Problem wasn't height...

[brandx]

Bingo. There's a common denominator. And it appears we won't be good again until next season. And yes, Wojo has options. It isn't going to get worse playing any of Cohen, JJJ, or Dawson those 30 minutes. But, it would get better I can guarantee. Wojo describing Derrick as a "terrific" player is ridiculous and shows the extent of his pet status. Fine me one other guard getting 30 plus per game with so little production that gets described as "terrific."  Please.

We won't be competitive this year because we were competitive against two highly ranked teams? Fits in with the rest of your analysis.

And to almost everyone here - it would get worse.

Wojo's highwater scoring mark was 6.9 ppg. But then Coach K is obviously is no equal with Ners when it comes to coaching knowledge.

[brewcity77]

Wojo's highwater scoring mark was 6.9 ppg. But then Coach K is obviously is no equal with Ners when it comes to coaching knowledge.

That's why he's the coach's pet, because Wojo sees himself in Derrick.

[brandx]

That's why he's the coach's pet, because Wojo sees himself in Derrick.

[wadesworld]

Ners, you continue to say, "It couldn't get any worse than playing Cohen, JJJ, and Deonte in Derrick's minutes."  So just answer this simple question with a simple yes or no.  You really think both Buzz and Wojo are so clueless that despite seeing those guys practice every single day they can't figure that out?  I mean, it's clearly that easy, right?  Just a simple yes or no answer to that will suffice.  Are Buzz and Wojo both completely clueless?

[BallBoy]

Bingo. There's a common denominator. And it appears we won't be good again until next season. And yes, Wojo has options. It isn't going to get worse playing any of Cohen, JJJ, or Dawson those 30 minutes. But, it would get better I can guarantee. Wojo describing Derrick as a "terrific" player is ridiculous and shows the extent of his pet status. Fine me one other guard getting 30 plus per game with so little production that gets described as "terrific."  Please.

You really need to stop digging. The fact that you have created three theories that are so off the wall just took your credibility negative.  Wojo is not playing Derrick because he is his pet. He is playing him because he is the best option. Every player you mentioned hasn't shown anything that says the deserve more time.  The inaccurate facts don't help you either.

[NersEllenson]

Ners, you continue to say, "It couldn't get any worse than playing Cohen, JJJ, and Deonte in Derrick's minutes."  So just answer this simple question with a simple yes or no.  You really think both Buzz and Wojo are so clueless that despite seeing those guys practice every single day they can't figure that out?  I mean, it's clearly that easy, right?  Just a simple yes or no answer to that will suffice.  Are Buzz and Wojo both completely clueless?

When Steve Wojo calls Derrick a terrific player - he loses all credibility. As you point out he's Wojo 2.0, and therefore a lot of reasons why Wojo would have a personal liking and bias toward a player who reminds him of himself. It isn't that far fetched. Of course Wojo shot much better from 3 and FT Line, and was a true, elite defender - Derrick?  Any wagers he doesn't win Big East Defensive Player of Year?  

It's even more maddening this year than last because at least you could make the case or try with some validity to say las year that Buzz didn't have a better option at PG (with regard to ball security), but this season??  Come on man. Carlino and Duane are plenty capable.  Dawson would be a huge upgrade to Derrick. Why?  Because ask Travis Diener:  He's a great athlete that can knock down shots.

We all saw Dawson make some 3s, midrange and FTs at a much better clip than Derrick last season. This year with the zone D, and Duane/Carlino on team - Dawson at minimum deserves a chance at 10-20 minutes to show what he can do in a game.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

When Steve Wojo calls Derrick a terrific player - he loses all credibility.

Wow, 8 games in and Wojo has already lost all credibility. Almost makes you miss Buzz eh Ners?

[NersEllenson]

Wow, 8 games in and Wojo has already lost all credibility. Almost makes you miss Buzz eh Ners?

Sorry - I should have clarified that with loses all credibility with regard to the reality of Derrick as a player. It's a lie. He isn't terrific. And I think even those here who support Derrick would agree he isn't terrific. It's simply more of the same we saw with Buzz last year - trying to publicly prop up a guy (who they love as a person/intangibles) who's performance on the floor suggests the exact opposite. Buzz used elite, game changer etc. it's totally exaggerated/embellished hyperbole. And that's where I call BS.

[MU82]

Height wasn't the only reason Wisconsin won, but it was a main reason, if not the main reason.

We couldn't get ANYTHING going to the basket. Duane made several aggressive drives, the kind he scored on in Orlando, and he never had a chance today against Kaminsky, Hayes, Dekker and Duggan. Anybody who watched the game saw that. Juan has had nice success going into the lane and scoring; never had a chance today. Derrick occasionally can hit that running whatever he calls it going to his right; never had a chance today. Except for 1 or 2 times, Carlino failed miserably when he tried to take the ball to the rim. Burton had no chance inside in his short stints.

Could the guards have made up for Bucky's height with an extraordinary shooting game, the kind NJIT apparently had against Michigan? Sure, but they didn't, and that might have been partly because Gasser (6-4), Koenig (6-4) and Jackson (6-3) also had height advantages on the perimeter.

I certainly am not going to join Ners' harrangue against Derrick and others because, frankly, I came out of this game pretty encouraged. Bucky is one of the 5 best teams in the country; we won't see any others like them.

And you know what? We did no worse against Wisconsin than Wisconsin did against Duke.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

3.  Steve Taylor just isn't the player he was as a freshman right now.  I don't know if it's mental or what but he is a relative non-factor right now.

I'm starting to think there really was some degree of truth that his knee didn't come back last year and contributed to Buzz not playing him.  We know Buzz wanted defense-first players, and Steve didn't seem to have it figured out.  Maybe some of that was simply lack of mobility because of the knee.

These year he doesn't remotely seem to have the athleticism he had as a freshman.  No explosiveness, no jumping ability.

[Texas Western]

Height wasn't the only reason Wisconsin won, but it was a main reason, if not the main reason.

We couldn't get ANYTHING going to the basket. Duane made several aggressive drives, the kind he scored on in Orlando, and he never had a chance today against Kaminsky, Hayes, Dekker and Duggan. Anybody who watched the game saw that. Juan has had nice success going into the lane and scoring; never had a chance today. Derrick occasionally can hit that running whatever he calls it going to his right; never had a chance today. Except for 1 or 2 times, Carlino failed miserably when he tried to take the ball to the rim. Burton had no chance inside in his short stints.

Could the guards have made up for Bucky's height with an extraordinary shooting game, the kind NJIT apparently had against Michigan? Sure, but they didn't, and that might have been partly because Gasser (6-4), Koenig (6-4) and Jackson (6-3) also had height advantages on the perimeter.

I certainly am not going to join Ners' harrangue against Derrick and others because, frankly, I came out of this game pretty encouraged. Bucky is one of the 5 best teams in the country; we won't see any others like them.

And you know what? We did no worse against Wisconsin than Wisconsin did against Duke.

I think you are making some good points above.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Buzz was intentionally throwing games and Wojo is playing Derrick because he is teacher's pet.

I'm stupider for reading this crap. 

Back to ignore.

[NersEllenson]

Buzz was intentionally throwing games and Wojo is playing Derrick because he is teacher's pet.

I'm stupider for reading this crap. 

Back to ignore.

Ouch. That hurts. My Saturday night is ruined!  I'm going to spend the rest of it trying to rationalize a justification for why Wojo played Derrick more minutes than anyone to get that 1 point, as well as Buzz doing the same last season. Further I'm going to see if I can somehow logically comprehend why on this years team with 2 additional PG options in Duane and Carlino, and given our transition to zone defense - why he's played a guy 4 minutes all year that shoots 4 times better from the 3, and based on this seasons percentage 3 times better from the FT line. Agh!  Perhaps it is to yield that 1 steal per game and 3 Rebounds per game in 30 minutes of action.

[Class71]

Someone has lost credibility but it isn't Wojo. How many ways can it be said, the Derrick/ Dawson saga and it's variants are over. Beat that dead horse but little do you realize it simply is not going to move. Get on with your life my friend. Often repeats of the same old story are meaningless at this time, the point has been made. It takes wisdom to know when to let go.

[Eldon]

Ouch. That hurts. My Saturday night is ruined!  I'm going to spend the rest of it trying to rationalize a justification for why Wojo played Derrick more minutes than anyone to get that 1 point, as well as Buzz doing the same last season. Further I'm going to see if I can somehow logically comprehend why on this years team with 2 additional PG options in Duane and Carlino, and given our transition to zone defense - why he's played a guy 4 minutes all year that shoots 4 times better from the 3, and based on this seasons percentage 3 times better from the FT line. Agh!  Perhaps it is to yield that 1 steal per game and 3 Rebounds per game in 30 minutes of action.

I feel your frustration. If I had never seen Awesome Dawson play, I would agree with the Derrick-crowd, ie, Dawson must suck really bad and DeWil is our best option. If I had never seen Dawson play, I would think that he is just another Jamal Ferguson--a low-major player who we made a mistake recruiting.

But I have seen Dawson play. And I like what I saw. And so did Davante, calling him the best PG that we had (before DuWil got injured, mind you).

My hypothesis is that Buzz didnt play Dawson more because Derrick was the better PG at the time and gave us the best chance of winning at the time, despite Dawson having an undisputably higher ceiling. I advocated Dawson playing more because I wanted him to reach that ceiling asap. Though it was a risk that Dawsons ability would surpass Derrick's before the end of the season. I said Brent should take that risk, but Brent knew hed be leaving MU so I guess he decided that taking the risk wasnt worth it. Brent needed to maximize his market value especially at the end of the season.

My general agreement and empathy with Ners notwithstanding, I don't think Wojo is playing Derrick because of some irrational fondness for him or some feeling of nostalgia that Derrick gives to Wojo. Rather, I think he plays Derrick because Derrick is "efficient" that is, conservative. I would even say overly conservative. Derrick is the relatively safe choice, at least so it seems. Dawson, OTOH, is perhaps seen as a riskier bet. There isnt much tape on him, he may make silly mistakes in practice, and he has less experience than DeWil.

So, as with Brent, I think Wojo is not playing Dawson because Wojo, perhaps like most other college coaches, is risk-averse. Perhaps even more so since this is his first year on the job. Hed rather go 9-9 in conference play with certainty/DeWil than risk going either 2-16 or 14-4 in conference play with Dawson. (Yes, I believe that DeWil has that much of an effect on the offense/flow of the game).

Wojo somewhat took a risk going with zone defense and it paid off. This gives me hope that Wojo is wiling to take risks. Although, based on what we've seen last year, I'd hardly consider giving all (yes, all) of DeWils minutes to Dawson risky.

I sincerely hope that if/when it becomes abundantly clear that we are out of the tourney talk, that Wojo pivots 180 and switches 100% to Dawson (at DeWils expense), as it will pay dividends for next year.

[GGGG]

So, as with Brent, I think Wojo is not playing Dawson because Wojo, perhaps like most other college coaches, is risk-averse. Perhaps even more so since this is his first year on the job. Hed rather go 9-9 in conference play with certainty/DeWil than risk going either 2-16 or 14-4 in conference play with Dawson. (Yes, I believe that DeWil has that much of an effect on the offense/flow of the game).

A coach is simply going to play the players that he thinks is going to win the game in front of them.

And regardless, the question might not actually be why Dawson isn't playing over Derrick, but why is he isn't playing over JJJ - who has arguably been  worse this year.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I feel your frustration. If I had never seen Awesome Dawson play, I would agree with the Derrick-crowd, ie, Dawson must suck really bad and DeWil is our best option. If I had never seen Dawson play, I would think that he is just another Jamal Ferguson--a low-major player who we made a mistake recruiting.

But I have seen Dawson play. And I like what I saw. And so did Davante, calling him the best PG that we had (before DuWil got injured, mind you).

My hypothesis is that Buzz didnt play Dawson more because Derrick was the better PG at the time and gave us the best chance of winning at the time, despite Dawson having an undisputably higher ceiling. I advocated Dawson playing more because I wanted him to reach that ceiling asap. Though it was a risk that Dawsons ability would surpass Derrick's before the end of the season. I said Brent should take that risk, but Brent knew hed be leaving MU so I guess he decided that taking the risk wasnt worth it. Brent needed to maximize his market value especially at the end of the season.

My general agreement and empathy with Ners notwithstanding, I don't think Wojo is playing Derrick because of some irrational fondness for him or some feeling of nostalgia that Derrick gives to Wojo. Rather, I think he plays Derrick because Derrick is "efficient" that is, conservative. I would even say overly conservative. Derrick is the relatively safe choice, at least so it seems. Dawson, OTOH, is perhaps seen as a riskier bet. There isnt much tape on him, he may make silly mistakes in practice, and he has less experience than DeWil.

So, as with Brent, I think Wojo is not playing Dawson because Wojo, perhaps like most other college coaches, is risk-averse. Perhaps even more so since this is his first year on the job. Hed rather go 9-9 in conference play with certainty/DeWil than risk going either 2-16 or 14-4 in conference play with Dawson. (Yes, I believe that DeWil has that much of an effect on the offense/flow of the game).

Wojo somewhat took a risk going with zone defense and it paid off. This gives me hope that Wojo is wiling to take risks. Although, based on what we've seen last year, I'd hardly consider giving all (yes, all) of DeWils minutes to Dawson risky.

I sincerely hope that if/when it becomes abundantly clear that we are out of the tourney talk, that Wojo pivots 180 and switches 100% to Dawson (at DeWils expense), as it will pay dividends for next year.

You are out of your mind.

[NersEllenson]

You are out of your mind.

No more out of his mind than those of you who think Derrick should be getting more than 10-15 minutes.  Here's the deal:

Derrick: Tied for 3rd most minutes (with Steve) on team after Juan and Carlino, yet Pomeroy has him in the "Limited Roles" classification of players.

Derrick's O-Rating is the 2nd worst on the team - 93.7.  JJJ at 88.5.  We again are talking about a 4th year senior, that played max minutes last season, and has shown just minor improvement over last season.

So, Coach Wojo:  You play a guy the 3rd most minutes on the team, yet he ranks 8th out 9 guys in O-Rating and Pomeroy calls him a Limited Role player?

I have NO problem with Derrick playing 10-15.  But there is NO reason he should be playing 30-35.  Give those minutes to Cohen.  See what Dawson can do on the floor.  JJJ is struggling - but the future of your program are those guys and the contribution toward winning you are getting from your vet in no way merits max minutes.  (Once again.)

[jesmu84]

No more out of his mind than those of you who think Derrick should be getting more than 10-15 minutes

Please find me one person who WANTS derrick to be playing more than 10-15. Nearly everyone has said that's what they all prefer and hope that he would be playing.

[forgetful]

The reason both Buzz and Wojo are playing Derrick is clear.  He is the best option for several reasons.  The predominant one being:

For this years squad and last, we have a bunch of players who:

Are not leaders.
Are careless with the ball on offense. (aka Decision making)
Do not care about defense.

Derrick is the best leader, decision maker and consistent defender that we have.  Since those are the 3 team weaknesses, he is starting to lead by example. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I definitely only want Derrick to play for 10 minutes. But I don't want his minutes given away. I want one of the younger guys be it Deonte, Dawson, or JjJ to rise up and take the minutes from him. Earn the minutes with practice time and performance on the court. Until you can do that, you don't deserve to be playing more.

[brewcity77]

I have NO problem with Derrick playing 10-15.  But there is NO reason he should be playing 30-35.  Give those minutes to Cohen.  See what Dawson can do on the floor.  JJJ is struggling - but the future of your program are those guys and the contribution toward winning you are getting from your vet in no way merits max minutes.  (Once again.)

Dawson is clearly not an option. It doesn't matter why. None of us know, but if he was an option he'd be playing.

I've started before, we are playing a 2 PG offense. That means 80 minutes for point guards. Even if Carlino and Duane play 30 minutes each, that means 20 minutes for Derrick. There is no one else. Cohen is not a point guard. Burton and Jajuan are not point guards. And there will be times Carlino and Duane play the 3, so that's more minutes for Derrick. No matter how much you don't like the guy, there is no one else. We don't have other bodies.

And you do NOT play for the future in December. For the love of god any coach that is giving up on the season before a single conference game is played should be fired on the spot, and playing for the future is exactly that. You play to win this year, period, and if Wojo believes Derrick gives him the best chance now he sure as hell better play him. Go 8-4 in the non-con, have a winning conference record, you have a shot at postseason play.

If all you care about is the future, why are you watching this year? Mail it in for six months and Derrick will be gone, all those future guys will be a little closer to PT, and you can make good on your poll promise (though I would have voted no myself). Otherwise, maybe just TRY to enjoy the process, knowing there will be bumps (and Derrick) along the way.

[mu-rara]

Dawson is clearly not an option. It doesn't matter why. None of us know, but if he was an option he'd be playing.

And you do NOT play for the future in December. For the love of god any coach that is giving up on the season before a single conference game is played should be fired on the spot, and playing for the future is exactly that. You play to win this year, period, and if Wojo believes Derrick gives him the best chance now he sure as hell better play him. Go 8-4 in the non-con, have a winning conference record, you have a shot at postseason play.

If all you care about is the future, why are you watching this year? Mail it in for six months and Derrick will be gone, all those future guys will be a little closer to PT, and you can make good on your poll promise (though I would have voted no myself). Otherwise, maybe just TRY to enjoy the process, knowing there will be bumps (and Derrick) along the way.

Derrick and Matt are mentoring the younger guys, preparing them for the future.  I hope a couple of them prove they have it.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Dawson is clearly not an option. It doesn't matter why. None of us know, but if he was an option he'd be playing.

I wouldn't say he's not an option. Since UT-Martin we have only played in close games. After ASU we have a stretch of three cupcakes. I bet Dawson will at least get some garbage minutes there.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I've never been one to rip on Derrick but he is so bad. I would much rather him have taken those wide open 3's than the circus shots he attempted last game. I don't see what he brings anymore, honestly. Especially now with the zone when you need length.

Now that Luke is eligible, I think you can start giving Derrick minutes to Duane and Carlino while playing Sandy and deonte more at the wing to give them a bigger lineup.