What happens when you let recruiting rankings run your program?

[wadesworld]

Some here site all the top 100 talent on the roster and cry over the poor results we are seeing this year, as if Wojo is royally screwing this season up.  The coach who royally screwed this season up is in Blacksburg, VA.  The fact of the matter is we have a top 100 senior who is clearly not playing like he was a top 100 recruit, a top 100 junior who again is clearly not playing like he was a top 100 recruit, and then a bunch of young top 100 players getting their first true season of college basketball in.  1 guy on the roster is over 6'7".  2 guys have the ability to shoot the basketball.  8 guys are eligible to play.  The best player on our roster by far has been out with an injury for nearly half of our conference season.  It's laughable that people somehow think we should be better than we are.  The fact that we have wins over even the likes of Arizona State, Tennessee, Georgia Tech, and Providence while being competitive in all but 3 games is a minor miracle given the makeup of the roster.

Some here think Wojo should've just given more minutes to players who are now out of the program just to give them minutes and keep them happy, regardless of whether they earn the minutes or not.  Just let the guys who double digit numbers next to their name in recruiting rankings run this program, they say.  You don't want to practice hard but still get major minutes in games?  Sure!  You used to dunk in wide open high school AAU settings, so let's keep you happy!  Don't overwork yourself in practice today, fellas, just go out and play 38 minutes of AAU style basketball in the games!

What happens when you do that?  You end up like Seton Hall.  Big time freshman recruits absolutely wrecking a program.  That would be awesome.

Nobody here is happy that we are 11-14.  But anybody with a clue saw it coming, understands that there is a lot of turnover when a new coach comes in, and sees Wojo is going to have this ship righted in due time.  Wojo recruits guys who have a particular skillset and are willing to play within a system.  Wojo wants guys who want to be here, he doesn't just want guys based on a recruiting website.  Unfortunately a few posters have made this place a lot less enjoyable and have caused some very good posters to stop posting some really good information that they used to share, deciding to share it only through PMs and other means besides posting it on this board knowing that it will just turn into a sh!tshow, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that the program is in the right man's hands, and not just for winning basketball games (he will do a lot of that), but for representing the University in a very positive way.

[GOO]

Some here site all the top 100 talent on the roster and cry over the poor results we are seeing this year,

By some, I assume you mean two people, but you don't want to call them out by name.

I think all the rest of us understand and consider it bizarre to look at a players ranking to determine how a team should perform.  It is even more bizarre to look at high school rankings of Sophomores, Juniors and Seniors as indicative of how a team and those players should perform especially given their lack of success at the college level.  Ranking may give some guidance for freshman year, especially at the top 25 or so, but after that they are not worth anything.  Once you have a season of proof, the ranking don't matter.

We're all with you.  Most of us saw all of the issues this team had coming into the season with not one player who proved himself a high major player at the D-1 level.  Some (meaning two posters) who obviously can't even begin to evaluate talent in the least bit, decide that they will use high school ranking as a major guide, and then decide the team should be great and when they are not blame the coach. Of course, it can't be that their method of analysis is off  (using old high school ranking despite evidence to the contrary) or that their judgment was bad.. can't be that... because that would mean that they are wrong....  What would Forest Gump's mom say...

Thanks for your post, maybe you can cut and paste it each time one of the two that don't get it posts. It has gotten very frustrating on this board.

[brewcity77]

For a program like ours that isn't Duke, Kentucky, or Kansas, you need to strike a balance. For a time, it seemed like Buzz had that. He found some 3-star contributors (Mayo, Otule, Gardner), some top-100s that could at least play at this level (Cadougan, Blue, Jamil), and landed key JUCO players that ultimately ended up being most of the leaders of his program (JFB, DJO, Crowder).

Early on, I think Wojo needs to somewhat follow that pattern. He has some top-100 guys that can play (Duane, Fischer, Cohen), a 3-star that are contributing (Derrick), and found a useful transfer (Carlino). Obviously this year we simply need more meat to the roster. One center, one proven scorer, and quite a few guys that aren't living up to their star ratings (recruited by the previous coach) isn't enough to win at this level. Compete? Yes, but not win.

We'll see how this class pans out. The top-100 talent is there, even without Nick. If we can land some of those top 3-star guys (Carter, Anim) and some contributing transfers (Wally, O'Field, Dequon Miller, grads) this team could hit the ground running next year and really get into its stride in 2016-17.

Roster balance is just as important as talent. Buzz always said each class should have 1 point guard, 1 center, and fill in with switchables. But he got away from that. Instead of getting point guards, he was just content to have guards even if they weren't natural distributors. Buycks and Derrick both have their attributes, but they aren't alpha dogs at the PG spot. And while we rode Oxtule for awhile, he really didn't have success with any big men outside those two, as Burke wasn't his and McKay was driven away.

Next year's current balance:

PG: Duane (?)
SG: Cheatham, Jajuan
SF: Sandy, Wally
PF: Henry, Taylor
C: Fischer, Heldt

Obviously there will be some overlap, but we definitely need another point guard and spreading bodies out at the other positions. Anim and O'Field, if we landed both, would mix in at the SG/SF positions. That leaves a massive need at PG (even if Cheatham can play there) and probably the need for another big guy that can rebound. We don't need top-100 players, but we do need capable bodies. Be interesting to see what happens in the next 3 months.

[mattyv1908]

In fairness, go back the last four recruiting classes on ESPN's Marquette page while Buzz was there.  The recruits he brought in all by and large had offers from other successful programs.  Also if you look at the list of players MU offered yet signed elsewhere you'll see that he recruited at least 8 guys 6'9"-7'0" and another half a dozen PGs.

It's not that Buzz no longer valued those things, it's simply that some kids chose to play elsewhere.  It happens when you have talented kids with multiple offers from high major D1 schools.

[NersEllenson]

Some here site all the top 100 talent on the roster and cry over the poor results we are seeing this year, as if Wojo is royally screwing this season up.  The coach who royally screwed this season up is in Blacksburg, VA.  The fact of the matter is we have a top 100 senior who is clearly not playing like he was a top 100 recruit, a top 100 junior who again is clearly not playing like he was a top 100 recruit, and then a bunch of young top 100 players getting their first true season of college basketball in.  1 guy on the roster is over 6'7".  2 guys have the ability to shoot the basketball.  8 guys are eligible to play.  The best player on our roster by far has been out with an injury for nearly half of our conference season.  It's laughable that people somehow think we should be better than we are.  The fact that we have wins over even the likes of Arizona State, Tennessee, Georgia Tech, and Providence while being competitive in all but 3 games is a minor miracle given the makeup of the roster.

Some here think Wojo should've just given more minutes to players who are now out of the program just to give them minutes and keep them happy, regardless of whether they earn the minutes or not.  Just let the guys who double digit numbers next to their name in recruiting rankings run this program, they say.  You don't want to practice hard but still get major minutes in games?  Sure!  You used to dunk in wide open high school AAU settings, so let's keep you happy!  Don't overwork yourself in practice today, fellas, just go out and play 38 minutes of AAU style basketball in the games!

What happens when you do that?  You end up like Seton Hall.  Big time freshman recruits absolutely wrecking a program.  That would be awesome.

Nobody here is happy that we are 11-14.  But anybody with a clue saw it coming, understands that there is a lot of turnover when a new coach comes in, and sees Wojo is going to have this ship righted in due time.  Wojo recruits guys who have a particular skillset and are willing to play within a system.  Wojo wants guys who want to be here, he doesn't just want guys based on a recruiting website.  Unfortunately a few posters have made this place a lot less enjoyable and have caused some very good posters to stop posting some really good information that they used to share, deciding to share it only through PMs and other means besides posting it on this board knowing that it will just turn into a sh!tshow, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that the program is in the right man's hands, and not just for winning basketball games (he will do a lot of that), but for representing the University in a very positive way.

Uh...okay.  I like how Carlino being out 3 games equates to "nearly half of our conference season."  Last time I checked 3 out of 13 games = 23%.  But hey, whatever you have to do to keep the narrative alive and well that this team had no business being anywhere but the bottom of the Big East and finish likely 4-14, and is SO overachieving.  Laughable.

Hey, we have wins over Tennessee, Georgia Tech, Arizona State - that's awesome - Deonte Burton happened to still be on the team back then.  JJJ got big minutes against Arizona State.

But hey, let's keep up with the narrative of "earning minutes," and arguing over and over and over again how a guy like Derrick Wilson "earns" minutes through apparently practicing hard, knowing his role, playing within himself - yet virtually NEVER showing up in the boxscore in a meaningful way - meanwhile handcuffing his teammates offensively because they have zero respect for Derrick as an offensive player.

Meanwhile, let's continue to beat the drum how an All Big East Freshman, Top 60 recruit, who was shooting 48% from the Field, 40% from the 3 point line, and 76% from the FT Line, who stole the ball on a remarkable 5.1% of opponents possessions as a freshman - Good for Top 10 of ALL college basketball players - DOESN'T EARN MINUTES ON THE FLOOR.

Please Wades -  Find a volleyball message board, where you can flaunt your nice medal in your avatar, and speak on something you actually have some knowledge.  Until then, well, its just more misguided information and the blind leading the blind.

[Uncle Rico]

Uh...okay.  I like how Carlino being out 3 games equates to "nearly half of our conference season."  Last time I checked 3 out of 13 games = 23%.  But hey, whatever you have to do to keep the narrative alive and well that this team had no business being anywhere but the bottom of the Big East and finish likely 4-14, and is SO overachieving.  Laughable.

Hey, we have wins over Tennessee, Georgia Tech, Arizona State - that's awesome - Deonte Burton happened to still be on the team back then.  JJJ got big minutes against Arizona State.

But hey, let's keep up with the narrative of "earning minutes," and arguing over and over and over again how a guy like Derrick Wilson "earns" minutes through apparently practicing hard, knowing his role, playing within himself - yet virtually NEVER showing up in the boxscore in a meaningful way - meanwhile handcuffing his teammates offensively because they have zero respect for Derrick as an offensive player.

Meanwhile, let's continue to beat the drum how an All Big East Freshman, Top 60 recruit, who was shooting 48% from the Field, 40% from the 3 point line, and 76% from the FT Line, who stole the ball on a remarkable 5.1% of opponents possessions as a freshman - Good for Top 10 of ALL college basketball players - DOESN'T EARN MINUTES ON THE FLOOR.

Please Wades -  Find a volleyball message board, where you can flaunt your nice medal in your avatar, and speak on something you actually have some knowledge.  Until then, well, its just more misguided information and the blind leading the blind.

If anyone is misguided, it's been you.  For someone that likes to brag about his vast high school basketball experience, you have no idea how coaches dole out minutes. 

[Newsdreams]

Uh...okay.  I like how Carlino being out 3 games equates to "nearly half of our conference season."  Last time I checked 3 out of 13 games = 23%.  But hey, whatever you have to do to keep the narrative alive and well that this team had no business being anywhere but the bottom of the Big East and finish likely 4-14, and is SO overachieving.  Laughable.

Hey, we have wins over Tennessee, Georgia Tech, Arizona State - that's awesome - Deonte Burton happened to still be on the team back then.  JJJ got big minutes against Arizona State.

But hey, let's keep up with the narrative of "earning minutes," and arguing over and over and over again how a guy like Derrick Wilson "earns" minutes through apparently practicing hard, knowing his role, playing within himself - yet virtually NEVER showing up in the boxscore in a meaningful way - meanwhile handcuffing his teammates offensively because they have zero respect for Derrick as an offensive player.

Meanwhile, let's continue to beat the drum how an All Big East Freshman, Top 60 recruit, who was shooting 48% from the Field, 40% from the 3 point line, and 76% from the FT Line, who stole the ball on a remarkable 5.1% of opponents possessions as a freshman - Good for Top 10 of ALL college basketball players - DOESN'T EARN MINUTES ON THE FLOOR.

Please Wades -  Find a volleyball message board, where you can flaunt your nice medal in your avatar, and speak on something you actually have some knowledge.  Until then, well, its just more misguided information and the blind leading the blind.

And here we go again!

[brewcity77]

In fairness, go back the last four recruiting classes on ESPN's Marquette page while Buzz was there.  The recruits he brought in all by and large had offers from other successful programs.  Also if you look at the list of players MU offered yet signed elsewhere you'll see that he recruited at least 8 guys 6'9"-7'0" and another half a dozen PGs.

It's not that Buzz no longer valued those things, it's simply that some kids chose to play elsewhere.  It happens when you have talented kids with multiple offers from high major D1 schools.

But at the end of the day, it's who you land. Buzz didn't go after Kris Dunn when he wanted to come here, pursued Gabe York, and lost both. Buzz didn't give a second look to Tyler Ulis, who he thought was too small (despite the success of Acker and Cooby). That's a guy he could have had early but instead went after other targets and when Ulis blew up saw him go to Kentucky.

At times it seemed like Buzz offered everyone in the top-25, but didn't land any of them. I remember at one point looking at a very-early top-25 list and seeing Marquette listed with 14/25 players. We ended up with none of them. That was one problem with Buzz's strategy. He threw a lot of lines in the water, but ultimately ended up only landing his second and third tier targets, and rarely were any of those guys point guards.

If you include the 2014 class that mostly departed, Buzz landed 13 top-100 players. Two of them were PGs (Junior and Duane) and none of them were centers. 84.6% of his top-100 players were wing players. You can send a letter to anyone and offer the lot of the top-100, but at the end of the day it's not about whom you flirted with, it's about whom you brought home. And it isn't that he couldn't have those guys, it's that he wouldn't go after anyone who didn't fit the mold at PG (6'1"+ and solidly built) which unfortunately included a lot of top-100 kids.

Buzz put his main recruiting focus on switchables. That was reflected in his 11/13 top-100 players and all 6 of the JUCO All-Americans he landed. And our roster suffered because of it, because at the end of the day, you need someone to run things and someone to defend the paint. We were usually less talented at those positions.

[LAZER]

Hey, we have wins over Tennessee, Georgia Tech, Arizona State - that's awesome - Deonte Burton happened to still be on the team back then.  JJJ got big minutes against Arizona State.

Johnson has had plenty of minutes in BE play and is shooting an awful 26%. Since Carlino went down, he's played 30+ minutes in each game and is shooting 31%.

[brandx]

And here we go again!

The stupidity goes on and on. And, actually it is probably 4 posters who think this way.

But, hey, one of them played in HS - as if a lot of us didn't do the same.

[wadesworld]

The stupidity goes on and on. And, actually it is probably 4 posters who think this way.

But, hey, one of them played in HS - as if a lot of us didn't do the same.

I think that's the main source of Ners's hatred for Wojo.  Ners likes to play up this idea that being the 6th man on Wausau East High school makes him credible, regardless of the fact that a lot of people have played at a much higher level than that that contribute to discussions here.  With Bert here, Ners could continue to pretend that this accomplishment actually meant something and that he was more qualified than not only everybody here, but also than Marquette's coach.  When Wojo, a high school All American and Duke starting point guard, came along, Ners could no longer scream out that he played high school basketball and nobody else in the universe did, so they just don't get the game like Ners does.  So now it's just that Wojo doesn't know how to interact with his players, lies to his players, and is just a downright horrible person, all because he found somebody who claimed to be related to a player on the team, thought it'd make him even more of the cool kid by befriending him, and Texas Western saw how much of a puppet Ners could be for him and has fed him his complete BS.

Playing high school basketball is not something uncommon here.  Now, doing hot yoga might be.  Chick may be the only one on this board who can claim Ners isn't the only one to do that.

[NersEllenson]

If anyone is misguided, it's been you.  For someone that likes to brag about his vast high school basketball experience, you have no idea how coaches dole out minutes. 

Here's where you are misguided:

Our coach last didn't dole out minutes intelligently or effectively.

Our coach this year isn't doling out minutes intelligently or effectively.

I went bearish on least year's team by Thanksgiving and said the season was going to be a disaster if Buzz didn't alter his approach.  Turned out to be a disaster.  

I went bearish on this year's team once I saw Derrick Wilson return to 30+ minutes per game, and then the subsequent transfers of Burton and Dawson.  We are 11-14, and likely headed to a last place finish in the Big East and an overall record of 12-18.

It isn't because Wojo had so little talent in the program upon inheriting the job/roster - it's what he's chosen to do with the talent/roster that has us where we are.

Christ DePaul has been everybody's whipping boy here, and laughing stock, and they have twice as many wins as Marquette this year.  

[NersEllenson]

I think that's the main source of Ners's hatred for Wojo.  Ners likes to play up this idea that being the 6th man on Wausau East High school makes him credible, regardless of the fact that a lot of people have played at a much higher level than that that contribute to discussions here.  With Bert here, Ners could continue to pretend that this accomplishment actually meant something and that he was more qualified than not only everybody here, but also than Marquette's coach.  When Wojo, a high school All American and Duke starting point guard, came along, Ners could no longer scream out that he played high school basketball and nobody else in the universe did, so they just don't get the game like Ners does.  So now it's just that Wojo doesn't know how to interact with his players, lies to his players, and is just a downright horrible person, all because he found somebody who claimed to be related to a player on the team, thought it'd make him even more of the cool kid by befriending him, and Texas Western saw how much of a puppet Ners could be for him and has fed him his complete BS.

Playing high school basketball is not something uncommon here.  Now, doing hot yoga might be.  Chick may be the only one on this board who can claim Ners isn't the only one to do that.

Sorry your volleyball career leads you to form ill-conceived and informed conclusions on the game of basketball.

You do provide great entertainment with regard to your takes on the state of Marquette basketball last year and again this year. 

Perhaps once Wojo can't exceed Tom Crean's win total in his first 5 years on the job, you'll eventually do a 180 on Wojo and tear him apart as you do Tom Crean.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I've decided to post the image below each time a thread is going off the rails with the standard Ners argument, mostly for my own enjoyment.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Some here site all the top 100 talent on the roster and cry over the poor results we are seeing this year, as if Wojo is royally screwing this season up.  The coach who royally screwed this season up is in Blacksburg, VA.  The fact of the matter is we have a top 100 senior who is clearly not playing like he was a top 100 recruit, a top 100 junior who again is clearly not playing like he was a top 100 recruit, and then a bunch of young top 100 players getting their first true season of college basketball in.  1 guy on the roster is over 6'7".  2 guys have the ability to shoot the basketball.  8 guys are eligible to play.  The best player on our roster by far has been out with an injury for nearly half of our conference season.  It's laughable that people somehow think we should be better than we are.  The fact that we have wins over even the likes of Arizona State, Tennessee, Georgia Tech, and Providence while being competitive in all but 3 games is a minor miracle given the makeup of the roster.

Some here think Wojo should've just given more minutes to players who are now out of the program just to give them minutes and keep them happy, regardless of whether they earn the minutes or not.  Just let the guys who double digit numbers next to their name in recruiting rankings run this program, they say.  You don't want to practice hard but still get major minutes in games?  Sure!  You used to dunk in wide open high school AAU settings, so let's keep you happy!  Don't overwork yourself in practice today, fellas, just go out and play 38 minutes of AAU style basketball in the games!

What happens when you do that?  You end up like Seton Hall.  Big time freshman recruits absolutely wrecking a program.  That would be awesome.

Nobody here is happy that we are 11-14.  But anybody with a clue saw it coming, understands that there is a lot of turnover when a new coach comes in, and sees Wojo is going to have this ship righted in due time.  Wojo recruits guys who have a particular skillset and are willing to play within a system.  Wojo wants guys who want to be here, he doesn't just want guys based on a recruiting website.  Unfortunately a few posters have made this place a lot less enjoyable and have caused some very good posters to stop posting some really good information that they used to share, deciding to share it only through PMs and other means besides posting it on this board knowing that it will just turn into a sh!tshow, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that the program is in the right man's hands, and not just for winning basketball games (he will do a lot of that), but for representing the University in a very positive way.

This is perfect.

[BM1090]

Sorry your volleyball career leads you to form ill-conceived and informed conclusions on the game of basketball.

You do provide great entertainment with regard to your takes on the state of Marquette basketball last year and again this year. 

Perhaps once Wojo can't exceed Tom Crean's win total in his first 5 years on the job, you'll eventually do a 180 on Wojo and tear him apart as you do Tom Crean.

So once Wojo turns it around next year or the year after and this program is consistently top 3 in the Big East, will you praise him? Or just disappear?

[jesmu84]

Here's where you are misguided:

Our coach last didn't dole out minutes intelligently or effectively.

Our coach this year isn't doling out minutes intelligently or effectively.

I went bearish on least year's team by Thanksgiving and said the season was going to be a disaster if Buzz didn't alter his approach.  Turned out to be a disaster.  

I went bearish on this year's team once I saw Derrick Wilson return to 30+ minutes per game, and then the subsequent transfers of Burton and Dawson.  We are 11-14, and likely headed to a last place finish in the Big East and an overall record of 12-18.

It isn't because Wojo had so little talent in the program upon inheriting the job/roster - it's what he's chosen to do with the talent/roster that has us where we are.

Christ DePaul has been everybody's whipping boy here, and laughing stock, and they have twice as many wins as Marquette this year.  

Question for you... does any of the above matter to you if Wojo has MU in a successful position in 3-4 years?

[dgies9156]

OK, this one just bugs the living daylights out of me.

We're off the rails, I agree, but we have a coach who is trying and trying again. He comes with the hand he's dealt with and until he gets his own team in here -- his own players et al -- we're going to have some growing pains.

I said earlier, two years ago we were Elite 8 and winning loseable games. We pulled a game against Davidson not just out of the frypan but so far down in the fire the only person we saw was Satan. We were on track to be what my generation expects Marquette to be. Then the Hillbilly self destructed. He recruited players that have generally limited basketball IQs and don't mesh. As best I can tell, of the five guys returning next year, three are core, one might be and one could be.

Ners, and yes, I'm calling you out, you can put Derrick on the bench all you want and nothing will change. We'd still be 3-10. JJJ would still have a mediocre shot and we still would be four players down from where we should be. I think we lost a couple this year (think Georgetown, DePaul, Butler) because we were one player short of where we needed to be.

I'm not going to sit here and question Coach Wojo's judgment on Burton or Dawson because I'm not in practices, I'm not in meetings and I have not yet developed the ability to read minds. What I know is that neither Deonte or John wanted to be a Warrior because if they did, they would still be here.

Period.

You don't want to be here? Fine, don't let the door hit you in the a*s on the way out.

We will be good again and I hope that when we are, Ners, you'll be enough of a sport and a Warrior to admit you are wrong and that badgering a senior guard with a shooting deficiency who is giving it his all every game is counterproductive.

[onepost]

Wojo is also recruiting guys with different approaches to the game, personalities, and overall attitudes than Buzz did.  Buzz looked for guys with edges/chips on their shoulders but they often came with baggage and weren't exactly role models.  Every year you heard rumors and knew that SOME OF the guys on the team were up to stuff behind the scenes.  Wojo is having to deal with a lot of crap this year off the court, which can't help his already hard job on the court.

[Tums Festival]

So once Wojo turns it around next year or the year after and this program is consistently top 3 in the Big East, will you praise him? Or just disappear?

I hope it's this one.

[Class71]

Time to ignore the brilliant HS player. Civil discussion is a hopeless cause.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

This thread is like chumming the water when a nice, simple nymph would have done.

[NersEllenson]

Question for you... does any of the above matter to you if Wojo has MU in a successful position in 3-4 years?

Does the fact we underachieved in Wojo's first year matter if we are successful under Wojo in 3-4 years?  No, it won't matter - the past is the past.  Does it matter right now, here, in the present?  Yes.  I don't enjoy watching Marquette lose at a higher rate since Bob Dukiet, while watching a coach max minutes for an overmatched player and never deviate.

I've said before, I think Wojo is good with the X's and O's, largely.  I'll be ecstatic if he can achieve a level of success at MU somewhere between what Tom Crean and Buzz Williams achieved.  I'll be shocked if he exceeds what Buzz did, and I also believe he'll be hard pressed to match Crean's accomplishments at MU.

I give credit where credit is due - hell I've given Derrick credit after each game he's played well.  If Wojo performs, I'll give him all the credit in the world - it won't change the fact that in my view he had a very poor first year on the job.  I don't doubt Wojo's work ethic at all.  We'll see if he can be successful with the guys he recruits into the program.  Hopefully so.

[mattyv1908]

But at the end of the day, it's who you land. Buzz didn't go after Kris Dunn when he wanted to come here, pursued Gabe York, and lost both. Buzz didn't give a second look to Tyler Ulis, who he thought was too small (despite the success of Acker and Cooby). That's a guy he could have had early but instead went after other targets and when Ulis blew up saw him go to Kentucky.

At times it seemed like Buzz offered everyone in the top-25, but didn't land any of them. I remember at one point looking at a very-early top-25 list and seeing Marquette listed with 14/25 players. We ended up with none of them. That was one problem with Buzz's strategy. He threw a lot of lines in the water, but ultimately ended up only landing his second and third tier targets, and rarely were any of those guys point guards.

If you include the 2014 class that mostly departed, Buzz landed 13 top-100 players. Two of them were PGs (Junior and Duane) and none of them were centers. 84.6% of his top-100 players were wing players. You can send a letter to anyone and offer the lot of the top-100, but at the end of the day it's not about whom you flirted with, it's about whom you brought home. And it isn't that he couldn't have those guys, it's that he wouldn't go after anyone who didn't fit the mold at PG (6'1"+ and solidly built) which unfortunately included a lot of top-100 kids.

Buzz put his main recruiting focus on switchables. That was reflected in his 11/13 top-100 players and all 6 of the JUCO All-Americans he landed. And our roster suffered because of it, because at the end of the day, you need someone to run things and someone to defend the paint. We were usually less talented at those positions.

Brew,

The other side of this coin is that if you only target the specific guys you want and then miss on them it leaves you potentially very late to the game on other top tier talent.

I don't know if one philosophy is worse than the other personally.  I'm sure had either Vander or McKay been on the roster last year we're in the NCAAT yet again and if both ended up staying we're a potential final four team so it's hard to fault Buzz's approach to recruiting when the biggest problem with last season was a very poor decision by a player to leave early for the NBA.

Hopefully Wojo is successful in his approach, as comparing him to Buzz is really irrelevant.  My fear is that given our proximity to a school which has the market on good stretch bigs that can shoot in state that we may lose the recruiting battles on those kids in our geographical sphere of influence.  At Duke you can almost get your pick on which 3-4 nationally ranked kids that fit your needs every year.  Wojo doesn't have that luxury at Marquette.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Does the fact we underachieved in Wojo's first year matter if we are successful under Wojo in 3-4 years?  No, it won't matter - the past is the past.  Does it matter right now, here, in the present?  Yes.  I don't enjoy watching Marquette lose at a higher rate since Bob Dukiet, while watching a coach max minutes for an overmatched player and never deviate.

I've said before, I think Wojo is good with the X's and O's, largely.  I'll be ecstatic if he can achieve a level of success at MU somewhere between what Tom Crean and Buzz Williams achieved.  I'll be shocked if he exceeds what Buzz did, and I also believe he'll be hard pressed to match Crean's accomplishments at MU.

I give credit where credit is due - hell I've given Derrick credit after each game he's played well.  If Wojo performs, I'll give him all the credit in the world - it won't change the fact that in my view he had a very poor first year on the job.  I don't doubt Wojo's work ethic at all.  We'll see if he can be successful with the guys he recruits into the program.  Hopefully so.

Sorry Ners, you keep being Dukiet up as if the situations were similar of the teams the same quality.  Not close.

You make some valid points, but that one kills you every time.