It's early, but these next two games are huge for MU

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

If Marquette ends up around 9-7 or 10-6 again in the Big East (a very real possibility), these next two games in Hawaii are huge thanks to the rest of our non-conference schedule. The committee has shown they are not afraid to punish teams for playing cupcakes.

Let's not forget that Syracuse went 10-6 in the conference last year and was left out. In fact, if we hadn't defeated Pitt in that GameDay game, we might have been sweating it out last March.

We're going to need a big name win on our resume, especially considering we've got Wisconsin on the road this season.

[muarmy81]

Yep,
I hope we can find some sort of rythm and at least make the finals in this tourney because right now I don't like our chances against UW.  Hopefully someone can find some sort of touch from the outside and we can continue to pressure the ball around the perimeter. (And hopefully rebound better)

and that's it 

[mu_hilltopper]

I'll guarantee you, at the end of the season, we won't be 10-6.   

I agree .. but it's like this every season.  We've got 2-4 resume builders in OOC games each year.    I'd say, every game vs. a <100 RPI team is big.

[DegenerateDish]

PRN is preaching to the choir here, I've been saying this since our sked came out. I said the biggest game on our sked is @ Wisconsin (not that these next two and the BE games aren't important). That's our only true OOC road game, and while what you do in conference is huge, these games are critical. MU has to go 2-1 at a minimum against Ok. St, Duke/Illinois, and Wisco.

[TallTitan34]

I think a big part of winning tonight is getting to play a quality team in Duke. It will help our RPI having played them.

[Big Papi]

PRN is preaching to the choir here, I've been saying this since our sked came out. I said the biggest game on our sked is @ Wisconsin (not that these next two and the BE games aren't important). That's our only true OOC road game, and while what you do in conference is huge, these games are critical. MU has to go 2-1 at a minimum against Ok. St, Duke/Illinois, and Wisco.

I have to disagree.  The only game we need to win is tonight's game and not suffer any big upsets and we will be fine.  Duke is a top 10 team and Wisky is a road game so we won't be expected to win either one of those games.  A win against Ok. St., no major upsets and a 10-6 conference record will get us in the dance.  Don't forget the top half of the Big East is tough and 8 teams should make the dance.  Some of you are just way too dramatic as we have only played 3 games.

[1990Warrior]

PRN is preaching to the choir here, I've been saying this since our sked came out. I said the biggest game on our sked is @ Wisconsin (not that these next two and the BE games aren't important). That's our only true OOC road game, and while what you do in conference is huge, these games are critical. MU has to go 2-1 at a minimum against Ok. St, Duke/Illinois, and Wisco.

I have to disagree.  The only game we need to win is tonight's game and not suffer any big upsets and we will be fine.  Duke is a top 10 team and Wisky is a road game so we won't be expected to win either one of those games.  A win against Ok. St., no major upsets and a 10-6 conference record will get us in the dance.  Don't forget the top half of the Big East is tough and 8 teams should make the dance.  Some of you are just way too dramatic as we have only played 3 games.

I think we should all remember and be concerned about what happened to Syracuse last year...

[DegenerateDish]

I agree that 10-6 in the BE, no major upsets, a win over Ok. St, and losses to Duke and Wisco are fine if you just want to make the dance.

It depends on what your expectation levels are. If you're fine with just making the dance, that's one thing. But I for one have higher expectations. For the talent, depth, and hype around this year's team, I expect to be playing on the second weekend of the NCAA's. I don't expect a Final Four berth, but I expect them to make the Sweet 16.

Also, MU should very much so get 10 wins out of the BE this year. While it is tough, it's not as tough as you think to get 10 wins.

Seton Hall...twice! (they're terrible)
Cincy
South Florida
DePaul (at home)
ND (one at home)
UConn
Rutgers
St. Johns
Providence (at home)

I'm not saying any of these are gimme's, but if MU is going to be worthy of it's top 15 ranking, those are games you win this year. That's why MU's next two games (and Wisco) are so important. The committee won't be impressed by those 10 BE wins, they'll be impressed by beating Duke and winning at Wisco.

[dwaderoy2004]

come on guys...there are 18 conference games this year.

[muwarrior87]

come on guys...there are 18 conference games this year.

I was going to see how long everyone kept going w/ the 16 conference games.  Should have just changed it in one post to 12-6 or 11-7 and seen if anyone noticed.  But I do think that by January, this team will have matured enough and gotten all their ducks in a row to go through the conference season with only 4 or 5 losses.  A lot of people may call me crazy but historically we haven't done well early in the season in terms of blowing people out and I think that will more games, Acker, Cubillan, and Fitz will start to find their strokes. And SC should be back for the conference season which gives us another shooter.

[mu_hilltopper]

Just remember .. 9 games are at the Bradley Center.  Chalk up 7+ wins right there.   I don't care how poorly we shoot .. the BC and outlasting guys = wins.

[CTWarrior]

But I do think that by January, this team will have matured enough and gotten all their ducks in a row to go through the conference season with only 4 or 5 losses. 

In the words of Bill Lumburgh, I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there.  We return our entire team for all practical purposes and the only newcomer who is going to get serious minutes got to practice with the team all last year.  We should be far ahead of other teams at this point.  I would expect our strength relative to other schools to weaken over the course of this season, not strengthen.  What I worry most about is that teams have had a year to figure out that you just pack it in against us and make us shoot from the outside.

[muwarrior87]

the main reason I said what I did is because this team has not been exceptional at blowing others out early in the season. Just look at the past few years.  We've won by double digits but far from the blowouts that everyone seems to be looking for.  And then when the conference season rolls around, we step our game up and compete.  This team appears to have more resources at their disposal to not have the end of season collapse we've had in years past as well. We have a deeper bench and also have added things to the practice regimen to help the longevity this season. Crean has also said that they are getting through everything they need to in practice faster than they have in previous years which means they haven't gone as long with practices which will also help them down the stretch.

As for Acker being able to practice with the team last season, practice is a lot different than the games.  He still is going to have an adjustment period where he gets comfortable with the game atmosphere.  Burke is gaining confidence and other than his stupid fouls here and there appears to have made a jump from last season.  Ouse when home over the summer months which would affect his transition back into the season.  Crean has made it known that he isn't happy with how Ouse has played and practiced thus far but from what I saw yesterday, he's getting back to form.  This team will be fine and has the ability to make a run.

I still believe what Bilas said at multiple times yesterday. Once our shot selection is at the same level with our intensity, we will be pretty darn unstoppable.  We took pretty good shots and they didn't fall yesterday.  If our decision making continues to improve, we will start to make more of these because the right people will be taking them.  Lazar won't be throwing shots up from 3 feet behind the arc and Cubillan should get more looks if he continues to shoot like he has. If he doesn't, there's something wrong.

[77ncaachamps]

I said they'll finish 10-8.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=4370.25

Not that I'll be happy if they finish with that record...

[Big Papi]

I agree that 10-6 in the BE, no major upsets, a win over Ok. St, and losses to Duke and Wisco are fine if you just want to make the dance.

It depends on what your expectation levels are. If you're fine with just making the dance, that's one thing. But I for one have higher expectations. For the talent, depth, and hype around this year's team, I expect to be playing on the second weekend of the NCAA's. I don't expect a Final Four berth, but I expect them to make the Sweet 16.

Also, MU should very much so get 10 wins out of the BE this year. While it is tough, it's not as tough as you think to get 10 wins.

Seton Hall...twice! (they're terrible)
Cincy
South Florida
DePaul (at home)
ND (one at home)
UConn
Rutgers
St. Johns
Providence (at home)

I'm not saying any of these are gimme's, but if MU is going to be worthy of it's top 15 ranking, those are games you win this year. That's why MU's next two games (and Wisco) are so important. The committee won't be impressed by those 10 BE wins, they'll be impressed by beating Duke and winning at Wisco.

The original post was insinuating that we could very easily miss out on the tourny if we don't have positive results in these next two games and Wisky while still finishing with a decent winning record in the Big East per the Syracuse example.  Expectations aside, we have only played 3 games so its not do or die 5 games into a 30 plus game schedule when a lot of things can happen during the course of the year.  The committee looked at the entire season and not just what we did at the beginning of the year when it came to our resume.  In fact, if anything, our poor record down the stretch and the loss of McNeal at the end of the year had a greater impact on where we were seeded than us beating Duke at the beginning of the year.  

Games against Pitt twice, Louisville, Georgetown and Syracuse and any other Big East team that establishes itself as a top tiered team this year(UConn, ND maybe) will be just as important as Duke and Wisky.  We would probably need to finish .500 combined against them and Duke and Wisky to consider ourselves a tourny team.  We can lose to both Duke and Wisky and still have a very good seed if we have a strong showing in conference play but lets at least get a few more games under our belt before we declare games as do or die.  Otherwise your writing off the season completely if we lose our next 2 games or lose against Duke and Wisky and that just doesn't make any sense whatsoever when we still have a ton of games to play.    

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I agree that 10-6 in the BE, no major upsets, a win over Ok. St, and losses to Duke and Wisco are fine if you just want to make the dance.

It depends on what your expectation levels are. If you're fine with just making the dance, that's one thing. But I for one have higher expectations. For the talent, depth, and hype around this year's team, I expect to be playing on the second weekend of the NCAA's. I don't expect a Final Four berth, but I expect them to make the Sweet 16.

Also, MU should very much so get 10 wins out of the BE this year. While it is tough, it's not as tough as you think to get 10 wins.

Seton Hall...twice! (they're terrible)
Cincy
South Florida
DePaul (at home)
ND (one at home)
UConn
Rutgers
St. Johns
Providence (at home)

I'm not saying any of these are gimme's, but if MU is going to be worthy of it's top 15 ranking, those are games you win this year. That's why MU's next two games (and Wisco) are so important. The committee won't be impressed by those 10 BE wins, they'll be impressed by beating Duke and winning at Wisco.

The original post was insinuating that we could very easily miss out on the tourny if we don't have positive results in these next two games and Wisky while still finishing with a decent winning record in the Big East per the Syracuse example.  Expectations aside, we have only played 3 games so its not do or die 5 games into a 30 plus game schedule when a lot of things can happen during the course of the year.  The committee looked at the entire season and not just what we did at the beginning of the year when it came to our resume.  In fact, if anything, our poor record down the stretch and the loss of McNeal at the end of the year had a greater impact on where we were seeded than us beating Duke at the beginning of the year.  

Games against Pitt twice, Louisville, Georgetown and Syracuse and any other Big East team that establishes itself as a top tiered team this year(UConn, ND maybe) will be just as important as Duke and Wisky.  We would probably need to finish .500 combined against them and Duke and Wisky to consider ourselves a tourny team.  We can lose to both Duke and Wisky and still have a very good seed if we have a strong showing in conference play but lets at least get a few more games under our belt before we declare games as do or die.  Otherwise your writing off the season completely if we lose our next 2 games or lose against Duke and Wisky and that just doesn't make any sense whatsoever when we still have a ton of games to play.    

They're definitely NOT do or die...but you do realize Syracuse had an identical conference record as us last year...and they somewhat manhandled us in the Bradley Center, right?

They were a surprising snub, but I just think winning at least two of our three legitimate non-conference games would be a huge boost.

[Big Papi]

I agree that 10-6 in the BE, no major upsets, a win over Ok. St, and losses to Duke and Wisco are fine if you just want to make the dance.

It depends on what your expectation levels are. If you're fine with just making the dance, that's one thing. But I for one have higher expectations. For the talent, depth, and hype around this year's team, I expect to be playing on the second weekend of the NCAA's. I don't expect a Final Four berth, but I expect them to make the Sweet 16.

Also, MU should very much so get 10 wins out of the BE this year. While it is tough, it's not as tough as you think to get 10 wins.

Seton Hall...twice! (they're terrible)
Cincy
South Florida
DePaul (at home)
ND (one at home)
UConn
Rutgers
St. Johns
Providence (at home)

I'm not saying any of these are gimme's, but if MU is going to be worthy of it's top 15 ranking, those are games you win this year. That's why MU's next two games (and Wisco) are so important. The committee won't be impressed by those 10 BE wins, they'll be impressed by beating Duke and winning at Wisco.

The original post was insinuating that we could very easily miss out on the tourny if we don't have positive results in these next two games and Wisky while still finishing with a decent winning record in the Big East per the Syracuse example.  Expectations aside, we have only played 3 games so its not do or die 5 games into a 30 plus game schedule when a lot of things can happen during the course of the year.  The committee looked at the entire season and not just what we did at the beginning of the year when it came to our resume.  In fact, if anything, our poor record down the stretch and the loss of McNeal at the end of the year had a greater impact on where we were seeded than us beating Duke at the beginning of the year.  

Games against Pitt twice, Louisville, Georgetown and Syracuse and any other Big East team that establishes itself as a top tiered team this year(UConn, ND maybe) will be just as important as Duke and Wisky.  We would probably need to finish .500 combined against them and Duke and Wisky to consider ourselves a tourny team.  We can lose to both Duke and Wisky and still have a very good seed if we have a strong showing in conference play but lets at least get a few more games under our belt before we declare games as do or die.  Otherwise your writing off the season completely if we lose our next 2 games or lose against Duke and Wisky and that just doesn't make any sense whatsoever when we still have a ton of games to play.    

They're definitely NOT do or die...but you do realize Syracuse had an identical conference record as us last year...and they somewhat manhandled us in the Bradley Center, right?

They were a surprising snub, but I just think winning at least two of our three legitimate non-conference games would be a huge boost.

Ahh yes the same conference record and they bet us although I wouldn't call a tie game with 4 minutes left manhandled but okay lets call it that.....but do you realize the Big East plays an unbalanced schedule?  I would think you would so if you dive into it just a bit more you would see that our worst loss in conference was against a solid Providence while Syracuse had losses against UConn and St. John.  In addition, we played 8 games against the top 6, they played 6.  The bottom line is we do have to beat good teams but 3 games into the season and we are talking about do or die games, come on.  At least you are coming to your senses a bit and yes it would be good if we beat either Duke or Wisky.   

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

"Do or die" was a phrase I believe you first brought up. I simply said they are big games because of our lousy non-conference schedule. And if it comes down to a toss up between us and somebody in the Big East with an identical conference record, a couple wins over OSU/Duke/at Wisconsin would look pretty good.

[DegenerateDish]

You also realize the committee strongly looks at the part of the schedule you have control over...the non-conference scheduled. Yes your power ratings will strongly increase in the BE schedule, but the mantra over the last few seasons has been "who did you play, and where did you play them". I won't say their "do or die" (they're not, and we can all agree on that), but to minimize their importance is foolish. These are huge games, especially when you have Florida Gulf Coast coming into the BC for a non-conference game late in the season.

[rocky_warrior]

if we beat either Duke or Wisky.   

Not to hijack the thread too much, but everyone keeps assuming it'll be Duke in the final.  I actually think there's a good chance that IL upsets Duke today.  They looked pretty good in their game last night too.

[chefrad]

Re Duke:

I don't think Coach Amex has really sorted out who to deal with the one & done blue chippers yet at Duke, This  isn't Duke anymore, though they are invariably pretty good.

[TallTitan34]

The last two years we have lost a game to a cupcake OOC opponent at home.  The last two years we have also made the NCAA tournament.

While I agree losing to these teams will look bad, it's not the end of the world.  A loss to OK State tonight would be a loss to a better opponent than the last two years.  Plus it would be on a neutral court rather than a home loss.

[Big Papi]

"Do or die" was a phrase I believe you first brought up. I simply said they are big games because of our lousy non-conference schedule. And if it comes down to a toss up between us and somebody in the Big East with an identical conference record, a couple wins over OSU/Duke/at Wisconsin would look pretty good.

Oh so we are going to quibble over phrases now.  I am sorry I thought you said "these next two games are HUGE...." and from MUDish "...MU HAS TO GO 2-1 at a minimum against Ok. St, Duke/Illinois, and Wisco."  But okay if you so yes I brought it up the actual phrase first.

Of course wins against Duke or Wisky are huge and important but than they all are really, aren't they?  Every game is huge.  A win against Duke would be huge.  A win against Wisconsin would be huge.  A win against Louisville or Georgetown or Pitt or Notre Dame or Syracuse would be huge.  A loss to Seton Hall or Savannah State would be huge.  Its a compilation of the entire resume that is important not one or two specific games. 

Oh and I don't really buy your lousy non-conference schedule when we have the potential to play a top 10 team, a top 25 team, another high major team and a very decent mid-major team in addition to playing 2 less bunnies this year compared to past years.  You want to complain about the quality of home games this year fine I have no arguments with that.

[HarveysWallbangers]

I guarantee our schedule isn't going to do us any favors. Even Sports Illustrated gave us a "D."   

[rocky_warrior]

I guarantee our schedule isn't going to do us any favors. Even Sports Illustrated gave us a "D."   

By the end of the year we'll have a top 30 SOS.  Probably higher.  If that's a "D", then most of us probably flunked out of MU...