Optimistic About Wojo

[mu_hilltopper]

That is true but you need to be realistic. Yes, if Juan suddenly became a Lazar-type player, Carlino was actually reincarnated Steve Alford, STJr morphed into Jae Crowder and Derrick reminded everyone of Aaron Hutchins 2.0, the team would be much more successful. However, there was absolutely no reason to believe that anything even close to that would happen.

Are you one of those fans who was expecting Dameon Mason to become the next Dwyane Wade?

Really?  You think I'm the type who thought/expected STJr would change into Crowder, or Juan into Lazar?  Because that would be idiotic.  C'mon. 

[MerrittsMustache]

Really?  You think I'm the type who thought/expected STJr would change into Crowder, or Juan into Lazar?  Because that would be idiotic.  C'mon. 

What exactly were you expecting from these guys? You stated that they improved but "zero of them turned into the players we needed to be successful this year." What were your so-called realistic expectations?

[ATL MU Warrior]

Ok, ok, you guys got me.  I should have used the phrase "much better" instead of "any better." 

As was suggested, the bar was pretty low, so yeah, they got fractionally better I'll grant you that .. if you grant me that zero of them turned into the players we needed to be successful this year.

You mean none of them somehow split in half and formed clones of themselves?  Because that's about the only thing that would have led us to be successful this year.

[GGGG]

Ok, ok, you guys got me.  I should have used the phrase "much better" instead of "any better."  

As was suggested, the bar was pretty low, so yeah, they got fractionally better I'll grant you that .. if you grant me that zero of them turned into the players we needed to be successful this year.

But how much improvement did you expect? Players don't usually make giant leaps from one year to the next.  Most gradually improve as they hone their craft, get physically stronger, and gain experience.

My guess is that your expectations were too high.

[JakeBarnes]

But how much improvement did you expect? Players don't usually make giant leaps from one year to the next.  Most gradually improve as they hone their craft, get physically stronger, and gain experience.

My guess is that your expectations were too high.

then we are not a blue blood

[mu03eng]

Ok, ok, you guys got me.  I should have used the phrase "much better" instead of "any better." 

As was suggested, the bar was pretty low, so yeah, they got fractionally better I'll grant you that .. if you grant me that zero of them turned into the players we needed to be successful this year.

Here is where I question the realistic nature of your expectations and perhaps question the placing of your doubt.

The players are better than they were last year, just a question for you to what degree.....what is a reasonable degree of improvement.  Additionally, Wojo is playing with the deck of cards Buzz left behind.  Wojo is having to adapt to those players and their abilities.  So he is having to develop those players plus alter whatever his steady-state philosophy would be.

If there is a fault in the current talent on the roster, that lies with Buzz(with the exception of Sandy).  Just because Wojo may not be able to develop the talent that is currently on the roster, doesn't mean he can't develop the roster as it moves forward.

Lastly, this game and the Nova one are very bad and disheartening but we were very competitive in every other game, if you get 2 or 3 to bounce the other way(Carlino's foot smaller by a cm, bad calls in the Georgetown game, etc) we are all singing a different tune.  This team will be light years better than next year, you can count on it.

[mu03eng]

I'm very optimistic about Wojo, and I predict someone surfaces this thread 5 years from now and we all have a good chuckle about what morons we all were.

There are definitely things you can fault in Wojo's first year, but I think in total there are far more positives than negatives.  My list:

-Can admit when he is wrong (Sandy/DePaul)
-Can alter his preferred style (going to zone, etc)
-Has the team engaged despite the results to date
-Learns (professional T in X game, etc)
-Coaches to win, not lose
-Can recruit
-Can engage media and handle MU PR with class

I'm probably forgetting a few things.  Respect the process.

[naginiF]

I'm very optimistic about Wojo, and I predict someone surfaces this thread 5 years from now and we all have a good chuckle about what morons we all were.

There are definitely things you can fault in Wojo's first year, but I think in total there are far more positives than negatives.  My list:

-Can admit when he is wrong (Sandy/DePaul)
-Can alter his preferred style (going to zone, etc)
-Has the team engaged despite the results to date
-Learns (professional T in X game, etc)
-Coaches to win, not lose
-Can recruit
-Can engage media and handle MU PR with class

I'm probably forgetting a few things.  Respect the process.

Careful, TexWestern will drop you from his newletter distribution with that kind of talk.

.....I'm also in the very optimistic and looking forward to the learnings camp

[mu03eng]

Careful, TexWestern will drop you from his newletter distribution with that kind of talk.

.....I'm also in the very optimistic and looking forward to the learnings camp

[muwarrior69]

Outside shooting.  Offensive rebounding.  PG play.  Fischer being slight and getting gassed early, plus please learn a quick turnaround jump shot.  Thats what is killing the team this year with the 7/8 guys. 

Ding! Ding! Ding! How many open shots and easy layups have we missed this season? I can't count that high.

[Badgerhater]

Good post.

 Will be shocked if he wins 100 games in his first 5 years on the job as Crean and Buzz did.

Crean went 15-14 in his first two seasons and had 102 wins in five years and Mike Deane won 100 games in five years with one season at 14-15.    Way too soon for your prediction.

[mu_hilltopper]

My expectations for players year/year growth is a modicum.  A skosh.  A tad.  A dash.  An Iota or two.  Three smidgens.   

I'm not demanding.

[MU82]

My expectations for players year/year growth is a modicum.  A skosh.  A tad.  A dash.  An Iota or two.  Three smidgens.   

I'm not demanding.

Then you should be thrilled.

Juan improved way more than a skosh. Taylor improved more than a tad. JJJ improved about a dash. And Derrick has probably improved an iota or a smidgen.

Or perhaps you have forgotten about how dreadful each of them was last year? And I mean DREADFUL.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Marquette needs more Tom Sawyers.

Traditional.

[bilsu]

On the contrary .. besides performing (far) above expectations signing new recruits .. every other aspect of the program is below expectations.     While no one expected big things this year, the expectations were to be around 6th place .. few thought we'd be fighting to stay out of last place.

6th place, whose expectations were that? Most magazines predicted anywhere from 9th to 7th and that was with Mayo.

[Dr. Blackheart]

This is the worst MU team in 51 years...what matter if it's a sixth place ribbon or tenth? MU is horrible, top to bottom. Time for the reset for the future. For whatever reasons, some of the best scorers and an early Wojo recruit jumped shipped as did three pretty good signed recruits who were offensively inclined. Wojo had a part in that, fair or not. His first year plan was not good--as he had no back-up plan. Sorry, that's on him as he inherited the dysfunction before him, and he should have known it. Say what you will about Buzz's misses, but he moved on his mistakes right away. It is too bad these all ended in roster voids.

Early on, it was about creating a brotherhood for the incumbents. Build a new locker room and culture, etc. Well, a good portion of those players are already gone, and three more are about to graduate. Wojo gave some feel good speeches. Hasn't worked out yet. It will be a full five year plan here at this point, so be patient.

Then, it was all about individual skills workouts in the summer versus strength and conditioning under Buzz. With Todd Smith, this was a strength of MU's program.That is obviously lacking in the BE grind. The previous ACC where Wojo came from was a finesse league.The BE is a physical league and called that way, and the round robin format where coaches adjust is something he and his staff have not caught up with yet.

The new summer rules allowed more time to work on team offense and defense, something a new coach should spend an inordinate time on going into his first season anyway. It became evident early on in the Cupcake games that the defense was substandard...and the offense is looking like the worst in MU's statistical history, if not in the Big East's. The emphasis on the personal workouts doesn't seem to be paying team or individual dividends. He has made some very good adjustments on defense that have been impressive.

The last is school fit. The new President and new Big 4 Consultant Chair made this call. Some early on who know the program pushed hard for Shaka. Close but no cigar. Some in the know and/or in the AD, wanted Martin...some wanted some other experienced head coaches we all heard. In the end, Wojo gave good PowerPoint. He is a great school fit and program builder, and leaders have a lot of confidence in him and his resume as they reset the university and conference. It will take a full five years at this point...and my major question as it has been all along, is he going to or be allowed to recruit south of the Cheddar Line? HE was a great get. But, The Big East is an urban, physical and athletic league, and the HE class success needs to be followed up on. It is a head scratcher that MU is backing off a talent like Stone while Bucky is willing to? Do the newcomers know what it takes to win at Marquette and the Big East?

Rip away...but playing to win now with seniors as the primary focus will end the same as playing the future now for experience and evaluation this year, but MU will be in a better place tomorrow. In the gloom, obviously doubts abound, but there is a lot to improve upon. Pretty sure Wojo knows that as his emotions show and as he matures. Buzz is a soldier of fortune.  Wojo is a program builder who needs time.

[naginiF]

This is the worst MU team in 51 years......but playing to win now with seniors as the primary focus will end the same as playing the future now for experience and evaluation this year, but MU will be in a better place tomorrow. In the gloom, obviously doubts abound, but there is a lot to improve upon. Pretty sure Wojo knows that as his emotions show and as he matures. Buzz is a soldier of fortune.  Wojo is a program builder who needs time.

I really did not understand where you were going until the last sentence.  You seem to both berate and support at the same time.  However, your passion for the program and interest in the future is awesome.  The undertone that our program is bigger than a single season, coach or recruiting class is something we all need to keep in mind

[mu03eng]

It is a head scratcher that MU is backing off a talent like Stone while Bucky is willing to? Do the newcomers know what it takes to win at Marquette and the Big East?

Dr. not to merge other threads, but I think your hanging on to this weakens your argument.  Bucky isn't going to go after Stone.  MU chose to move on from Stone and I commend Wojo and the admin for doing so.  Taking Stone is actually the lazy way out.  There are reasons to move on that aren't apparent to the lay person....if they chose to bring Stone in, everyone goes insane at how good a recruiter Wojo is, plus he is an obvious talent....so they had all the incentive to bring him in and didn't.  It's not a bad thing.

One other thing, the gaps on this roster are a function of Buzz Williams not Wojo, full stop.  Two of the recruits followed Buzz to VPI and the third went to a top 5 program where he is getting good minutes while MU is real building....how does any of that go on Wojo?  Mayo is gone, but thats almost entirely because he shouldn't have been here in the first place.  Even with Buzz staying and his full recruiting class there were gaps in the roster that we would have been hard pressed to fill.

It is a long game here.  Again if we make the sweet 16 next year and the elite 8 the following year, we'll all look back and laugh at this.  We are on the right path IMO

[ChicosBailBonds]

Doc, with all due respect, this is not the worst team in 51 years. The 10-18 MU team under Dukiet was putrid.  This team would beat that team handily.  There were some others in that era that were awful.

[NersEllenson]

Dr. not to merge other threads, but I think your hanging on to this weakens your argument.  Bucky isn't going to go after Stone.  MU chose to move on from Stone and I commend Wojo and the admin for doing so.  Taking Stone is actually the lazy way out.  There are reasons to move on that aren't apparent to the lay person....if they chose to bring Stone in, everyone goes insane at how good a recruiter Wojo is, plus he is an obvious talent....so they had all the incentive to bring him in and didn't.  It's not a bad thing.

One other thing, the gaps on this roster are a function of Buzz Williams not Wojo, full stop.  Two of the recruits followed Buzz to VPI and the third went to a top 5 program where he is getting good minutes while MU is real building....how does any of that go on Wojo?  Mayo is gone, but thats almost entirely because he shouldn't have been here in the first place.  Even with Buzz staying and his full recruiting class there were gaps in the roster that we would have been hard pressed to fill.

It is a long game here.  Again if we make the sweet 16 next year and the elite 8 the following year, we'll all look back and laugh at this.  We are on the right path IMO

I'm really curious about how you are projecting us to be a potential Sweet 16/Elite 8 team next year - you've written this many times regarding your outlook for next season?  What are you basing that off of?

[GGGG]

Then, it was all about individual skills workouts in the summer versus strength and conditioning under Buzz. With Todd Smith, this was a strength of MU's program.That is obviously lacking in the BE grind. The previous ACC where Wojo came from was a finesse league.The BE is a physical league and called that way, and the round robin format where coaches adjust is something he and his staff have not caught up with yet.

The new summer rules allowed more time to work on team offense and defense, something a new coach should spend an inordinate time on going into his first season anyway. It became evident early on in the Cupcake games that the defense was substandard...and the offense is looking like the worst in MU's statistical history, if not in the Big East's. The emphasis on the personal workouts doesn't seem to be paying team or individual dividends. He has made some very good adjustments on defense that have been impressive.

The last is school fit. The new President and new Big 4 Consultant Chair made this call. Some early on who know the program pushed hard for Shaka. Close but no cigar. Some in the know and/or in the AD, wanted Martin...some wanted some other experienced head coaches we all heard. In the end, Wojo gave good PowerPoint. He is a great school fit and program builder, and leaders have a lot of confidence in him and his resume as they reset the university and conference. It will take a full five years at this point...and my major question as it has been all along, is he going to or be allowed to recruit south of the Cheddar Line? HE was a great get. But, The Big East is an urban, physical and athletic league, and the HE class success needs to be followed up on. It is a head scratcher that MU is backing off a talent like Stone while Bucky is willing to? Do the newcomers know what it takes to win at Marquette and the Big East?

Dr. I actually share a number of these concerns about the physicality of the Big East and the types of players being brought in.  I have said this in other threads, but IMO Marquette really need a physical presence on the boards next year, and would love a Juco power forward type who can rebound, play defense, etc. 

That being said, I am not sure how much the strength and conditioning has been de-emphasized under Wojo.  Duane and JJJ have slight frames.  I don't care how much weight they life, you are not going to put a lot of muscle on them.  (Juan and Vander under Buzz were similar.)  Let's just see how the next off-season goes, and what adjustments are made.

And Stone wasn't going to be brought in here no matter the President, AD or coach.

[willie warrior]

Doc, with all due respect, this is not the worst team in 51 years. The 10-18 MU team under Dukiet was putrid.  This team would beat that team handily.  There were some others in that era that were awful.

Don't know about handily. But you would agree that this is reminiscent of Dukiet years?

[GGGG]

Don't know about handily. But you would agree that this is reminiscent of Dukiet years?

The Big East is SOOOO much better than the independent and MCC (Horizon League) schedules played by those Dukiet / early O'Neill teams.  That 1987-88 team lost to the likes of Cleveland State (at home), Iona, Fordham, Evansville, Virginia Tech (at home) and Valparaiso.

And IMO the "young talent" on this year's team FAR surpasses what was on that 1987-88 team.  (Not to mention that Henry Ellenson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gerald Posey)

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Doc, with all due respect, this is not the worst team in 51 years. The 10-18 MU team under Dukiet was putrid.  This team would beat that team handily.  There were some others in that era that were awful.

Agree with Chicos for once.  And on top of that we were loosing in the MCC!?!

[MUDPT]

How does everyone feel about Butler?

1. Three years ago they finished tied for 3rd in the Horizon League
2. A year and a half ago they lost the best coach they have ever had
3. They lost their coach again before this season (possible upgrade to the new guy)
4. Their 2013/2014 recruiting rankings were 6th and 7th in the Big East.

And yet they sit 2nd in the Big East this season.  Is it just coaching? Are their players just better and were diamonds in the rough?  I think Marquette's future is brighter, just trying to figure out how they basically have the exact opposite record as us in the Big East.