This Season's Team Sucks Ass

[jaygall31]

I guess what scares me the most about yesterday, and the future for our Boys in General, is that has Duke every really played any defense either?

[Silkk the Shaka]

Before this game, did you know anything about Nebraska-Omaha? Or would you be making this post whether the loss was to Nebraska-Omaha, Georgia State, or UC-Santa Barbara simply because it isn't a familiar name?

Dude. Come on. They're a 200+ squad. They just lost @Seattle by 24 on Wednesday. Seattle is also a 200+ squad. Don't try to spin it into something it's not.

We lost to a bad team at home. It's not a good sign. Is there time to turn it around? Sure. But this loss is still alarming. To try to say otherwise is to willfully ignore the truth.

[brewcity77]

Dude. Come on. They're a 200+ squad. They just lost @Seattle by 24 on Wednesday. Seattle is also a 200+ squad. Don't try to spin it into something it's not.

We lost to a bad team at home. It's not a good sign. Is there time to turn it around? Sure. But this loss is still alarming. To try to say otherwise is to willfully ignore the truth.

If there's any time of year that the metrics may not be accurate, it's November. I'm not saying it's good. I'm not happy with yesterday's result. We should not be losing games to buy opponents. But just because Pomeroy has them as a 200+ team in November doesn't mean they'll be there in March.

And sorry, but 3 games in, I'm not going to get alarmed. This is a huge rebuilding project. Wojo doesn't just have to rebuild the short roster, he has to rebuild the entire culture. Buzz and him operate on completely different levels. I'm not saying one is right and one is wrong, or that either is better than the other, but there are few similarities between the way Buzz ran his program and the way Wojo wants to run his. It will take time. I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Besides...was anyone booking their tickets for March before this game?

[GGGG]

brew, this stuff sounds a lot like the people who were saying Arizona State was a top 20 team when we lost to them last year.  This was simply a bad loss.  Period.  Marquette should not be losing to teams like this.

That being said, a bad loss can simply be an aberration.  (See UWGB two years ago.)  Or it could be sign of things to come.  Only time will tell.

[Silkk the Shaka]

If there's any time of year that the metrics may not be accurate, it's November. I'm not saying it's good. I'm not happy with yesterday's result. We should not be losing games to buy opponents. But just because Pomeroy has them as a 200+ team in November doesn't mean they'll be there in March.

And sorry, but 3 games in, I'm not going to get alarmed. This is a huge rebuilding project. Wojo doesn't just have to rebuild the short roster, he has to rebuild the entire culture. Buzz and him operate on completely different levels. I'm not saying one is right and one is wrong, or that either is better than the other, but there are few similarities between the way Buzz ran his program and the way Wojo wants to run his. It will take time. I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Besides...was anyone booking their tickets for March before this game?

I'm very bullish on Wojo and this program's future . However, losing to a team as bad as UN-O at home is alarming in terms of this year's prospects, and I have recalibrated my expectations for the 2014-2015 season accordingly.

[NotAnAlum]

Yep. Very little talent on this years team. Folks need to take off the goggles. Buzz really left the table empty. Not Wojo's fault. He was dealt a very weak hand.

Sorry but this is simply not true.  Buzz left 5 top 100 recruits on the team, 6 if you count Fisher.  Sandy staying makes 7.  Then Wojo adds Carlino another top 100.  You guys do know that aside from Ellenson the incoming recruiting class is no more highly rated than the guys on the floor.  Taylor was the number 1 player in Ill his senior year for crying out loud.  They may not have developed as needed or it may not be the right mix but it is not simply a matter of Buzz leaving the table empty.  Crean inherited MUCH less talent.  I'm much more prepared to call this an inexperienced head coach with an inexperienced staff, all used to having loads of talent, trying to learn how to get a team with some holes to jell.

[brewcity77]

I'm very bullish on Wojo and this program's future . However, losing to a team as bad as UN-O at home is alarming in terms of this year's prospects, and I have recalibrated my expectations for the 2014-2015 season accordingly.

I agree with this completely. Most likely we won't be in the NCAAs this year. That was probably the case before UNO, and is more likely after. As Sultan noted with UWGB it isn't guaranteed, but there's nothing wrong with lowering expectations. I just think anyone that feels this one game signals we should be rethinking the hire is completely out of their minds.

We lost a game because we weren't good enough. It will clearly take time to rebuild what Wojo inherited. At the end of the day, this just means being patient.

[tower912]

Sorry but this is simply not true.  Buzz left 5 top 100 recruits on the team, 6 if you count Fisher.  Sandy staying makes 7.  Then Wojo adds Carlino another top 100.  You guys do know that aside from Ellenson the incoming recruiting class is no more highly rated than the guys on the floor.  Taylor was the number 1 player in Ill his senior year for crying out loud.  They may not have developed as needed or it may not be the right mix but it is not simply a matter of Buzz leaving the table empty.  Crean inherited MUCH less talent.  I'm much more prepared to call this an inexperienced head coach with an inexperienced staff, all used to having loads of talent, trying to learn how to get a team with some holes to jell.

How many of them didn't see the floor last year because Buzz said they didn't play defense to his standards?   How much of that has been borne out in the last two games?   How many have ever been a go to scorer at the college level?   Not enough height, not enough experience scoring, not enough depth.   The cupboard isn't bare, there is plenty of talent there.    But it is going to take time for everybody to get on the same page. 

[MUSF]

I'm not that worried about the loss, National Champions have lost games like these.  I am concerned about the defense, and specifically the defensive effort at times.  That is embarrassing.  Hopefully, Wojo has a plan and we start to see things turnaround but the defense is a complete disaster at this point.

[GGGG]

How many of them didn't see the floor last year because Buzz said they didn't play defense to his standards?   How much of that has been borne out in the last two games?   How many have ever been a go to scorer at the college level?   Not enough height, not enough experience scoring, not enough depth.   The cupboard isn't bare, there is plenty of talent there.    But it is going to take time for everybody to get on the same page.  

It's raw, inexperienced talent.  When we were making season predictions, I mentioned that our most talented players lacked experience and vice versa.  That means you are going to have some really bad games.

[brewcity77]

Sorry but this is simply not true.  Buzz left 5 top 100 recruits on the team, 6 if you count Fisher.  Sandy staying makes 7.  Then Wojo adds Carlino another top 100.  You guys do know that aside from Ellenson the incoming recruiting class is no more highly rated than the guys on the floor.  Taylor was the number 1 player in Ill his senior year for crying out loud.  They may not have developed as needed or it may not be the right mix but it is not simply a matter of Buzz leaving the table empty.  Crean inherited MUCH less talent.  I'm much more prepared to call this an inexperienced head coach with an inexperienced staff, all used to having loads of talent, trying to learn how to get a team with some holes to jell.

But what did Wojo really inherit? Just because a guy is top-100 is no guarantee that he'll be even a D1 player. Look at Buzz's history with top-100 players:

• Junior Cadougan: High-major role-player. Average starter on a good team.
  
• Erik Williams: Not a D1 player.
  
• Jeronne Maymon: High-major star. Excellent starter on a good team.
  
• Vander Blue: High-major starter. Good starter on a good team, though only 1 really good season.
  
• Jamil Wilson: High-major role-player. Average starter on a good team.
  
• Jamail Jones: Low-major player.
  
• Juan Anderson: High-major role-player. Average backup on a good team.
  
• Steve Taylor: High-major role-player. Average backup on a good team.

.
So out of 8 top-100 players that Buzz recruited from high school, Buzz had 1 high-major star, 3 guys that developed into starting caliber players, and 4 guys that either weren't fit for D1 or belonged on a bench at the high-major level.

There are 7 top-100 players here. Of those, how many do you really think are going to develop into stars? Not that you want to develop like that, but actually will? Just because these guys had stars next to their names on a recruiting list is no guarantee of success, especially when only one of those remaining top-100s (Jajuan) was ranked higher than Buzz's two most successful top-100 players in Junior and Vander?

[79Warrior]

But what did Wojo really inherit? Just because a guy is top-100 is no guarantee that he'll be even a D1 player. Look at Buzz's history with top-100 players:

• Junior Cadougan: High-major role-player. Average starter on a good team.
  
• Erik Williams: Not a D1 player.
  
• Jeronne Maymon: High-major star. Excellent starter on a good team.
  
• Vander Blue: High-major starter. Good starter on a good team, though only 1 really good season.
  
• Jamil Wilson: High-major role-player. Average starter on a good team.
  
• Jamail Jones: Low-major player.
  
• Juan Anderson: High-major role-player. Average backup on a good team.
  
• Steve Taylor: High-major role-player. Average backup on a good team.

.
So out of 8 top-100 players that Buzz recruited from high school, Buzz had 1 high-major star, 3 guys that developed into starting caliber players, and 4 guys that either weren't fit for D1 or belonged on a bench at the high-major level.

There are 7 top-100 players here. Of those, how many do you really think are going to develop into stars? Not that you want to develop like that, but actually will? Just because these guys had stars next to their names on a recruiting list is no guarantee of success, especially when only one of those remaining top-100s (Jajuan) was ranked higher than Buzz's two most successful top-100 players in Junior and Vander?

Excellent points and that is what I have been saying. Throw out the frigging "player rankings". They are completely meaningless now. This is D-1 College Basketball. People need to stop talking about all the "talent" on the team. Taylor and JJJ had a blistering two points yesterday against what many argue is an inferior team. I hate to pick on them but both fellas were highly regarded coming out of HS. You mean to tell me that against a "weak opponent" these two could not do anything? I really think several of the current players are not anywhere near as good as their "talent" may have led us to believe..

[tower912]

It's raw, inexperienced talent.  When we were making season predictions, I mentioned that our most talented players lacked experience and vice versa.  That means you are going to have some really bad games.

We agree.   And that is why I was one who was predicting a down year.   

[NotAnAlum]

People need to stop talking about all the "talent" on the team.

Here we go again.  Crean didn't recruit enough talent to MU.  Buzz didn't recruit enough talent but NOW Wojo is going to see past the rankings, get the TRUE talent that is really out there.  Wojo was very fortunate to have 2 Top 10 big Men in Wisconsin and he was able to get one of them.  But for most years he will be very fortunate if he can sign a class of Duane Wilson, Burton and JJJ.  His success will be based on improving their weaknesses and coming up with a scheme that maximizes their strengths.  Its always tough to go through a coaching transition and we are only 3 games into this season BUT if Wojo is going to be successful here he is going to be required to take a team with little more talent than is currently on the roster and make them competitive.  Blaming everything on Buzz gets a little tiring.  I'm sure Wojo would tell you his current Team has more than enough natural talent to beat Omaha easily and its his job to get that out of them.

[Nevada233]

No excuse for losing to Nebraska Omaha at home.

Unless Luck Fischer is the 2nd coming of Bill Walton.... This team is gonna be hard pressed to win 10 games this year.....

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

I didn't see the game (busy watching my daughter's D3 team win a big away game) but isn't there ANYTHING positive to take away from this game!?! I mean, looking at the box score Juan had a nice line. I doubt very few of us thought we'd see anything like that from him. Does that bode well for the future? Derrick's line looked good and Duane appeared to get a lot of minutes and responded well. So for those of you who saw the game... ANYTHING?  (Don't mean to derail this thread.)

[jakeec]

People are giving way too much credit to Nebraska-Omaha. This team lost by 25 to Seattle and didn't have their starting center. Funny how it's Buzz's fault now.

Marquette should be fine when Ellenson comes.

[79Warrior]

Here we go again.  Crean didn't recruit enough talent to MU.  Buzz didn't recruit enough talent but NOW Wojo is going to see past the rankings, get the TRUE talent that is really out there.  Wojo was very fortunate to have 2 Top 10 big Men in Wisconsin and he was able to get one of them.  But for most years he will be very fortunate if he can sign a class of Duane Wilson, Burton and JJJ.  His success will be based on improving their weaknesses and coming up with a scheme that maximizes their strengths.  Its always tough to go through a coaching transition and we are only 3 games into this season BUT if Wojo is going to be successful here he is going to be required to take a team with little more talent than is currently on the roster and make them competitive.  Blaming everything on Buzz gets a little tiring.  I'm sure Wojo would tell you his current Team has more than enough natural talent to beat Omaha easily and its his job to get that out of them.

I am not blaming Buzz at all. All I am saying is PERHAPS these youngsters are not going to develop into the players we hope they would be.

[Ellisium]

People are giving way too much credit to Nebraska-Omaha. This team lost by 25 to Seattle and didn't have their starting center. Funny how it's Buzz's fault now.

Marquette should be fine when Ellenson comes.

I hope so, but remember that Ellenson isn't a true center.  He's a face to the basket player that is renowned for shooting rather than playing inside. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

People are giving way too much credit to Nebraska-Omaha. This team lost by 25 to Seattle and didn't have their starting center. Funny how it's Buzz's fault now.

Marquette should be fine when Ellenson comes.

You guys still recruiting Stone?   I read over the years how Bo doesn't go after marginal students....nor will UW fans accept it.   

[Ellisium]

You guys still recruiting Stone?   I read over the years how Bo doesn't go after marginal students....nor will UW fans accept it.   

I just read an article in the Baltimore Sun that Connecticut is the favorite with an 80% consensus among scouts.  Stone's father said he'd make his decision in Spring. 

[brewcity77]

I just read an article in the Baltimore Sun that Connecticut is the favorite with an 80% consensus among scouts.  Stone's father said he'd make his decision in Spring. 

If Belling is to be believed, the reason he's waiting until Spring is because of Wojo. Love to hear the reaction out of Madison if Ellenson and Stone are in blue and gold next November.