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Next up: A long offseason

Marquette
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Marquette
Scrimmage
Date/Time: Oct 4, 2025
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Schedule for 2024-25
New Mexico
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Texas Western

Quote from: Johnny B on November 08, 2014, 08:56:50 PM
That spin move finish Duane made in the 2cd is somthing neither Derrick,John, or matt could even think of doing.
Duane has a much different level of athletic ability than the other guards.  We have significantly more upside with him in the lineup.

tower912

Duane made a huge leap just from the first half to the second.   Clearly can get to the rim at will against D3 competition.   But this is what I was expecting to see from him last year.    He got the third most minutes at point, though, behind Derrick and Carlino.   The only way I see that changing is if the season goes poorly and Wojo starts to build for next year. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Texas Western

Quote from: tower912 on November 08, 2014, 10:10:28 PM
Duane made a huge leap just from the first half to the second.   Clearly can get to the rim at will against D3 competition.   But this is what I was expecting to see from him last year.    He got the third most minutes at point, though, behind Derrick and Carlino.   The only way I see that changing is if the season goes poorly and Wojo starts to build for next year. 
Duane was understandably nervous playing in his first college game. He got that behind him and the future is very bright.

bilsu

Assuming Wojo is going to press all the time, Derrick is going to get 15+ minutes. You need fresh guards to press all the time.

MU82

Quote from: The Adventures of HE-Man and the Kangaroo Kid on November 08, 2014, 07:42:36 PM
I hope Derrick gets 15 minutes or less because that would mean that Duane, Dawson, and/or Matt are playing better than he is

This.

And it has nothing to do with the exhibition game, which I didn't see a minute of.

I didn't need to. I saw too many minutes of Derrick last season.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

TheBurrEffect

#30
Quote from: LittleDillard on November 08, 2014, 07:18:48 PM
Why would you call Burton a guard?  Height?  Was Charles Barkley a guard?

If were going with height comparisons for positions instead of attributes like dribbling ability, speed, power ect. Then at 6-4 he is as close to a guard as he is to a forward.

As for actual play he plays much more like a guard then he does forward.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

I really liked Duane in this game. Hopeful that he can be a 20+ minute contributor going forward. Though I did have a moment in the second half where I thought: "damn, it he took a no pass, contested three, with 20 seconds still left on the shot clock like that when Buzz was coach...he would have sat for the rest of the season!"

Cohen also looked silky smooth. Was very pleasantly surprised.
Quote from: Goose on January 15, 2023, 08:43:46 PM
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


tower912

FWIW, I was very pleased with the way Duane played in the second half.    And they are all going to have to be 20 mpg contributors.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

WarriorFan

I saw three pretty decent point guards play for MU today and was pleased not only with their individual play but also with the different looks they enable us to give opponents. 

I also think we're going to see Derrick playing off the ball a bit this year because he's not a bad rebounder.  For a couple minutes it seemed he was playing a "mini-4".  If he can guard a bigger man (not the case today), box out and get a couple boards that would be a nice contribution to this size-challenged team. 
"The meaning of life isn't gnashing our bicuspids over what comes after death but tasting the tiny moments that come before it."

GGGG

I didn't see the game, but I got the impression from twitter that WL's guards were awful.  I think it is probably difficult to make a presumption about any of them until you see them against scholarship kids at least.

willie warrior

Oh boy--here we go again, countless posts glorifying the Elite One. Well we can end the hyperbole now. The Elite One will always be that. But Duane Wilson will soon be the man!
I thought you were dead. Willie lives rent free in Reekers mind. Rick Pitino: "You can either complain or adapt."

g0lden3agle

Quote from: willie warrior on November 09, 2014, 07:05:44 AM
Oh boy--here we go again, countless posts glorifying the Elite One. Well we can end the hyperbole now. The Elite One will always be that. But Duane Wilson will soon be the man!

At the end of the season what will Derrick's average MPG be?

avid1010

it will be interesting to see how wojo handles it...derrick doesn't have an upside unless he helps you achieve a level of wins that  makes it worth it.  if henry is a one or two year player...i wouldn't want to waste that opportunity by not having a PG on the team that has seen true time at the position.  if i'm wojo, looking at this team, i might find it a lot smarter to play duane and john heavy at the point in hopes that by mid-year they are as good as derrick and by the end of the year better.  that leaves you in a lot better position in 2015-16.  in my opinion, seniors have to be noticeable better than anyone else on the team to play as their development is essentially over. 

BallBoy

If this game is any reflection of how Wojo is going to play this season there is going to be a two man rotation between Carlino and Derrick Wilson. Most of the time Duane was off ball and either Carlino or Derrick were at point. Duane will be capable of playing the point and will do so on occasion but he won't be logging his majority of minutes there.

On thing which was apparent is that Dawson is the last guy off the bench. He was the only one without 20+ minutes and his stat line was unimpressive against D3 talent. Some of this was foul related. If Dawson is the last man off the bench and does not have much PT then another Buzz blew the season hypothesis goes away.

Based on the majority of comments in this thread I think we all agree if Duane was available last season then Derrick would not have played 30+ minutes.

GGGG

Quote from: avid1010 on November 09, 2014, 07:47:37 AM
it will be interesting to see how wojo handles it...derrick doesn't have an upside unless he helps you achieve a level of wins that  makes it worth it.  if henry is a one or two year player...i wouldn't want to waste that opportunity by not having a PG on the team that has seen true time at the position.  if i'm wojo, looking at this team, i might find it a lot smarter to play duane and john heavy at the point in hopes that by mid-year they are as good as derrick and by the end of the year better.  that leaves you in a lot better position in 2015-16.  in my opinion, seniors have to be noticeable better than anyone else on the team to play as their development is essentially over. 


You play to win the games in front of you. 

willie warrior

Quote from: WarriorFan on November 09, 2014, 06:09:58 AM
I saw three pretty decent point guards play for MU today and was pleased not only with their individual play but also with the different looks they enable us to give opponents. 

I also think we're going to see Derrick playing off the ball a bit this year because he's not a bad rebounder.  For a couple minutes it seemed he was playing a "mini-4".  If he can guard a bigger man (not the case today), box out and get a couple boards that would be a nice contribution to this size-challenged team. 
Now that is funny. The Elite one as a mini-4! Let's go full enchilada and make him a mini-5, since he is such an elite gamechanger.
I thought you were dead. Willie lives rent free in Reekers mind. Rick Pitino: "You can either complain or adapt."

GGGG

Quote from: willie warrior on November 09, 2014, 09:55:08 AM
Now that is funny. The Elite one as a mini-4! Let's go full enchilada and make him a mini-5, since he is such an elite gamechanger.


Dude, it's a new season.  Time for people to let it go.

MU82

Quote from: BallBoy on November 09, 2014, 08:45:06 AM

On thing which was apparent is that Dawson is the last guy off the bench. He was the only one without 20+ minutes and his stat line was unimpressive against D3 talent. Some of this was foul related. If Dawson is the last man off the bench and does not have much PT then another Buzz blew the season hypothesis goes away.


This does not surprise me.

Dawson had one good stretch in one game last season. He might have had a few more if he were given the opportunity, but then again he might have been exposed as a relatively untalented player, too. I'm on record as saying I wish he would have gotten a chance just because what Buzz was doing obviously wasn't working, but I certainly didn't see anything that screamed, "John Dawson is a high-major starting PG!"

He looks to be an end-of-rotation player who might or might not develop into a contributor one day -- which is pretty much what most thought he would be when he was brought in as the last man in that recruiting class. Just looking at their respective sizes and attributes, Sandy Cohen would seem much more likely to a contributor at this level, and I have no idea if that will be the case, either.

I think it's safe to say that if Dawson can't find playing time this season and will have been judged inadequate by a second coaching staff, he would have to seriously consider going to a mid-major where he could play.

But who knows? Maybe an injury or some other circumstance will force Dawson to be given an extended run and he will prove me wrong. One of the great things about sports is that those kind of crazy stories happen pretty darn often.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

GGGG

I think Dawson has a well rounded game.  He can handle well, shoot well and defend well.  The question that is still out there is if he can do any of that with consistency at a high-major level.  We will see after this season how much of a chance he gets, but there still will be opportunities next year.  Derrick and Carlino will be leaving, and the only other returning guard with "point skills" will be Duane.  And Nick is the only incoming player at this point that would threaten taking away time at the point.

brandx

Quote from: The Adventures of HE-Man and the Kangaroo Kid on November 08, 2014, 06:20:16 PM
Dude, come on. We have 9 players on our team. You really think Derrick is worthless as a college player? He averaged 13 mpg on an elite 8 team with a full bench.

You are right - statistically. In reality, he got those 13 minutes only because he was the only other true PG on the team and someone had to give Junior a break and step in when he got into foul trouble.

Buzz' choices were a brutally bad PG with some defensive value or a freshman who wasn't ready. I think an argument could be made (and has been here) to go in either direction. Buzz made a decision and it worked out terribly. Chances are it would have been the same if he went the other route, but we will never know.

brandx

Quote from: TheBurrEffect on November 08, 2014, 11:17:57 PM
If were going with height comparisons for positions instead of attributes like dribbling ability, speed, power ect. Then at 6-4 he is as close to a guard as he is to a forward.

As for actual play he plays much more like a guard then he does forward.

Huh????

MU82

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on November 09, 2014, 10:13:05 AM
I think Dawson has a well rounded game.  He can handle well, shoot well and defend well.  The question that is still out there is if he can do any of that with consistency at a high-major level.  We will see after this season how much of a chance he gets, but there still will be opportunities next year.  Derrick and Carlino will be leaving, and the only other returning guard with "point skills" will be Duane.  And Nick is the only incoming player at this point that would threaten taking away time at the point.

Perhaps.

But I have read many reports that Cohen and, especially, Cheatham have some point-guard skills. And Wojo might prefer to give minutes to those kinds of players as opposed to a less-talented guy who supposedly is "more point-guardy."

Again, this is all conjecture -- more than I'm comfortable with, frankly. Maybe Dawson will get a real chance this season and will do some good things to suggest he does have what it takes to succeed at this level.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

WarriorFan

Quote from: willie warrior on November 09, 2014, 09:55:08 AM
Now that is funny. The Elite one as a mini-4! Let's go full enchilada and make him a mini-5, since he is such an elite gamechanger.
Seriously???  I said box out and a couple boards.  Not "elite" nor "gamechanger".  Read my previous posts on Derrick, I'm a realist... BUT -   He's the strongest guy on the team.  He might need to guard someone bigger out of necessity.  
"The meaning of life isn't gnashing our bicuspids over what comes after death but tasting the tiny moments that come before it."

tower912

Quote from: WarriorFan on November 09, 2014, 10:18:00 AM
Seriously???  I said box out and a couple boards.  Not "elite" nor "gamechanger".  Read my previous posts on Derrick, I'm a realist... BUT -   He's the strongest guy on the team.  He might need to guard someone bigger out of necessity.  

Yesterday, Duane was guarding one of WL's 'bigs' in the post.   The WL post was able to hold Duane off with one arm.   Duane is longer, but he is still very thin.   Sometimes, Derrick is going to have to wrestle the 6'7 guy simply because of his strength and tenacity.    Preferred option?  Of course not.   Best of a selection of bad options?   Sometimes. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Nevada233

Quote from: MU82 on November 09, 2014, 10:05:18 AM
This does not surprise me.

Dawson had one good stretch in one game last season. He might have had a few more if he were given the opportunity, but then again he might have been exposed as a relatively untalented player, too. I'm on record as saying I wish he would have gotten a chance just because what Buzz was doing obviously wasn't working, but I certainly didn't see anything that screamed, "John Dawson is a high-major starting PG!"

He looks to be an end-of-rotation player who might or might not develop into a contributor one day -- which is pretty much what most thought he would be when he was brought in as the last man in that recruiting class. Just looking at their respective sizes and attributes, Sandy Cohen would seem much more likely to a contributor at this level, and I have no idea if that will be the case, either.

I think it's safe to say that if Dawson can't find playing time this season and will have been judged inadequate by a second coaching staff, he would have to seriously consider going to a mid-major where he could play.

But who knows? Maybe an injury or some other circumstance will force Dawson to be given an extended run and he will prove me wrong. One of the great things about sports is that those kind of crazy stories happen pretty darn often.

I mean you guys on message boards are saying things that the coaches aren't even saying about these kids...
Getting in foul trouble in a scrimmage against a team that would lose at the YMCA does not give me any indication that Dawson does not have what it takes to suceed at this level.

Thats like saying Juan Anderson is a first round draft pick because he scored 27 last night, which we know is not true...

Dwight Buycks was another unrated point guard that everyone assumed wouldn't make it and he's doing pretty good for himself if I might say so myself... Respect the process, if it doesn't work out for him fine but the armchair coaching kills me...

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