NCAA Board Vote

[Ellenson Guerrero]

Someone who knows more than I do: should Marquette fans be pleased by the NCAA's decisions to allow the 5 power conference make up their own legislation or nervous?  Part of me thinks this is the first step towards the dissolution of the NCAA, but the other part thinks that this will allow college football programs to maximize $$$ without screwing everything up for the other sports.

[Tums Festival]

I'm not an expert, but some of the things the power 5 want to legislate are cost-of-attendance stipends, insurance, four year scholarship guarantees and allowances for players' families to attend postseason tournaments. If these items only apply to players under scholarship to a power 5 school, wouldn't that make their scholarships more valuable and create an even greater imbalance? Maybe/hopefully the BE can be the basketball exception and and can somehow be grouped with them.

[MtAiryGoldenEagle]

http://johngasaway.com/2014/08/07/more-powerful-power-conferences-wont-change-hoops-much/

More powerful power conferences won't change hoops (much)

"...Outside the "big five" conferences there is a very small number of programs that choose to play in the sandbox where head coaches compete annually for top-100 talent. That list would include the top half of the current Big East, along with the likes of Connecticut, Memphis, UNLV, BYU, Gonzaga, San Diego State, New Mexico, and VCU. And that's about it. Most of these schools will likely look to "opt in" to offering their athletes the same kind of grants-in-aid that players receive in the power conferences. In other words this entire discussion concerns what the top 19 percent of schools will do with regard to their athletes — and how the one percent of schools just on the other side of that boundary will respond."

[GGGG]

Someone who knows more than I do: should Marquette fans be pleased by the NCAA's decisions to allow the 5 power conference make up their own legislation or nervous?  Part of me thinks this is the first step towards the dissolution of the NCAA, but the other part thinks that this will allow college football programs to maximize $$$ without screwing everything up for the other sports.

In the short run, this likely delayed the dissolution of the NCAA.  If the Power 5 weren't given these abilities, I have no doubt that they would have started the process of leaving the NCAA.  This gives them additional powers without the need to recreate the organization.

Is it good?  Bad?  I don't know.  I mean I am all for giving student athletes enhanced scholarships.  And I fundamentally understand why Power 5 programs feel that they deserve more of a say. 

[Atticus]

I suppose it depends on how the BE voting is set up. My understanding i that the BE would have to "opt-in" as a conference instead of allowing individual schools to make the decision. I seem to recall that the BE was in favor of some of the changes, anyways. However, I cant imagine schools like Seton Hall and DePaul are happy to spend more money on athletics when they dont have much to begin with. To keep up with the increased costs of funding athletics and to keep up wit the P5, I'd suspect some BE programs will have to pull funds from elsewhere (coaches salaries, recruiting budgets) just to be able to offer what all the P5 schools offer scholarship kids.

[MtAiryGoldenEagle]

I suppose it depends on how the BE voting is set up. My understanding i that the BE would have to "opt-in" as a conference instead of allowing individual schools to make the decision. I seem to recall that the BE was in favor of some of the changes, anyways. However, I cant imagine schools like Seton Hall and DePaul are happy to spend more money on athletics when they dont have much to begin with. To keep up with the increased costs of funding athletics and to keep up wit the P5, I'd suspect some BE programs will have to pull funds from elsewhere (coaches salaries, recruiting budgets) just to be able to offer what all the P5 schools offer scholarship kids.

Seton Hall AD Pat Lyons: Big East will do what it takes to keep up with Power Five

http://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/sports/high-school/basketball/nj-hoops-haven/2014/08/07/seton-hall-ad-pat-lyons-big-east-will-do-what-it-takes-to-keep-up/13725349/

Q: So you think the Big East will opt-in to the stipends and other Power Five reforms?

"I'd be very surprised if we don't do what the best conferences, the Big Five, do. That's who we believe our competition is, who we want to be around."

"We want to be the best basketball conference in the country, and we're not going to do anything that's puts us at a disadvantage in that respect."

Q. So schools like Iona are going to be under a lot of financial pressure if the cost-of-attendance and other reforms that require more spending trickle down to the mid-major level.

"People have said this is going to hurt the so-called Olympic sports the most. Sports are going to get dropped. You have to decide where you're going to put your resources."

"At a Big East school, if the new rules say you have to infuse another $100,000 or so into your basketball programs, Big East schools are going to figure that out. A school at the mid-major level, that's not easy to figure out. You have to go back over things and say, 'Where are we going to get this?'

"Things are going to be cut, and you're not going to take away from basketball because that's what brings you the most notoriety."

[muguru]

I suppose it depends on how the BE voting is set up. My understanding i that the BE would have to "opt-in" as a conference instead of allowing individual schools to make the decision. I seem to recall that the BE was in favor of some of the changes, anyways. However, I cant imagine schools like Seton Hall and DePaul are happy to spend more money on athletics when they dont have much to begin with. To keep up with the increased costs of funding athletics and to keep up wit the P5, I'd suspect some BE programs will have to pull funds from elsewhere (coaches salaries, recruiting budgets) just to be able to offer what all the P5 schools offer scholarship kids.

Who cares what DePaul thinks/wants?? I have said it for a few years now...they need to drop out of Division 1...period. That's how they operate, so that's how they should proceed.

[mu03eng]

Yeah, as long as MU and the other Big East teams follow suit and match the Power 5 it shouldn't be that big a deal.  In fact things will likely return to the 60s, 70s, and 80s where all the "talent" was going to the power schools.

With the advent of television contracts galore and MAC schools being on tv for all their games, etc. a player didn't need a "power" school to get media attention and in fact it was better to go to a smaller school for the middling talents because of the availability of playing time.

Now, the Power 5 will restore a value differentiation in scholarships between them and the lower level schools.  It means you will likely see less dispersal of talent among the schools and much more concentration at the top schools.  Back to the days of a player who could be an All-American at a smaller school being a back up at a big school.

Not saying if its good or bad, just what it functionally ends up causing.

[Class71]

Not an attorney but the web the NCAA is weaving may give many opportunities for not so privileged schools and players to challenge some of these new rules.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Someone who knows more than I do: should Marquette fans be pleased by the NCAA's decisions to allow the 5 power conference make up their own legislation or nervous?  Part of me thinks this is the first step towards the dissolution of the NCAA, but the other part thinks that this will allow college football programs to maximize $$$ without screwing everything up for the other sports.

Let's put to rest the dissolution of the NCAA, it is not happening.  The money for the NCAA basketball tournament is tied directly to the NCAA, not anyone else.  It goes well into the 2020's.  Think of this as another division without actually creating another division, though also note it isn't a done deal yet.  It can be overturned if enough DI schools try to block it.  If I recall, the number is 70 or 75ish.

The nervous part comes from the recruiting angle.  If MU and other schools, primilarily Big East schools, want to go toe to toe in recruiting, they will have to match what the Power 5 schools are going to offer.  That's more money that will need to be spent.  MU already on record the last 5 years of not wanting 4 year scholarships.  MU lost that vote.  Will MU and other schools continue to play ball in this slightly new world order?  Likely, but it will come at a cost.

[GooooMarquette]

Not an attorney but the web the NCAA is weaving may give many opportunities for not so privileged schools and players to challenge some of these new rules.

I wouldn't be surprised to see challenges...but there have always been costs to being a D-I school.  Not so long ago, there were far fewer D-I schools because of this.  When those schools saw the revenue potential in the move up to D-I, quite a few balanced the cost vs. the possible benefit, and spent the money to move up.  This will basically cause them to do that again...with the likely consequence that the balance between D-I and D-II/III will shift back towards where it used to be.

In the end, it seems like the same-old same-old.  Potential revenues get higher, so costs of sharing in the revenues gets higher as well.

[Spotcheck Billy]

From ESPN.om: If 75 schools from outside the Power Five vote to override the autonomy legislation in the next 60 days, the measures would be sent back to the board of directors for further consideration. But NCAA officials don't expect that to happen. Power Five commissioners have made veiled threats about breaking off to form their own division if autonomy fails.

I wonder if the BEast CAN follow suit so easily as that same article states only the Power 5 were granted that right: The NCAA Board of Governors' vote to grant autonomy Thursday to the five biggest revenue-producing FBS conferences and Notre Dame should be remembered as a historic day in intercollegiate athletics. On this day, the NCAA voted that the strong shall inherit the earth.

[GGGG]

I wouldn't be surprised to see challenges..

Legal challenges?  I doubt it.  They are voluntary members of an organization and therefore agreed to be subject to its governing structure.

[GGGG]

Let's put to rest the dissolution of the NCAA, it is not happening.  The money for the NCAA basketball tournament is tied directly to the NCAA, not anyone else.

Yeah I would like to see what outs CBS has if the NCAA is significantly changed if the Power 5 drop out.

[MUDPT]

Yeah I would like to see what outs CBS has if the NCAA is significantly changed if the Power 5 drop out.

I doubt they change the NCAA tournament.  I don't think they would come close to the amount of money if they took out the Cinderellas.  The Dukes of the world need the Mercers, at least to sell the first two days.

[EnderWiggen]

Out of curiosity, does this have any implications for the NCAA tournament? It wouldn't be restricted to P5(6) teams, right?

Edit - and that's what i get for not reading the new posts after I started typing my response

[Tums Festival]

If the Big East wants to play with the power 5, it'll have to pay. I think the BE has enough desire and resources to do just that (thank you Fox Sports). This may also bring expansion up as a topic again if some hoops only schools out there don't want to be considered second-tier.

[GGGG]

I doubt they change the NCAA tournament.  I don't think they would come close to the amount of money if they took out the Cinderellas.  The Dukes of the world need the Mercers, at least to sell the first two days.

Very likely yes.  Which is one of the reasons that the Power 5 isn't going to leave the NCAA.  But if they weren't given this flexibility, and made the decision to leave the NCAA, my guess is that they would still have gotten a very hefty check by the likes of ESPN to host a 32 team national championship tournament. 

[bilsu]

I am not worried about the Big East. They will change to keep up and it is a lot less costly to do so for schools that do not have football. On the plus side maybe division one will shrink from 330+ schools to something less than 300.

[GGGG]

Here is a good summary of what the legislation entails.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/08/06/sports/ncaa-autonomy-translation.html?_r=0

[ChicosBailBonds]

I doubt they change the NCAA tournament.  I don't think they would come close to the amount of money if they took out the Cinderellas.  The Dukes of the world need the Mercers, at least to sell the first two days.

Unless things change, there are no outs.  We were bidders for the last tournament, before CBS and Turner combined on their deal.  The money goes to the NCAA without anything in there talking about if the makeup of DI was radically changed.  That being said, those were request for proposals and actual contract language may be something different, though if I were the NCAA I would made it absolutely conditional to the rights purchaser that the money goes to the NCAA in Indianapolis, and not anywhere else.  The only protection would be a complete dissolution of the NCAA D1, which isn't going to happen. That type of protection would be in there, but not if some schools spun off.  At least not in the bidding process.

In looking at the Seton Hall comments, absolutely Olympic Sports are going to get hurt as mentioned here many times.  I know some of you don't give a rat's behind about Olympic sports, but to me that is sad.  Great opportunities for young men and young women will be removed which I don't see as a good thing.

[mu03eng]

From ESPN.om: If 75 schools from outside the Power Five vote to override the autonomy legislation in the next 60 days, the measures would be sent back to the board of directors for further consideration. But NCAA officials don't expect that to happen. Power Five commissioners have made veiled threats about breaking off to form their own division if autonomy fails.

I wonder if the BEast CAN follow suit so easily as that same article states only the Power 5 were granted that right: The NCAA Board of Governors' vote to grant autonomy Thursday to the five biggest revenue-producing FBS conferences and Notre Dame should be remembered as a historic day in intercollegiate athletics. On this day, the NCAA voted that the strong shall inherit the earth.

Technically, but since they granted it to the Big 5, other conferences or school need to merely apply to be granted the same provisions.  If not, the non-power conference schools would band together to kill the legislation.  Quid Pro Quo

[mu03eng]

Unless things change, there are no outs.  We were bidders for the last tournament, before CBS and Turner combined on their deal.  The money goes to the NCAA without anything in there talking about if the makeup of DI was radically changed.  That being said, those were request for proposals and actual contract language may be something different, though if I were the NCAA I would made it absolutely conditional to the rights purchaser that the money goes to the NCAA in Indianapolis, and not anywhere else.  The only protection would be a complete dissolution of the NCAA D1, which isn't going to happen. That type of protection would be in there, but not if some schools spun off.  At least not in the bidding process.

In looking at the Seton Hall comments, absolutely Olympic Sports are going to get hurt as mentioned here many times.  I know some of you don't give a rat's behind about Olympic sports, but to me that is sad.  Great opportunities for young men and young women will be removed which I don't see as a good thing.

Some olympic sports might, some might not, or none will be hurt.  This definitely becomes a decision point for schools whether they want sports to be revenue generators or not.  If yes, they are going to have to put more funds forward at the expense of olympic sports potentially.  If no, than all will stay as it is.

I wouldn't go doom and gloom on the non-revenue sports because of this.

[forgetful]

I don't understand the logic of this new legislation. 

So the power 5 can now provide additional incentives to athletes, presumably to gain a recruiting advantage. 

Their main competitors will all have the same equivalent recruiting advantage as the power 5 and other leading conferences will follow suit.

By providing additional incentives to football and basketball, they also have to provide the same benefits to all other scholarship athletes per Title IX.  So they are going to incur substantially more costs or remove a lot of olympic sports.

All this for a recruiting advantage that will not actually materialize. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Some olympic sports might, some might not, or none will be hurt.  This definitely becomes a decision point for schools whether they want sports to be revenue generators or not.  If yes, they are going to have to put more funds forward at the expense of olympic sports potentially.  If no, than all will stay as it is.

I wouldn't go doom and gloom on the non-revenue sports because of this.

I'm dealing in the reality.  If one school makes that choice, it is less opportunities and certainly more than one school will make that decision.  Will it be epic armageddon?  Depends how that is defined, but there will be lost opportunities, even from some of the major programs.  UCLA, Cal, Wisconsin, etc have all had to drop sports, some even nationally ranked top 10 sports, for various reasons (Title IX, resource allocation, etc) over the years.  This will only push others out the door.  What I'm trying to understand is who benefits in all this?  Seems the basketball and football players on the plantation that have it so bad will get it a little better.  As a result, does this mean we can expect better football and basketball?  Better performance in the classroom, out of the classroom? 

Rest assured, some sports will be dropped and opportunities will be further limited.  It's a pure financial decision and the math won't work.