Look to the left on this page, last place fellas!

[Earl Tatum]

Talking about Seton Hall--- I read an article that Whitehead would only pass the ball Delgado's way
and not to a wide open Sterling Gibbs, also Jared Sina quit the team and both he and Gibbs would not go into the dressing room after a recent game. Sina was the point guard and Gibbs the leading scorer. Boy, did the 'Hall take a dive. And aforementioned, we do need a STUD point guard, Freshman or JC.

[Earl Tatum]

Traci Carter?

[Marcus92]

I don't like seeing my team struggle. But it's nothing new, and it doesn't necessarily mean anything for the future.

Al McGuire himself went 8-18 in his first season. Kevin O'Neill led the Warriors to records of 15-14, 11-18 and 16-13 — hardly the precursor of the team that would knock Rick Pitino's Kentucky Wildcats out of the NCAA tourney and advance to the Sweet 16 just 2 years later.

Good players and good coaches don't always win. But when they don't, they keep fighting, keep working, learn what they can and find a way to come back stronger. Only time will tell. But I see a lot to look forward to.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

He's really just the 6'10" version of JJJ that always gets a free pass for his poor play.

Except that Luke shoots much, much, better and can occasionally play defense.

[mattyv1908]

Except that Luke shoots much, much, better and can occasionally play defense.

Considering all his shots are from inside of six feet he should be shooting better than any of our back court players.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Wrong again, Sultan. He can reduce Derrick's minutes and put Duane/Carlino to more minutes at PG, distributing those reduced minutes of Derrick's to Sandy and JJJ.

Duane *might* be able to play the point, but I think he is much better suited as the two guard.  I think he would hurt his development forcing the responsibility of the point on him.  That said, they may not have a better alternative next year.

I don't think Carlino was ever an option at PG.  He looked completely unable to break a press.  At the first sign of pressure he starts dribbling backwards and looking frantic, and his passing has been erratic.  And, I think he is much better as a catch and shoot guy than creating off the dribble.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Considering all his shots are from inside of six feet he should be shooting better than any of our back court players.

He is.  10% better than the next best (Juan ??!?!) and 20% better than JJJ.

[mattyv1908]

He is.  10% better than the next best (Juan ??!?!) and 20% better than JJJ.

Right - AS HE SHOULD BE.

[NersEllenson]

Considering all his shots are from inside of six feet he should be shooting better than any of our back court players...except Derrick Wilson who only shoots from inside of six feet other than his 3 point FG attempts on the season

Fixed.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I agree on court performance matters a ton to judge a player - which is why it is hard to eval a guy who gets 10-15 minutes per game every third game.   And was the 2013 class on court performance really "not pretty?"  Buzz greatly limited all of Burton, JJJ and Dawson last year.  So really, the data we had in the way of their on court capabilities was still limited.  Nonetheless,  Burton was good enough in 12 minutes per game to get All Big East freshman honors.  JJJ largely got an incomplete, yet most Top 30 recruits are not busts.  And Dawson, in his limited Big East playing time was performing on par with a 3-star recruit.  Actually, it could be argued Dawson's play in Big East was on the level of what Sandy Cohen has performed thus far - albeit Dawson's minutes were less, and role far more inconsistent than the consistent playing time Cohen has gotten.

But, I know you and others on your side of the aisle have your narrative - That the deck was so stacked against Wojo this year, that the 11-14 record and last place in the Big East is on par with what could be expected.

And this is where we will never agree. You and others hoped against hope that Big Bad Buzz Williams was giving the administration a middle finger by benching our best players. And that as soon as Wojo took the shackles off, we would be good again. The rest of us said "huh, they can't even earn minutes on this crappy team, they must be limited players." Which is what I think most people would assume in that situation. Then when Wojo took over and did the same thing as the previous administration, most people accepted what they had denied the previous season.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Fixed.

So throwing in a jab at Derrick was necessary to a conversation about Luke Fischer?

[NersEllenson]

And this is where we will never agree. You and others hoped against hope that Big Bad Buzz Williams was giving the administration a middle finger by benching our best players. And that as soon as Wojo took the shackles off, we would be good again. The rest of us said "huh, they can't even earn minutes on this crappy team, they must be limited players." Which is what I think most people would assume in that situation. Then when Wojo took over and did the same thing as the previous administration, most people accepted what they had denied the previous season.

Jake Thomas played more minutes than Todd Mayo.

Juan Anderson played more minutes than Deonte Burton.

And PS:  I wouldn't exactly endorse Buzz or Wojo's coaching performance these last two years.  Their decision-making got us exactly what we earned:  horse sh$t record both seasons relative to the talent on the roster.

[mattyv1908]

And this is where we will never agree. You and others hoped against hope that Big Bad Buzz Williams was giving the administration a middle finger by benching our best players. And that as soon as Wojo took the shackles off, we would be good again. The rest of us said "huh, they can't even earn minutes on this crappy team, they must be limited players." Which is what I think most people would assume in that situation. Then when Wojo took over and did the same thing as the previous administration, most people accepted what they had denied the previous season.

TAMU-

You know I've advocated for Derrick this season when talking to Ners, but at this point in the season there's really no harm.

I understand Seton Hall played a horrible game against us, but even so nobody hear gave us much of a chance without Carlino.  That win for the underclassmen who have all had their ups and downs was important.  Hanging on to win a close game relying on Duane Wilson, JJJ and Cohen was huge.

I'd much prefer any 'experimentation' with Duane at the point happen at this point of a meaningless season rather than in any game next year that actually has an impact on a team with a fresh slate.  Either he shows you enough that you can build and teach from it or he doesn't, but it doesn't change the outcome of what the 2014-2015 MUBB program has done.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Jake Thomas played more minutes than Todd Mayo.

Juan Anderson played more minutes than Deonte Burton.

And PS:  I wouldn't exactly endorse Buzz or Wojo's coaching performance these last two years.  Their decision-making got us exactly what we earned:  horse sh$t record both seasons relative to the talent on the roster.

Jake Thomas was our only three point shooter.

Todd Mayo had off the court issues.

Most importantly, they played different positions so were usually on the court at the same time.

Deonte was better than Juan overall. But Juan was the superior rebounder and defender.

Last season we had enough talent to win...except our quarterback sucked. And the backup sucked worse. We were the Cleveland Browns. (Yes, I just made a joke at Johnny Football's expense)

Going into this season, any neutral observer could have told you that we only had the talent for at best a 7th place finish in conference.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU-

You know I've advocated for Derrick this season when talking to Ners, but at this point in the season there's really no harm.

I understand Seton Hall played a horrible game against us, but even so nobody hear gave us much of a chance without Carlino.  That win for the underclassmen who have all had their ups and downs was important.  Hanging on to win a close game relying on Duane Wilson, JJJ and Cohen was huge.

I'd much prefer any 'experimentation' with Duane at the point happen at this point of a meaningless season rather than in any game next year that actually has an impact on a team with a fresh slate.  Either he shows you enough that you can build and teach from it or he doesn't, but it doesn't change the outcome of what the 2014-2015 MUBB program has done.

I understand and accept this logic.

I just put a lesser value on playing time when it comes to player development.

The 30ish extra minutes of playing time the young guys would get aren't going to make them that much better. I'd understand if a coach instead wanted to use those minutes to reward upperclassmen who are playing their final games. I'd also understand why a coach would want to win every game, regardless of the team's record.

Basically, at this point, I don't care who gets playing time. As long as Wojo doesn't start playing the twins during actual game time.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

TAMU-

You know I've advocated for Derrick this season when talking to Ners, but at this point in the season there's really no harm.

I understand Seton Hall played a horrible game against us, but even so nobody hear gave us much of a chance without Carlino.  That win for the underclassmen who have all had their ups and downs was important.  Hanging on to win a close game relying on Duane Wilson, JJJ and Cohen was huge.

I'd much prefer any 'experimentation' with Duane at the point happen at this point of a meaningless season rather than in any game next year that actually has an impact on a team with a fresh slate.  Either he shows you enough that you can build and teach from it or he doesn't, but it doesn't change the outcome of what the 2014-2015 MUBB program has done.

I'm not sure why you keep insisting that having Duane play point in 6 meaningless games at the end of the season when he likely has not practiced in that manner is going to have any significant positive impact.  Once again, any material improvement will happen in the offseason.  Let it go.   

[Lennys Tap]

TAMU-

You know I've advocated for Derrick this season when talking to Ners, but at this point in the season there's really no harm.

I understand Seton Hall played a horrible game against us, but even so nobody hear gave us much of a chance without Carlino.  That win for the underclassmen who have all had their ups and downs was important.  Hanging on to win a close game relying on Duane Wilson, JJJ and Cohen was huge.

I'd much prefer any 'experimentation' with Duane at the point happen at this point of a meaningless season rather than in any game next year that actually has an impact on a team with a fresh slate.  Either he shows you enough that you can build and teach from it or he doesn't, but it doesn't change the outcome of what the 2014-2015 MUBB program has done.

No disagreement. This isn't like last year when we were 17-11, 9-6 and clinging to some thread of hope for the season. Hope left the building awhile ago. I don't think Duane is a point guard but there's no harm in finding out for sure.

[willie warrior]

Duane *might* be able to play the point, but I think he is much better suited as the two guard.  I think he would hurt his development forcing the responsibility of the point on him.  That said, they may not have a better alternative next year.

I don't think Carlino was ever an option at PG.  He looked completely unable to break a press.  At the first sign of pressure he starts dribbling backwards and looking frantic, and his passing has been erratic.  And, I think he is much better as a catch and shoot guy than creating off the dribble.

But Carlino does play the point when Derrick sits for three minutes in a game. So he was and is an option at PG. He has played PG in the past. Duane played PG in HS.

Bot no, we can't reduce Derrick's minutes to give some time to Duane at PG to see how he does---because we believe it will hurt us, How????? Might bruise some egos if it works out? Huh, maybe?

[g0lden3agle]

But Carlino does play the point when Derrick sits for three minutes in a game. So he was and is an option at PG. He has played PG in the past. Duane played PG in HS.

Bot no, we can't reduce Derrick's minutes to give some time to Duane at PG to see how he does---because we believe it will hurt us, How????? Might bruise some egos if it works out? Huh, maybe?

Do you really think Carlino was at his best with the ball in his hands vs. off the ball working off screens?

[NersEllenson]

Jake Thomas was our only three point shooter.

Todd Mayo had off the court issues.

Most importantly, they played different positions so were usually on the court at the same time.

Deonte was better than Juan overall. But Juan was the superior rebounder and defender.

Last season we had enough talent to win...except our quarterback sucked. And the backup sucked worse. We were the Cleveland Browns. (Yes, I just made a joke at Johnny Football's expense)

Going into this season, any neutral observer could have told you that we only had the talent for at best a 7th place finish in conference.

Well I do appreciate you finally essentially admitting what the real reason was for why we lost last year after being picked to win the Big East conference with more returning experience under a proven coach, Buzz, than ever before.

[g0lden3agle]

Well I do appreciate you finally essentially admitting what the real reason was for why we lost last year after being picked to win the Big East conference with more returning experience under a proven coach, Buzz, than ever before.

You say that like it's the first time TAMU has admitted we could have used a better PG

[jsglow]

No disagreement. This isn't like last year when we were 17-11, 9-6 and clinging to some thread of hope for the season. Hope left the building awhile ago. I don't think Duane is a point guard but there's no harm in finding out for sure.

Fair.  I think Wojo will take a continuing opportunity to evaluate Du at the point, especially with Carlino back.

[NersEllenson]

You say that like it's the first time TAMU has admitted we could have used a better PG

It's the first time TAMU admitted THE reason why we were bad last year.  I respect him for finally acknowledging the obvious, even while others tried to delude themselves into thinking there were other reasons we were bad last year.

[BM1090]

Jake Thomas played more minutes than Todd Mayo.

Juan Anderson played more minutes than Deonte Burton.

And PS:  I wouldn't exactly endorse Buzz or Wojo's coaching performance these last two years.  Their decision-making got us exactly what we earned:  horse sh$t record both seasons relative to the talent on the roster.

This is where I disagree with you. What talent is on the roster this year? Where is it?

We have 8 players which I would categorize as follows:

2 (Juan and Derrick) who are overmatched at this level of competition, and never should have been recruited to this high of a level. Both are high character, max effort guys, but neither have any business being high minute players on a good team.

3 (Carlino, Duane, Luke) who are legitimate high major starters, but 2 of them have less than a year of college basketball experience.

2 (Sandy and JJJ) who are wildcards, they have potential and could end up being good players with time but are clearly not there yet. Each have things they need to work on to develop into legitimate high major players.

1 (Taylor) who is playing badly out of position and I'm not quite sure how to categorize. Sure looked like a high major player year 1. Wasn't good at all year 2. Has shown that he could be a contributor if playing his preferred position in year 3, but nothing is guaranteed with him. Injuries may have robbed him of a better career.

How can you look at this roster and say we've badly underachieved? Buzz completely whiffed on the 2011 and 2012 recruiting classes, and it's left us in a situation where we have significantly less talent than every team in our league, minus DePaul and Creighton. It's been frustrating as hell to be a MU fan this year, but it's not because we're underachieving. We have very limited talent.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Well I do appreciate you finally essentially admitting what the real reason was for why we lost last year after being picked to win the Big East conference with more returning experience under a proven coach, Buzz, than ever before.

Have said it many times before. I didn't think Derrick was good. I just thought Dawson, Mayo, and Jamil at point were worse. I also think that there were many more issues on the team than just Derrick.