude such?  IUPUI expected to win their conference.  Utah Valley State was the best independent in the country last year.  Chaminade won the last game of the tournament over Princeton and gave LSU all they could handle in the second game losing by a few points.

UWM is not a bad team....I'm mocking the school...yes....not the team.  Again, another reason not to play them because anything can happen on any given day.  I'd rather lose to an out of state buy team then one 4 miles away.  Torre Johnson is a good player, they have more size then we do (then again that's been the case the last three years for most opponents).

[muball]

Chico agree 100%, another thing to watch is not only the total number of seats sold but how many no shows are there by ticket holders. That will tell how people really feel about this game.  Hope we have a great game, not to show up UWM, but to shut up the Press, UWMs Bud and his antics, and the UW people who said this was a natural sellout and would be a sellout. Heck UWM is lucky to sell 2000 plus tickets and many of those are give aways to kids.