assistant coaches turnover

[dwaderoy2004]

a lot of people have criticized our assistant coaching turnover.  This article on Pitino shows that he also hires the best he can get with the expectation of them leaving to get their own head coaching jobs...

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/7421310

'The only thing I try to do when I hire, I tell the guys I'm not hiring assistant coaches, I'm hiring coaches," Pitino said. "'Don't stay too long, become your own man, work as hard as you can work.'

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I don't think you want to make that comparison. Pitino's guys have generally stayed for several years.

Anybody staying with Crean for more than a single season has been the exception to the rule.

[Coobeys Oil Depot]

I don't think you want to make that comparison. Pitino's guys have generally stayed for several years.

Anybody staying with Crean for more than a single season has been the exception to the rule.

Horn and Stephens were with Crean for more then a season. Rab has been here more then a season. Seltzer is in his second season. I believe Kowalczyk was here two seasons. Do we count Buckley even though he left after the first season but has returned? Don't forget about Jeff Strohm.

That seems a pretty good number. How many coaches have been hired under Crean? Seems it may be close to a 50/50 thing and, if so, the exception to the rule statement would be wildly incorrect.

[Pakuni]

Speaking of Darrin Horn, he gets some props from SI's Seth Davis this week:

6 Mid-major coaches who could be moving up ...

Darrin Horn | Western Kentucky: The Hilltoppers have won 67 games over the last three years and are poised to make their first trip to March Madness under Horn, who led them to the Sweet 16 as a player.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/seth_davis/11/13/5.min.guide119/index.html

[4thAndState]

I also look for more stability going forward with the current quality group of assistants that we have. Buckley will likely be here awhile, given this is his second time around. He is also a testiment to the positive environment that TC has created, given that he could have likely went other places as an assistant after he was ousted as a head coach. With Buzz's recruiting prowess, I think he will be seen as an extremely valuable piece to the coaching staff. Bernie Seltzer, in his second season, has many of the same attributes and abilities. While I agree there has been too much AC turnover, I'm thinking we are in an era of relative stability.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Speaking of Darrin Horn, he gets some props from SI's Seth Davis this week:

6 Mid-major coaches who could be moving up ...

Darrin Horn | Western Kentucky: The Hilltoppers have won 67 games over the last three years and are poised to make their first trip to March Madness under Horn, who led them to the Sweet 16 as a player.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/seth_davis/11/13/5.min.guide119/index.html

That link also has DJ as a 2nd team All-American.

Seriously, is there anybody on this board who agrees with that? I don't care whether you love watching him play, think he's a potential NBA draft pick or what, picking him as 2nd team All American is curious at best. Where do these guys come up with this stuff?

[Coobeys Oil Depot]

Speaking of Darrin Horn, he gets some props from SI's Seth Davis this week:

6 Mid-major coaches who could be moving up ...

Darrin Horn | Western Kentucky: The Hilltoppers have won 67 games over the last three years and are poised to make their first trip to March Madness under Horn, who led them to the Sweet 16 as a player.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/seth_davis/11/13/5.min.guide119/index.html

That link also has DJ as a 2nd team All-American.

Seriously, is there anybody on this board who agrees with that? I don't care whether you love watching him play, think he's a potential NBA draft pick or what, picking him as 2nd team All American is curious at best. Where do these guys come up with this stuff?

They're probably banking on him returning more to his 1st year production. Also, James is the highest scoring active Junior in the country. Granted, not the first thing you want from your PG but nonetheless it is an achievement that can't be overlooked. Add to that, Marquette is a top 10 rated team in the 2nd best conference in the country and many feel they could have been a darkhorse for the Final Four and you could see why "experts" picked DJ out of the group. Of course, now with TM and SC out, our expectations may not reach those heights.

Also, what are your thoughts on my response about the assistant coaches?

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Also, what are your thoughts on my response about the assistant coaches?

I don't have the desire to go through a find the names of all the coaches that have left after a year, but it's a long list. In fact, I believe it was two years ago we lost our entire staff other than Rab. The past year, we kept one guy. Also, althought I think he's a great coach and a godsend for Crean, Rab is a special circumstance as far as staying put.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Speaking of Darrin Horn, he gets some props from SI's Seth Davis this week:

6 Mid-major coaches who could be moving up ...

Darrin Horn | Western Kentucky: The Hilltoppers have won 67 games over the last three years and are poised to make their first trip to March Madness under Horn, who led them to the Sweet 16 as a player.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/seth_davis/11/13/5.min.guide119/index.html

That link also has DJ as a 2nd team All-American.

Seriously, is there anybody on this board who agrees with that? I don't care whether you love watching him play, think he's a potential NBA draft pick or what, picking him as 2nd team All American is curious at best. Where do these guys come up with this stuff?

Honestly, I can see it.

Call me an optimist... but he doesn't turn the ball over much (if at all), plays very good D, rebounds well.

His sore point is free-throw shooting (which looks much better in the first two games) and shot selection/decision making. If he takes better shots, the offense should flow better and his shooting % and assists should go up.

I can see it. I'm not promising it... but i can see it.

[Big Papi]

Also, what are your thoughts on my response about the assistant coaches?

I don't have the desire to go through a find the names of all the coaches that have left after a year, but it's a long list. In fact, I believe it was two years ago we lost our entire staff other than Rab. The past year, we kept one guy. Also, althought I think he's a great coach and a godsend for Crean, Rab is a special circumstance as far as staying put.

You don't have to have the desire to go through all the various assitant coaches we have had.  You stated "Anybody staying with Crean for more than a single season has been the exception to the rule."  and Coobey's Oil Depot had the desire and adequately proved you wrong.  Have we had more than our share of assistants leaving after one year?  Yes but its hardly the rule.  Furthermore your hatred for Crean comes out front and center once again as Rab's tenure here is explained by you as a special circumstance.  Nice.  If that is the case than I would like to throw out Panaggio, Sichting and Green as special circumstances as well.  See two can play that game.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Furthermore your hatred for Crean comes out front and center once again as Rab's tenure here is explained by you as a special circumstance.  Nice.  If that is the case than I would like to throw out Panaggio, Sichting and Green as special circumstances as well.  See two can play that game.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

[🏀]

Also, what are your thoughts on my response about the assistant coaches?

I don't have the desire to go through a find the names of all the coaches that have left after a year, but it's a long list. In fact, I believe it was two years ago we lost our entire staff other than Rab. The past year, we kept one guy. Also, althought I think he's a great coach and a godsend for Crean, Rab is a special circumstance as far as staying put.

You don't have to have the desire to go through all the various assitant coaches we have had.  You stated "Anybody staying with Crean for more than a single season has been the exception to the rule."  and Coobey's Oil Depot had the desire and adequately proved you wrong.  Have we had more than our share of assistants leaving after one year?  Yes but its hardly the rule.  Furthermore your hatred for Crean comes out front and center once again as Rab's tenure here is explained by you as a special circumstance.  Nice.  If that is the case than I would like to throw out Panaggio, Sichting and Green as special circumstances as well.  See two can play that game.

What's Panaggio, Sichting, and Green's special circumstance? Doubt it isn't ANYTHING like Rab's.

[Marquette84]

I don't have the desire to go through a find the names of all the coaches that have left after a year, but it's a long list. In fact, I believe it was two years ago we lost our entire staff other than Rab. The past year, we kept one guy. Also, althought I think he's a great coach and a godsend for Crean, Rab is a special circumstance as far as staying put.

Is it the time?  Or is it that your whole rant becomes lame when you actually look at the record.

Three assistant positions:
1.  Stephens (4 years), Ellis (2 years), Pagnaggio (1 year), Sichting (1 year), Buckley (currently 1st year)

2.  Buckley (1 year), Kowalczyk (2 years), Strohm (3 years), Prioleau (1 year), Seltzer (currently 2nd year)

3.  Horn (4 years), Green (1 year) Rabidoux (3 years as asst, but still with program), Williams (currently in 1st year)


Of the 1 year assistants:
Pagnaggio got a head coaching job in the D-league
Sichting was an NBA assistant who returned to the NBA as expected
Buckley and Green got college head coaching jobs

Of the others who left:
Ellis retired following the death of his daughter
Kowalczyk took a HC job
Horn took a HC job
Strom took a job with Horn.

In other words, your beef THIS time is that Crean has hired ambitious and talented coaches who move up the coaching ladder.

There is apparently no satisfying you.

If only Crean hired guys who SIMPLY WEREN'T AS GOOD!  Forget bringing in NBA/CBA guys like Sichting or Pagnaggio--even if you DO want to develop a pro set offense.  It's far better to have a journeyman college coach simply so you can say he's got five years with the program.  Stop with the guys who are good enough to earn their own HC jobs--we don't want to see our assistants move on to their own jobs.  And stop encouraging those assistants to pursue their careers.  Instead of recomending your staff for these openings, Crean should quietly badmouth them so they never get another job offer--THAT way we won't have any turnover in the assistant ranks!

What we really need to satisfy you is a guy like Pete Gaudet.  Was a long-tenured (12 years) Duke assistant when the team needed him to step up.  He couldn't coach to save his life.  But at least he was there a loooong time. 


*** In fact, I believe it was two years ago we lost our entire staff other than Rab.

Nice.  There are three assistants.  So if two move on, you declare it as "the entire staff except Rab."  That comes straight from the USSR book of tricks when they lost to the USA: "our comrades came in 2nd, and the US finished next to last."   

[ChicosBailBonds]

Speaking of Darrin Horn, he gets some props from SI's Seth Davis this week:

6 Mid-major coaches who could be moving up ...

Darrin Horn | Western Kentucky: The Hilltoppers have won 67 games over the last three years and are poised to make their first trip to March Madness under Horn, who led them to the Sweet 16 as a player.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/seth_davis/11/13/5.min.guide119/index.html

Wait a minute now, you provided a link yesterday that you wanted us to all buy into that had Rutgers as one of our non-conference opponents but now you're taking to task a link someone else provides that has a Pre-Season All Big East players as a potential 2nd Team All American?

???

[Big Papi]

Also, what are your thoughts on my response about the assistant coaches?

I don't have the desire to go through a find the names of all the coaches that have left after a year, but it's a long list. In fact, I believe it was two years ago we lost our entire staff other than Rab. The past year, we kept one guy. Also, althought I think he's a great coach and a godsend for Crean, Rab is a special circumstance as far as staying put.

You don't have to have the desire to go through all the various assitant coaches we have had.  You stated "Anybody staying with Crean for more than a single season has been the exception to the rule."  and Coobey's Oil Depot had the desire and adequately proved you wrong.  Have we had more than our share of assistants leaving after one year?  Yes but its hardly the rule.  Furthermore your hatred for Crean comes out front and center once again as Rab's tenure here is explained by you as a special circumstance.  Nice.  If that is the case than I would like to throw out Panaggio, Sichting and Green as special circumstances as well.  See two can play that game.

What's Panaggio, Sichting, and Green's special circumstance? Doubt it isn't ANYTHING like Rab's.

Actually they have no special circumstance which is my point.  If Rab hated to be at MU and hated TC he would have left after one year and taken any job he could have got.  He definitely would not be here for four years and counting, three as an assitant coach.  The fact that PRN views Rab's stay here for longer than one year because of special circumstances stinks of dislike for a certain some one.  But if he has to be viewed as special circumstances than Panaggio and Sichting should be viewed as special circumstance because they left the college ranks for NBA positions and Green I believe received a head coaching position which is considered an upgrade over being an assistant coach.  I am not the one making excuses, I'm just having fun with the poster who made a ridiculous statement. 

[ilovefreeway]

I also look for more stability going forward with the current quality group of assistants that we have. Buckley will likely be here awhile, given this is his second time around. He is also a testiment to the positive environment that TC has created, given that he could have likely went other places as an assistant after he was ousted as a head coach. With Buzz's recruiting prowess, I think he will be seen as an extremely valuable piece to the coaching staff. Bernie Seltzer, in his second season, has many of the same attributes and abilities. While I agree there has been too much AC turnover, I'm thinking we are in an era of relative stability.

I disagree, if Buzz is as good as he seems in his short time here, he's gone to a HC job.  And that is a good thing.  I just hope that Buzz feels good enough here to hold out for a great job and maybe delay his leaving an extra year or two.

[Harrison]

I dont really care to enter this argument...I am very much in the know about many of the AC circumstances and let's just leave it at Crean aint the easiest guy to work for and some of the reasons stated before for guys leaving dont really hold water. 

But it really does not matter at the end of the day.  if AC's dont like Crean and it causes his program to suffer than he will be held accountable and may ultimately lose his job.  pretty simple.  On the other hand he might keep his AC's and never have another one leave yet the program goes down hill will that make people happy?

Frankly I beeleive if he had a little less turnover , such as guys stayed for 2-3-4 years before leaving the program would benefit.  And I know guys have left earlier than that because of Crean.  Crean knows this lack of continuity has hurt the program...it's up to him.

Ironically, with out the turnover we dont get this years recruiting class which I think will turn out to be pretty darn good.  Buzz sealed the deal and all three recruits said he was a huge huge factor...actaully 4 if you thro in the 2009 recruit ( williams)with Taylor, otule and Fulce.

[OpenLook]

[Ilovefreeway says: disagree, if Buzz is as good as he seems in his short time here, he's gone to a HC job.  And that is a good thing.  I just hope that Buzz feels good enough here to hold out for a great job and maybe delay his leaving an extra year or two.]

Freeway -- I think the comment that Buzz may be here a while stems from the fact that if he is seen as a huge value to the program (and I believe many of us feel that way, given his recruiting prowess), then MU compensates him in such a way that it makes it more difficult for him to leave. All ACs should aspire to be head coaches, but Buzz has been there and done that very recently. It did not work out. I'm hoping he gets real comfortable as a higher paid MU AC and is here for the longer haul.

[Big Papi]

[Ilovefreeway says: disagree, if Buzz is as good as he seems in his short time here, he's gone to a HC job.  And that is a good thing.  I just hope that Buzz feels good enough here to hold out for a great job and maybe delay his leaving an extra year or two.]

Freeway -- I think the comment that Buzz may be here a while stems from the fact that if he is seen as a huge value to the program (and I believe many of us feel that way, given his recruiting prowess), then MU compensates him in such a way that it makes it more difficult for him to leave. All ACs should aspire to be head coaches, but Buzz has been there and done that very recently. It did not work out. I'm hoping he gets real comfortable as a higher paid MU AC and is here for the longer haul.

Sorry but didn't you hear that the rule is every assistant coach leaves after one year under TC.  Its a miracle TC can even get any decent assistant coaches to come to MU unless of course there is a special circumstance where Buzz can't land another position and is forced to stick around for an extra year or two.