Derek Jeter

[CTWarrior]

Ken Griffey...Pedro Martinez...Greg Maddux....Ichiro...Randy Johnson...Tom Glavine...Chipper Jones...

Hell Adrian Beltre has a higher career WAR than Jeter does.

Guys whose careers overlapped with Jeter's who had higher career WAR than Jeter entering this season

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Alex Rodriguez
Rickey Henderson
Greg Maddux
Randy Johnson
Albert Pujols
Cal Ripken
Bert Blyleven
Wade Boggs
Chipper Jones
Pedro Martinez
Ken Griffey
Mike Mussina
Tom Glavine
Curt Schilling
Jeff Bagwell
Adrian Beltre
Frank Thomas
Jim Thome
Larry Walker

That's not a lot of guys.  Jeter is/was a great player.  But in no way is he the best player of his generation.

FYI, Jeter's career WAR takes a big hit because every defensive metric used in the WAR calculation rates him as a very bad defensive shortstop.  He'd pass about half the guys on the list if he defensive WAR wasn't so bad.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I love advanced metrics, so I understand the guy's place in history in that respect.

However, if we're just talking meatheaded "eye test", the guy was amazing. Maybe one of the best "eye test" players in the past 50 years.

Rarely made big mistakes, always seemed in control, made big plays at key moments, was on a winning club, always seemed to play well in big games or series, key hits, highlight real plays, hustle all of the time, never in trouble, etc. etc.

I understand these are cliches, so I'm not trying to provide any of this as factual, just trying to illustrate WHY so many people like him. He was great to watch on TV, not as great to read about in box scores.

EDIT:
Also, I love advanced metrics, but I do still have a romantic view on total hits. 3400 is INSANE when you think about it. Very impressive. Dude could swing the lumber.

[swoopem]

There is absolutely no way that Derek Jeter is better than Albert Pujols.  ABSOLUTELY no way.

 And Griffey "injured too much?"  His first ten years in the league were probably better than Jeter's top one or two.  He finished in the top 10 of the MVP vote 7 times during that stretch.

Again I'm 26 years old. I was born in 1988 and probably didn't really start watching baseball (or remembering for that matter) until 1994 when there was the strike. So let's say I started in 1995 when, oh my gosh, Derek Jeter made his debut. Griffey made is debut in 1989 and yes he had 6 awesome years, but that's before I really knew what the hell was going on in the world.

Also comparing their batting stats: Griffey .289 avg, 2,781 hits, 630 hrs, 1,836 RBIs
                                                   Jeter .311 avg, 3,408 hits, 258 hrs, 1,286 RBIs

Everyone knows Griffey is a better power hitter (one of the best ever) but his average his pretty weak and his total number of hits is less, probably due to being injured.

Pujols is the better argument, but he wasn't playing in the 90s when I started to watch baseball. Therefor I'll say he's not the best of my generation and I'll stick with Jeter.

[CTWarrior]

I love advanced metrics, so I understand the guy's place in history in that respect.

However, if we're just talking meatheaded "eye test", the guy was amazing. Maybe one of the best "eye test" players in the past 50 years.

Rarely made big mistakes, always seemed in control, made big plays at key moments, was on a winning club, always seemed to play well in big games or series, key hits, highlight real plays, hustle all of the time, never in trouble, etc. etc.

I understand these are cliches, so I'm not trying to provide any of this as factual, just trying to illustrate WHY so many people like him. He was great to watch on TV, not as great to read about in box scores.

EDIT:
Also, I love advanced metrics, but I do still have a romantic view on total hits. 3400 is INSANE when you think about it. Very impressive. Dude could swing the lumber.

If you watched him every day, you would see that he rarely make mistakes.  Was a very heady player.   But all the headiness in the world couldn't make up for his lack of range.   In his prime the Yankees averaged about an assist more per game from SS whenever he sat and guys like Clay Bellinger or Luis Sojo would take his place.  His jump throws on balls in the hole, for example, were plays that every other shortstop would just plant and throw and was a case of him making an easy play look hard and that fools and impresses a lot of people.

[GGGG]

Again I'm 26 years old. I was born in 1988 and probably didn't really start watching baseball (or remembering for that matter) until 1994 when there was the strike. So let's say I started in 1995 when, oh my gosh, Derek Jeter made his debut. Griffey made is debut in 1989 and yes he had 6 awesome years, but that's before I really knew what the hell was going on in the world.

Also comparing their batting stats: Griffey .289 avg, 2,781 hits, 630 hrs, 1,836 RBIs
                                                   Jeter .311 avg, 3,408 hits, 258 hrs, 1,286 RBIs

Everyone knows Griffey is a better power hitter (one of the best ever) but his average his pretty weak and his total number of hits is less, probably due to being injured.

Pujols is the better argument, but he wasn't playing in the 90s when I started to watch baseball. Therefor I'll say he's not the best of my generation and I'll stick with Jeter.

So let me guess this straight.  You have managed to define players from "your generation" meaning anyone who started playing between 1995 and 1999.

But anyway, let's look again at Griffey and Jeter

Griffey: .284/.370/.538  OPS:  .907
Jeter:  .311/.379/.443  OPS: .822  

Yes Jeter has the better batting average and slightly better on-base.  But Griffey's higher slugging more than makes up for that difference, which is why his OPS is that much higher.

Griffey's career WAR is 86.3...good for 34th all time.
Jeter's is 72.1...good for 57th all time.

[swoopem]

I guess "my generation" was the wrong term. How does childhood work?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

If you watched him every day, you would see that he rarely make mistakes.  Was a very heady player.   But all the headiness in the world couldn't make up for his lack of range.   In his prime the Yankees averaged about an assist more per game from SS whenever he sat and guys like Clay Bellinger or Luis Sojo would take his place.  His jump throws on balls in the hole, for example, were plays that every other shortstop would just plant and throw and was a case of him making an easy play look hard and that fools and impresses a lot of people.

The smart person in me totally understands that.

The guy eating wings, drinking beer and watching the game can't believe how often Jeter makes a good/great play.

(BTW, I'm the smart guy, and the wing-eating moron).

I know he's not quite as good as my eyes are telling me, but I also really enjoy watching him play.

[hairy worthen]

I love advanced metrics, so I understand the guy's place in history in that respect.

However, if we're just talking meatheaded "eye test", the guy was amazing. Maybe one of the best "eye test" players in the past 50 years.

Rarely made big mistakes, always seemed in control, made big plays at key moments, was on a winning club, always seemed to play well in big games or series, key hits, highlight real plays, hustle all of the time, never in trouble, etc. etc.

I understand these are cliches, so I'm not trying to provide any of this as factual, just trying to illustrate WHY so many people like him. He was great to watch on TV, not as great to read about in box scores.

EDIT:
Also, I love advanced metrics, but I do still have a romantic view on total hits. 3400 is INSANE when you think about it. Very impressive. Dude could swing the lumber.

Right, except you are seeing most of that with an east coast bias. If a KC or Brewer shortstop for example played the same way as you describe, it is not a big deal. It is in your face because Jeter is a Yankee. The playoff appearances and winning teams are a result of being on the Yankees. You really can’t use the eye test because of that. If you use his stats, they are good to great, but not mind blowing.

I think Jeter is/was a great player and good character guy. Like you said you can’t argue with 3400 hits. I just don’t think the praise and hype he gets matches up with his play. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Right, except you are seeing most of that with an east coast bias. If a KC or Brewer shortstop for example played the same way as you describe, it is not a big deal.

I don't get it.

Are the camera angles different on the east coast? Do they make him look faster or something?

[hairy worthen]

I don't get it.

Are the camera angles different on the east coast? Do they make him look faster or something?

Oh guns, you are smarter than that.

Jeter may be on sports center 3 times more than another shortstop that makes the same number of good plays. You are getting a bigger sample size so the average fan thinks Jeter is better than he is in relation to other players. Why did Jeter have 3 times more all star appearances than yount even though their offensive stats were similar? Because Jeter had more exposure
 not that hard to figure out

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Oh guns, you are smarter than that.

Jeter may be on sports center 3 times more than another shortstop that makes the same number of good plays. You are getting a bigger sample size so the average fan thinks Jeter is better than he is in relation to other players. Why did Jeter have 3 times more all star appearances than yount even though their offensive stats were similar? Because Jeter had more exposure
 not that hard to figure out

I know, but I'm talking about me, what I personally saw. The games I watched. Not ESPN. Not hype.

The guy was really good/great. He passes the eye test.

I know deep down that Jeter isn't as good as most people claim, but I also know what I saw.

As far as the rest of the nation, I'm not speaking about the collective. You're probably right, but I'm just talking about what I saw (as an avid and educated baseball fan).

For the record, I hate ESPN, the Yankees, the Red Sox, the AL East, etc. But, that doesn't change what I saw.

[hairy worthen]

I know, but I'm talking about me, what I personally saw. The games I watched. Not ESPN. Not hype.

The guy was really good/great. He passes the eye test.

I know deep down that Jeter isn't as good as most people claim, but I also know what I saw.

As far as the rest of the nation, I'm not speaking about the collective. You're probably right, but I'm just talking about what I saw (as an avid and educated baseball fan).

For the record, I hate ESPN, the Yankees, the Red Sox, the AL East, etc. But, that doesn't change what I saw.

Ok that makes sense. My point is if you see the guy on sports center, all you are seeing are the good plays and you see his more than anyone else's. Of course you are going to think he is great.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I live Tony Gwynn and Kid Fish (Trout)

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

We can agree that Jeter, Yount & Molitor were all great players, yes?  They all played America's game the way it should be played.

[NYWarrior]

Everyone knows Griffey is a better power hitter (one of the best ever) but his average his pretty weak and his total number of hits is less, probably due to being injured.

funny - - batting average, really?  

 ... btw, to this point Jeter has played in a grand total of 14 more games that Griffey did in his career.  Jeter was a great player, despite your arguments  

[NYWarrior]

np

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Ok that makes sense. My point is if you see the guy on sports center, all you are seeing are the good plays and you see his more than anyone else's. Of course you are going to think he is great.

Yes, Joe Six pack might think Jeter is better than he actually is. ESPN LOVES the Yankees and Sox.

From my personal view:

#1 I know the advanced metrics, I'm aware of his deficiencies.
#2 I saw the dude play a lot, and I was always VERY impressed.
#3 I love Tim Kirkjen, and he actually ranked Jeter 3rd best SS all time. I don't necessarily agree with Tim, but it something to be considered.

[CTWarrior]

#3 I love Tim Kirkjen, and he actually ranked Jeter 3rd best SS all time. I don't necessarily agree with Tim, but it something to be considered.

I assume Kurkjian rated him ahead of A-Rod in large part because A-Rod played a good chunk of his career at 3B.  If you judge performance on the field (which means you have to overlook the whole steroids issue), A-Rod was vastly superior.  They moved A-Rod to 3B not because Jeter was the better SS (NOBODY thought that), but rather because A-Rod was willing to move and Jeter was not.  Jeter shouldn't benefit in career comparison for being less of a team player.

Anyway, I'd put Honus Wagner, Arky Vaughan, Cal Ripken and A-Rod ahead of him.  He's in the next bunch with Ernie Banks and Robin Yount and Ozzie Smith.  That puts him easily in the top 5-8 (I'd put him at 5) which is tremendous when you think about it.  One big reason Jeter will forever rate comfortably ahead of Banks and Yount on greatest SS lists is because when they couldn't handle the position anymore, they were moved, while Jeter got to stay there.

[🏀]

Anyway, I'd put Honus Wagner, Arky Vaughan, Cal Ripken and A-Rod ahead of him.  He's in the next bunch with Ernie Banks and Robin Yount and Ozzie Smith.  That puts him easily in the top 5-8 (I'd put him at 5) which is tremendous when you think about it.  One big reason Jeter will forever rate comfortably ahead of Banks and Yount on greatest SS lists is because when they couldn't handle the position anymore, they were moved, while Jeter got to stay there.

This

[keefe]

I know he's not quite as good as my eyes are telling me, but I also really enjoy watching him play.

The beauty of baseball is in its precision of measurement. But when an artist plays the game we stop and take note for the sheer elegance. Jeter was one such player.

 

[4everwarriors]

Crash,
You got a collage handy of the broads Jeter porked along the way?

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Giving the gift that keeps on giving?   Did he provide take lovely parting gifts like A Rod?

[keefe]

Crash,
You got a collage handy of the broads Jeter porked along the way?

Doc

Somebody already posted the Derek Jeter Herpes Tree in this thread but I am proud to say that fellow Michigan alum Jeter is a man with a voracious appetite that would make Hugh Hefner proud. Mr. Jeter is not one to satisfy his primal cravings with a humble cheeseburger. This is a man who treats himself to nothing but prime American beef with an occasional Latin dish thrown in as a palate cleanser.

Mr. Jeter may be #2 on the Yankees but he is #1 in the ranks of American Cocksmen. And while noted for 3,000 hits between the white lines it would seem he has hit more tail between the white sheets. And in the storied tradition of yet another notable Gotham Epidemiological Disaster, Mary Mallon, Derek now stands as the proud father of an etiological empire that Attila the Hun himself would be proud to rule over. Derek's bugs now infest the glistening walls of some of America's finest vaginal cavities. I am sure he takes great pride in this accomplishment which truly dwarfs his on-field endeavours.

[4everwarriors]

So you're sayin' his member is resistant to battery acid, aina?

[muwarrior69]

To get back on topic I was wondering how many ball players spend their entire career with same team? In this age of free agency I suspect not too many.