The Tan One

[GGGG]

hilarious.  crean is a prick...that's not an insult...that's a fact. the same is true for many college coaches.  i guess i have poor character for rooting for guys like JT3, jay wright, dixon, few, used to love UofA under lute, like izzo, donovan, always liked chaney at temple...and wishing zero wins for bo, crean, buzz, cal, etc...  it's sports...you have players/coaches you like and those you don't...it's not a big deal. 

There are all sorts of people that I don't like in sports.  I have personally met successful coaches who I would have no time for on a personal level.

I just generally don't go around telling everyone about it though.  What's the point?

[wadesworld]

those coaches doing poorly when the leave marquette helps in my opinion.  leaving didn't go so well for KO, TC, BW...interesting how coaches can be more successful at MU than the likes of TN and IU.  plus buzz turned out to be a liar, and crean is a prick.  love watching them loose.  it's sports, i don't wish them poor health, and they're set for life $$$ wise...just fun to have a guy to root against.  it used to be you could watch a team and be a fan of a player for 3-4 years...now most of the good ones go pro in 1-2 years and i think coaches have become the face of the team (at least a little more than in the past).  it was so much fun to watch uconn beat UK last year...and the coaches had a ton to do with it.

Why was it so fun watching UCONN beat UK last year?  UCONN was the higher seed and it's not like they have some squeaky clean program.  Let's not forget that after multiple suspensions, Calhoun was forced to resign due to a number of NCAA infractions.  Not to mention they were just coming off of a postseason ban for their lack of ability to graduate 30%+ of its players.  Heck, they make Cal and his program look clean.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

People attach "good" and "bad" to certain players/coaches, and then love to watch them win/lose.

WWE is entirely based upon this this phenomena.

[avid1010]

Why was it so fun watching UCONN beat UK last year?  UCONN was the higher seed and it's not like they have some squeaky clean program.  Let's not forget that after multiple suspensions, Calhoun was forced to resign due to a number of NCAA infractions.  Not to mention they were just coming off of a postseason ban for their lack of ability to graduate 30%+ of its players.  Heck, they make Cal and his program look clean.

because i like kevin ollie a lot more than i do cal. 

[Silkk the Shaka]

I am completely agnostic on Crean and now on Buzz. Appreciate what they did here but pay little to no attention to them now unless someone else brings 'em up on Scoop (which someone always does).

I gotta say that I don't see how an ex-Marquette coach doing well elsewhere reflects well on us at all. I also don't think if they fell on their faces it would reflect poorly on us one iota.

Completely agree. If a pattern develops that coaches end up doing poorly after leaving us, even at a blue blood slam dunk program like IU, that's gotta eventually stick out to a great coach here. For example, if Wojo ends up taking us to new heights (which I think he will) and Crean is fired for poor performance by that time while Buzz is stuck in the ACC basement, why would he leave unless it's for Duke or the NBA? I want those examples etched firmly in Wojo's brain.

[keefe]

He always represented Marquette well and speaks respectably about the University now. 

If only he spoke respectfully of Marquette

[Daniel]

Completely agree. If a pattern develops that coaches end up doing poorly after leaving us, even at a blue blood slam dunk program like IU, that's gotta eventually stick out to a great coach here. For example, if Wojo ends up taking us to new heights (which I think he will) and Crean is fired for poor performance by that time while Buzz is stuck in the ACC basement, why would he leave unless it's for Duke or the NBA? I want those examples etched firmly in Wojo's brain.

Agree. I cannot see how a coach leaving Marquette and doing very well or better than he ever did at Marquette helps. Marquette.  It just highlights MU as a stepping stone.  On the other hand, if they do great at Marquette, and less great elsewhere, it may seem to deliver the message that hey - you can do better at Marquette and its program than you can at (fill in the blank).  Didn't KO at some point say he regretted leaving Marquette?

[keefe]

Didn't KO at some point say he regretted leaving Marquette?

I said this all the time when I was in flight school...

[Lennys Tap]

People attach "good" and "bad" to certain players/coaches, and then love to watch them win/lose.

WWE is entirely based upon this this phenomena.

The WWE are actors, playing roles.

Coaches and athletes are real people living their own lives.

Only a total idiot would despise Heath Leger because he played the Joker or admire Michael Keaton because he played Batman.

That's not to say that some people aren't irrational about their feelings about coaches and athletes. Many Chicago Bulls fans hated Dennis Rodman on the Pistons and adored him on the Bulls. Personally, I still couldn't stand him even though I root for the Bulls. Maybe that makes me the odd one.

[willie warrior]

If only he spoke respectfully of Marquette

He did once: "I'll be at Marquette as long as they want me". And then with all due respect he was shown the handwriting on the wall.

[Golden Avalanche]

If only he spoke respectfully of Marquette

Saw an interview with him on Big Ten Network last week prior to the Nebraska game and he spoke glowingly of his time at Marquette as they asked him to compare his great guards now at Indiana to his great guards at Marquette.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The WWE are actors, playing roles.

Coaches and athletes are real people living their own lives.

Only a total idiot would despise Heath Leger because he played the Joker or admire Michael Keaton because he played Batman.

That's not to say that some people aren't irrational about their feelings about coaches and athletes. Many Chicago Bulls fans hated Dennis Rodman on the Pistons and adored him on the Bulls. Personally, I still couldn't stand him even though I root for the Bulls. Maybe that makes me the odd one.

Yes and no.

People often project attributes onto their favorite or least favorite player to justify their fandom. Essentially, the players are characters in whatever narrative we want to believe in (as you pointed out with Rodman).

Remember when people thought Michael Jordan was a good guy?

How about Kobe? The narrative is that he changed after his incident in Colorado. Do we actually know that? Kobe could still be a huge dirtbag, and I would have no idea.

People thought Brett Favre was St. Brett. They ignored all of his faults... right up until he put on a purple shirt. Then everything went out the window.

Fans are stupid.

[wadesworld]

He did once: "I'll be at Marquette as long as they want me". And then with all due respect he was shown the handwriting on the wall.

Your lack of ability to comprehend the written word makes your ability to respond intelligently to said written word impossible.

[willie warrior]

Your lack of ability to comprehend the written word makes your ability to respond intelligently to said written word impossible.

Sorry Pal, I comprehend the written word and spoken word very well, thank you. Now in your case, you will need remedial training to gain eligibility to the intelligent reponse category.

[wadesworld]

Sorry Pal, I comprehend the written word and spoken word very well, thank you. Now in your case, you will need remedial training to gain eligibility to the intelligent reponse category.

You responded to a post about Tom Crean with a Buzz Williams quote...

[Silkk the Shaka]

Saw an interview with him on Big Ten Network last week prior to the Nebraska game and he spoke glowingly of his time at Marquette as they asked him to compare his great guards now at Indiana to his great guards at Marquette.

Methinks keefe was merely making a lighthearted play on words (respectably vs. respectfully)

[Silkk the Shaka]

Yes and no.

People often project attributes onto their favorite or least favorite player to justify their fandom. Essentially, the players are characters in whatever narrative we want to believe in (as you pointed out with Rodman).

Remember when people thought Michael Jordan was a good guy?

How about Kobe? The narrative is that he changed after his incident in Colorado. Do we actually know that? Kobe could still be a huge dirtbag, and I would have no idea.

People thought Brett Favre was St. Brett. They ignored all of his faults... right up until he put on a purple shirt. Then everything went out the window.

Fans are stupid.

I AIN"T STUPID

[brewcity77]

Didn't KO at some point say he regretted leaving Marquette?

He did, I believe it was on a broadcast where he said it was a mistake to leave Marquette. Personally, I've become pretty indifferent on what happens once our coaches leave, but I can definitely see Ellenson Family Reunion's point about not wanting guys to view this as a good place to use as a stepping stone. O'Neill never reached the same heights once he left, Crean had some great recruiting success but hasn't returned to the Final Four and seems to be starting to feel the heat, and Buzz went to a basketball wasteland (though with loose recruiting requirements he should be able to turn it around).

I would very much like to have the same coach for 20+ years (never seen that in my lifetime) because that almost certainly means a lot of success both for the coach and the program. Right now, only 6 high-major coaches have been at the same job for more than 15 years: Jim Boeheim, Mike Krzyzewski, Tom Izzo, Billy Donovan, Rick Barnes, and Kevin Stallings. The first four have all won national titles while Barnes and Stallings have overseen the most successful periods in their programs' histories.

Guys that stick that long are rare, though. You maybe see one or two in a lifetime at any given program. I would be satisfied with just one.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Remember when people thought Michael Jordan was a good guy?

He's never been Ward Cleaver, but I still think he's a good guy.

I wonder if IU fans think Crean is a good representative of their school when he screams at Miles and/or that Michigan assistant? If anything, and this is hard to believe, I think Crean has gotten even more insufferable in Bloomington.

[GooooMarquette]

Agree. I cannot see how a coach leaving Marquette and doing very well or better than he ever did at Marquette helps. Marquette.  It just highlights MU as a stepping stone.  On the other hand, if they do great at Marquette, and less great elsewhere, it may seem to deliver the message that hey - you can do better at Marquette and its program than you can at (fill in the blank).  Didn't KO at some point say he regretted leaving Marquette?

+1

The more coaches who view their time at MU as the most successful years of their career, the better.  KO certainly feels that way, and I wouldn't be shocked if TC is starting to feel that way as well.  

[wadesworld]

He's never been Ward Cleaver, but I still think he's a good guy.

I wonder if IU fans think Crean is a good representative of their school when he screams at Miles and/or that Michigan assistant? If anything, and this is hard to believe, I think Crean has gotten even more insufferable in Bloomington.

Why do you say that?  Don't you think the IU faithful would be proud?  I mean, c'mon, that assistant played a major role in ruining the IU program, and Thomas was just reminding him that THIS, not his former way, is HOW YOU WIN AT INDIANA!  He then went on to lose in the Sweet 16, while that assistant coach and his team went on to lose in the National Title game.  Karma...

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

He's never been Ward Cleaver, but I still think he's a good guy.

I wonder if IU fans think Crean is a good representative of their school when he screams at Miles and/or that Michigan assistant? If anything, and this is hard to believe, I think Crean has gotten even more insufferable in Bloomington.

But this is exactly what I'm talking about.

I don't know Mike Jordan. I can't tell you if he's good, bad or indifferent. We've all heard different stuff.

BUT, because he was good at bouncing a ball, and had a nice smile, some people made him out to be a good guy.

How about Tiger Woods? Do we think he's a good guy? Do we think he's fundamentally different now than he was before? How do we know? Good PR?

Fans project attributes onto players/coaches/politicians so they can justify their fandom.  

[GooooMarquette]

But this is exactly what I'm talking about.

I don't know Mike Jordan. I can't tell you if he's good, bad or indifferent. We've all heard different stuff.

BUT, because he was good at bouncing a ball, and had a nice smile, some people made him out to be a good guy.

How about Tiger Woods? Do we think he's a good guy? Do we think he's fundamentally different now than he was before? How do we know? Good PR?

Fans project attributes onto players/coaches/politicians so they can justify their fandom.  

Well said.

LBJ was a hero in Cleveland.  Then he went to Miami and they burned his jersey.  Then he comes back and he's a hero again.

Vander Blue committed to UW-Madison and the fans there loved him.  Then he changed his mind and he was an idiot.

Brett Favre was a hero in GB until he jerked the team around and "retired" and eventually ended up in MN.  Then he was the devil.  Then he admitted he handled it poorly and he's a hero again.

We don't cheer for the players, we cheer for the jerseys they wear....

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

But this is exactly what I'm talking about.

I don't know Mike Jordan. I can't tell you if he's good, bad or indifferent. We've all heard different stuff.

BUT, because he was good at bouncing a ball, and had a nice smile, some people made him out to be a good guy.

How about Tiger Woods? Do we think he's a good guy? Do we think he's fundamentally different now than he was before? How do we know? Good PR?

Fans project attributes onto players/coaches/politicians so they can justify their fandom.  

It's not what you're talking about. I think Jordan is a good guy for reasons other than his basketball ability.

I find Tiger to be a tragic figure who went off the rails when his dad died. I don't think of him as good or bad, although I am not a fan.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

It's not what you're talking about. I think Jordan is a good guy for reasons other than his basketball ability.

I find Tiger to be a tragic figure who went off the rails when his dad died. I don't think of him as good or bad, although I am not a fan.

Fair enough.

I agree with you on Tiger, I think there is some deep seeded psychological stuff going on there. The guy was damn near a perfect golf robot for 30 years. That's not normal.