All-time leading scorer discussion leads to interesting picture

[mu03eng]

On the Scrambled Eggs pod we discussed Duane Wilson and I speculated that Duane Wilson would leave Marquette as the all-time scoring leader.  As I thought about it more (that's what you do on podcasts, speculate wildly first than investigate), I wanted to see what MU's top 10 leading scorers looked like on a timeline and did they consistently grow or were they a one monster year type of scorer.  I attached the graph I created.

First, holy crap how did we not win more with the big 3 and Zar?!?!?!?!?!  That's gotta be a major failure for Crean and Buzz right?

And it's very early but Duane could eclipse Jerel as a freshman, which bodes well for my production

George Thompson is the man and that clearly is not said enough.

[Goose]

IMO Wilson will be leading scorer by a wide margin if he stays healthy. He is capable of putting big numbers on a bad team and will only grow over next couple of years. I bet my kids two months ago on this one.

[GooooMarquette]

First, holy crap how did we not win more with the big 3 and Zar?!?!?!?!?!  That's gotta be a major failure for Crean and Buzz right?

I think TC's main mistake was playing Dominic as a shoot-first guard, instead of as a true point.  And we lost Jerel for the tourney as a sophomore, so it's hard to fault him too much for that.  Junior seasons, we were a heartbeat away from the Sweet Sixteen against Stanford.

Buzz did a nice job of converting Dom to more of a pass-first PG (his scoring was down, but he had the best A/TO ratio of his career), unleashed Wesley, and had a great season going.  If Dom hadn't broken his foot that season against UConn, we could have gone far.  As it was, we were very close to beating Mizzou to get to the Sweet Sixteen.  The next round, we would have played an overrated Memphis team (which Mizzou beat).

Agree that Duane has a great shot if he stays healthy.

[Litehouse]

 If Dom hadn't broken his foot that season against UConn, we could have gone far.  As it was, we were very close to beating Mizzou to get to the Sweet Sixteen.  The next round, we would have played an overrated Memphis team (which Mizzou beat).

I was going to say the same thing.  Dom's injury in '09 cut short what could have been a great run, and Jerel's injury in '07 also left you wondering "what if".  Throw in the heartbreaker against Stanford in '08, and the Jean Felix career game for Alabama in '06, and you had a lot of tough breaks in March during the Three Amigo years.

[WarriorInNYC]

I was going to say the same thing.  Dom's injury in '09 cut short what could have been a great run, and Jerel's injury in '07 also left you wondering "what if".  Throw in the heartbreaker against Stanford in '08, and the Jean Felix career game for Alabama in '06, and you had a lot of tough breaks in March during the Three Amigo years.

Agreed.  That game against Stanford was tough.  Those teams really struggled against quality bigs as Ooz and Burke just couldn't handle the likes of Aaron Gray, Roy Hibbert, and the Lopez twins. 

[RubyWiscy]

Biggest factor against the Three Amigos was no solid big man for almost all 4 years. Not their fault, but the team needed one more piece.

[Blackhat]

Henry Ellenson and Matt Heldt with three amigos =  

[Henry Sugar]

On the Scrambled Eggs pod we discussed Duane Wilson and I speculated that Duane Wilson would leave Marquette as the all-time scoring leader.  As I thought about it more (that's what you do on podcasts, speculate wildly first than investigate), I wanted to see what MU's top 10 leading scorers looked like on a timeline and did they consistently grow or were they a one monster year type of scorer.  I attached the graph I created.

First, holy crap how did we not win more with the big 3 and Zar?!?!?!?!?!  That's gotta be a major failure for Crean and Buzz right?

And it's very early but Duane could eclipse Jerel as a freshman, which bodes well for my production

George Thompson is the man and that clearly is not said enough.

Dammit man, don't you know how to Internets? Embed the picture! (Also, great work)

Avg PPG


Points

[Galway Eagle]

Looked up teams that also made the tournament 06-10 to see if we actually did under perform during that 5 year stretch. The teams that I remembered off the top of my head are:

Pittsburgh: Sweet 16 2006, Elite 8 2009
Gonzaga: Two sweet 16 2006, 2009
Xavier: Two sweet 16 2009, 2010 one elite 8 2008
Wisconsin: Sweet 16 in 2008
Villanova: Sweet 16 in 2008, Elite 8 2006, Final Four 2009
Duke: sweet 16 2006 champions 2010
Kansas: Sweet 16 2007, 2009, Champions 2008

So I'd say during the same stretch of 5 years we definitely underperformed relative to comparable programs Zags, Xavier, Nova and UW.  If the stanford and Mizzou games (probably Washington but that was first round) had gone differently we still would've only been on par with Gonzaga.  

[wadesworld]

I was going to say the same thing.  Dom's injury in '09 cut short what could have been a great run, and Jerel's injury in '07 also left you wondering "what if".  Throw in the heartbreaker against Stanford in '08, and the Jean Felix career game for Alabama in '06, and you had a lot of tough breaks in March during the Three Amigo years.

Kinda like the feeling you got when you wonder, "What if we actually  made a 2 point FG in the 1st half against MSU," ai'na?

[Litehouse]

Kinda like the feeling you got when you wonder, "What if we actually  made a 2 point FG in the 1st half against MSU," ai'na?

Yeah, I was there, and I've tried my best to block any memory of that day.  The most excitement was hearing all the UNC fans go crazy when the scoreboard showed that Duke lost.

[wadesworld]

Yeah, I was there, and I've tried my best to block any memory of that day.  The most excitement was hearing all the UNC fans go crazy when the scoreboard showed that Duke lost.

I think the high point of the Final Four was when, as an 8th grader, 1 of the male MU fans behind me said "I'd rather be sitting here taking it from behind from another dude than down 29 points at halftime right now."  That was rough.  At least we got to see a ridiculous dunk from Hakiim Warrick the next game, and then saw one of the best NCAA Championships ever played two nights later.

[Henry Sugar]

First, holy crap how did we not win more with the big 3 and Zar?!?!?!?!?!  That's gotta be a major failure for Crean and Buzz right?

Maybe college hoops isn't a guard's game.

[willie warrior]

IMO Wilson will be leading scorer by a wide margin if he stays healthy. He is capable of putting big numbers on a bad team and will only grow over next couple of years. I bet my kids two months ago on this one.

Hopefully this will happen, Goose. A few things he does need to improve:
~~Better movement without the ball. He tends to stand waiting for it too much. Offense needs to set more screens for him.
~~3 point shooting. Never saw him in HS, but they say he shot over 50% his senior year. Right now he seems too streaky, and is not there yet. More consistency with 3 point shooting.
~~Finishing. He already is the best on the team at getting to the basket, but needs to finish at the rim better. That should come if he gets stronger--so he needs some weight room work.
His game reminds one a bit of DWade--just younger and smaller at this stage. Likely a better shooter than Wade.
Hopefully he continues to develop, and should.

[mu03eng]

Maybe college hoops isn't a guard's game.

Turns out you need at least a good player at every position.  Arguing guards or big men win you games is a lot of this

[brandx]

Biggest factor against the Three Amigos was no solid big man for almost all 4 years. Not their fault, but the team needed one more piece.

This.

Needed size and strength inside.

[Henry Sugar]

Arguing guards or big men win you games is a lot of this

It's almost as if you are unfamiliar with message boards.

[mu03eng]

It's almost as if you are unfamiliar with message boards.

[Dawson Rental]

Your gif gave me the best laugh I've had in some time.  Thanks.

Henry Ellenson and Matt Heldt with three amigos =  

[Blackhat]

 . Wonder if it's real.

[Lennys Tap]

IMO Wilson will be leading scorer by a wide margin if he stays healthy. He is capable of putting big numbers on a bad team and will only grow over next couple of years. I bet my kids two months ago on this one.

I think Wilson could be all that, but putting up big numbers on a bad team doesn't prove a great deal. Somebody always gets numbers even on the worst of teams.

[mu03eng]

I think Wilson could be all that, but putting up big numbers on a bad team doesn't prove a great deal. Somebody always gets numbers even on the worst of teams.

But Duane's come within the flow of the offense....he doesn't force it and plays within the team concept....that bodes very well when there is a lot more talent on the roster.

[Lennys Tap]

But Duane's come within the flow of the offense....he doesn't force it and plays within the team concept....that bodes very well when there is a lot more talent on the roster.

I don't disagree, just saying that as they talent improves the stats will be more evenly shared.

[mu03eng]

Look at the chart again, the 3 amigos and Zar grew every year and the scoring overall got bigger.

[Lennys Tap]

Look at the chart again, the 3 amigos and Zar grew every year and the scoring overall got bigger.

They all started on good teams and continued on them. Duane started on one without much talent - hopefully he won't continue on them.