Ners is right...

[hairy worthen]

I guess my question at this point Tower would be what difference does it make?

When we were 2-2 to start Big East play with a couple of close losses I felt differently about it, but at this point I think it's time to let the youth suffer through the growing pains in hopes that the experience gained translates to improvement.

Win every day. I can't see Wojo playing guys who give him less chance to win now. It's not like we get a better draft pick if we lose more games. What message would it send to the players? Win every day except when I want to fiddle with the line-up.

[GGGG]

If the outcome isn't likely to change then at this point the emphasis has to shift in favor of the players returning.

Again...why?  Getting some game experience isn't going to help as Vander pointed out.

Play to win the game in front of you.

[mattyv1908]

Win every day. I can't see Wojo playing guys who give him less chance to win now. It's not like we get a better draft pick if we lose more games. What message would it send to the players? Win every day except when I want to fiddle with the line-up.

This team is hardly 'winning every day' as it is now.  And I thought the 'paint touches' and 'we're not very good' euphemisms were annoying.

This season is over.  Let's get the guys who will be here next year as much continuity playing together as they can when it doesn't mean anything.

[GooooMarquette]

I guess my question at this point Tower would be what difference does it make?

When we were 2-2 to start Big East play with a couple of close losses I felt differently about it, but at this point I think it's time to let the youth suffer through the growing pains in hopes that the experience gained translates to improvement.

The difference is that it sends the message that Wojo has given up on the season.  I don't care what the record is - when you're a first year coach trying to build a positive mindset around your program, the last thing you want to do is send the message that you give up when things go south.

For those who continue to claim that "it couldn't be worse," all you need to go back and look at the 3 straight easy layups for Creighton when Derrick sat...or ponder the fact that Duane has the 950th best A/T ratio in the country...or note that JJJ is an even worse 3-point shooter than Derrick.

Wojo is doing everything he can to win games, and for now that includes playing Derrick at PG.  And I expect him to do it until the last game.

[tower912]

mattyv, in another year, with a roster full of young guys who haven't gotten off of the bench, my attitude could be different.    This year, I can't see voluntarily only playing 6-6.5 players when everybody on the team is already receiving more minutes than their play justifies.  

[Vander Blue Man Group]

This team is hardly 'winning every day' as it is now.  And I thought the 'paint touches' and 'we're not very good' euphemisms were annoying.

This season is over.  Let's get the guys who will be here next year as much continuity playing together as they can when it doesn't mean anything.

Again, that kind of continuity is not going to be built over 5-10 additional minutes over 6 games.  The idea is coming from a good place but I don't think it will happen because the chances of it making any sort of a difference is pretty minimal.  Anyone hoping that Derrick is suddenly going to lose 10-15 MPG is setting themselves up for disappointment.  

[NersEllenson]

As I recall, off fairly simple pick and rolls too.

Against Creighton, we finally had Duane and JJJ in the backcourt together with no Derrick and no Carlino.  Layup, layup, layup for Creighton.    Wojo had to bring Derrick back into the game. 

It was Artino who was scoring on all of that pick and roll action.  It wasn't the guards.  But, I understand - anything you two an do to try to support the notion that we HAVE to have Derrick on the floor.  It's been 2 years running now and nothing is going to change your minds.

[GooooMarquette]

It was Artino who was scoring on all of that pick and roll action.  It wasn't the guards.  But, I understand - anything you two an do to try to support the notion that we HAVE to have Derrick on the floor.  It's been 2 years running now and nothing is going to change your minds.

What position does Derrick usually cover on defense?  Hint:  It usually isn't the opposing team's guards.

Derrick leaves the floor, and the opposing team's bigs have a field day.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

It was Artino who was scoring on all of that pick and roll action.  It wasn't the guards.  But, I understand - anything you two an do to try to support the notion that we HAVE to have Derrick on the floor.  It's been 2 years running now and nothing is going to change your minds.

Maybe they are just saying that all of our options kind of suck as of right now.  For example, Duane is much more talented than Derrick and much better offensively but he is not a better PG at this time and he is not better defensively.  Now that is not me saying Derrick is a good player or that he deserves 35 MPG.  You've gotta be able to separate the two things.  We are not a well-rounded team.  For every strength a player brings there is just as big of a weakness - that's why our record is what it is.  

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Any development that comes from these changes over 6 games will be minimal.  Let me make this perfectly clear - this is not a defense of Derrick.  I don't care if his minutes are cut.  However, any material improvement from Duane, JJJ, and Sandy will come over the offseason and not because they get 5-10 more MPG overall or in different positions for these last 6 games.   

Furthermore, Duane and Carlino are NOT point guards.  At best they are combo guards but each is more of a two.  We are so inept offensively that either of them playing PG and looking to distribute may not be the best solution.   

This. Perfectly stated.

I realize fans are just frustrated, but think about what you're saying, guys.

6 games left. "Get (insert player) more minutes!"

Do you really think and extra 5 or 10mpg for the next 6 games is going to make any difference for next season?

For whatever reason, this board has become hyper-obsessed with playing time.

Figure these guys play/practice around 700+ hours per year. You really think an extra 30 min. of playing time in this season is going to make a difference?

Truthfully, the best thing that could happen is that the underclassmen start kicking Derrick and Juan's butt in practice and straight up TAKE their minutes. Now THAT would have value.

[GGGG]

Nevermind.

Canned is right.  If Derrick is so bad, Duane should be able to take his minutes away.  He hasn't.  John Dawson didn't. 

But it's still Wojo's fault.    

[tower912]

Canned goods and ammo, for two years, that is all anyone would have had to do.   

[NersEllenson]

What position does Derrick usually cover on defense?  Hint:  It usually isn't the opposing team's guards.

Derrick leaves the floor, and the opposing team's bigs have a field day.

LOL - This is rich.  Now if Derrick leaves the floor, opposing team's bigs have a field day.   

And btw - Derrick was guarding Chatman for Creighton, not one of their bigs.

And for the 3 possessions Derrick was on the bench, Artino scored on 2 of them, and the third trip resulted in a trip to the FT line for Brooks.

[hairy worthen]

LOL - This is rich.  Now if Derrick leaves the floor, opposing team's bigs have a field day.   

And btw - Derrick was guarding Chatman for Creighton, not one of their bigs.

And for the 3 possessions Derrick was on the bench, Artino scored on 2 of them, and the third trip resulted in a trip to the FT line for Brooks.

If Chatman blows by his defender and Luke has to give help, that leaves his man open. Having played high school basketball you should know how team defense works.

[GooooMarquette]

LOL - This is rich.  Now if Derrick leaves the floor, opposing team's bigs have a field day.  

And btw - Derrick was guarding Chatman for Creighton, not one of their bigs.

And for the 3 possessions Derrick was on the bench, Artino scored on 2 of them, and the third trip resulted in a trip to the FT line for Brooks.

You are such an easy target.

Derrick left when it was 51-46.  Creighton's next three scores (per ESPN Gametrack) were "Will Artino made Layup."  "Will Artino made Layup.  Assisted by Austin Chatman."  "Will Artino made Layup.  Assisted by Devin Brooks."  

Never let facts get in the way of your agenda, though....

[GGGG]

Basketball 101.

Luke had to come out to defend the pick and rolls often because a guard (oftentimes, but not solely, JJJ and Duane) couldn't get through the pick.  The same guard also had trouble rotating down to guard the pass to the big.

Granted Luke hardly distinguished himself, but one would thing that a high school basketball superstar would have the basic basketball knowledge to know that a big scoring on a pick and roll is oftentimes the fault of the guard getting picked out on the perimeter.

My recollection (and I would happily admit to be wrong if shown to be wrong), is that Creighton wasn't nearly as effective running pick and rolls with Derrick in the game.

[GooooMarquette]

My recollection (and I would happily admit to be wrong if shown to be wrong), is that Creighton wasn't nearly as effective running pick and rolls with Derrick in the game.

You are not wrong.  Derrick left, and they put on a clinic.

[NersEllenson]

You are such an easy target.

Derrick left when it was 51-46.  Creighton's next three scores (per ESPN Gametrack) were "Will Artino made Layup."  "Will Artino made Layup.  Assisted by Austin Chatman."  "Will Artino made Layup.  Assisted by Devin Brooks."  

Never let facts get in the way of your agenda, though....

Easy target?  That's hilarious.  I just re-watched the possessions Derrick was out, and those that preceded him going to the bench.  We were having trouble with their pick and roll with Derrick in the game - McDermott made a big adjustment at that stage in the game and started playing pick and roll...Derrick got caught in a roll situation where he played himself into defending the big rolling and the big promptly went to go lay the ball in and Luke had to come help on D and got called for a goal tend.  

So to your point above though, so at one point the man Derrick was guarding (Chatman) assisted one of the 3 layups Artino made...so big deal?  1:3 on was facilitated by the player Derrick was defending.

We did manage to score 4 points on the 3 possessions Derrick was on the bench which equals 1.33ppp which is far better than what we do with Derrick in the game.

[mattyv1908]

You are not wrong.  Derrick left, and they put on a clinic.

Now I've jumped all over Ners this year in regards to Derrick for most of the season, but Creighton put on a clinic all game long.  If it wasn't the pick and roll it was the corner three followed up with the 'brilliant' decision to switch to the 1-3-1.

Considering that Creighton had four different sequences in which they scored on three straight possessions, three of which Derrick Wilson was on the floor for, I'd hardly use that as 'evidence' that the team can't afford not to have Derrick Wilson in the game.

[GooooMarquette]

Easy target?  That's hilarious.

Glad I made you laugh.  Lord knows you make me laugh often enough.

I'm done.

[NersEllenson]

Basketball 101.

Luke had to come out to defend the pick and rolls often because a guard (oftentimes, but not solely, JJJ and Duane) couldn't get through the pick.  The same guard also had trouble rotating down to guard the pass to the big.

Granted Luke hardly distinguished himself, but one would thing that a high school basketball superstar would have the basic basketball knowledge to know that a big scoring on a pick and roll is oftentimes the fault of the guard getting picked out on the perimeter.

My recollection (and I would happily admit to be wrong if shown to be wrong), is that Creighton wasn't nearly as effective running pick and rolls with Derrick in the game.

LOl - Is this what sitting in the stands watching high school basketball games told you and your Basketball 101?  

You do realize how contradictory your statement is?  If you can't get over the pick (which was NOT the case) for any of our guys actually OTHER than Derrick (he got pinned on a big on the pick/roll which I referenced earlier where Luke got called for the goal tend) you then actually HAVE to stay with the big, and our big goes on to take the guard driving toward the basket.  You don't do both as you allude to above.  Duh.  In the possessions referenced, our guards Duane and JJJ were getting over the pick - Luke OVER helped on the penetration - and in over helping his man was free for a dump off.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Easy target?  That's hilarious.  I just re-watched the possessions Derrick was out, and those that preceded him going to the bench.  We were having trouble with their pick and roll with Derrick in the game - McDermott made a big adjustment at that stage in the game and started playing pick and roll...Derrick got caught in a roll situation where he played himself into defending the big rolling and the big promptly went to go lay the ball in and Luke had to come help on D and got called for a goal tend.  

So to your point above though, so at one point the man Derrick was guarding (Chatman) assisted one of the 3 layups Artino made...so big deal?  1:3 on was facilitated by the player Derrick was defending.

We did manage to score 4 points on the 3 possessions Derrick was on the bench which equals 1.33ppp which is far better than what we do with Derrick in the game.

My question is why do you still have the game taking up space on your DVR?  The better question may be how many other games do you have ready to access? 

And please don't argue PPP based on a 3 possession sample size.  And yes, I realize you were refuting a 3 possession sample size on the defensive side. 

[NersEllenson]

Glad I made you laugh.  Lord knows you make me laugh often enough.

I'm done.

Thank you.  It will be so nice come next year when I won't have to read ridiculous posts suggesting how vital it is to the team success to have Derrick Wilson on the floor.  

[NersEllenson]

My question is why do you still have the game taking up space on your DVR?  The better question may be how many other games do you have ready to access? 

And please don't argue PPP based on a 3 possession sample size.  And yes, I realize you were refuting a 3 possession sample size on the defensive side. 

Hadn't deleted the game from DVR yet.  Don't have any others saved. 

As for PPP - Yes, it is a small sample size, just as it was the last game when Duane got roughly 3 possessions at PG with Derrick off the floor and we were bad.  What would seem to make sense at this point would be for Wojo to maybe just TRY to see what kind of O-Efficiency we could achieve for a game with Duane playing PG, and limiting Derrick to 10-15 minutes.

I mean we are now down to 174th in the country at 101.4 PPP.  Last year we finished a paltry 108th in the country at 108.9PPP.  WE have generally been in the Top 40 Nationally every year since 2002 other than 2005 (94th) when Marcus Jackson was our PG after Diener went down and 2012 (52nd).

There is one common denominator last year and this year.  TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT WOJO.

[g0lden3agle]

LOl - Is this what sitting in the stands watching high school basketball games told you and your Basketball 101?  

You do realize how contradictory your statement is?  If you can't get over the pick (which was NOT the case) for any of our guys actually OTHER than Derrick (he got pinned on a big on the pick/roll which I referenced earlier where Luke got called for the goal tend) you then actually HAVE to stay with the big, and our big goes on to take the guard driving toward the basket.  You don't do both as you allude to above.  Duh.  In the possessions referenced, our guards Duane and JJJ were getting over the pick - Luke OVER helped on the penetration - and in over helping his man was free for a dump off.

Without debating whether or not it actually happened, what sultan said is the same Damn thing you said, you just didn't read the damn sentence correctly. Sultan is saying the guards couldn't get through the pick so they had to switch, and then the guards couldn't guard who they had to switch to.

THAT is basketball 101, I dunked in high school Rob Lowe