Big Ten to start offering 4 year scholarships football and hoops

[muwarrior69]

So how does this work. A kid is given a 4 year athletic scholarship, he gets injured or paralyzed like the player from Rutgers where he can't play but can still attend classes; does the school loose that scholarship for his remaining eligibility?

[GGGG]

So how does this work. A kid is given a 4 year athletic scholarship, he gets injured or paralyzed like the player from Rutgers where he can't play but can still attend classes; does the school loose that scholarship for his remaining eligibility?

They will likely transition it to an institutional academic scholarship...as with the case as though who leave early for the pros. 

[dgies9156]

The question none of you seem to be asking is, "What's in the new world order for Marquette?"

I'm honestly scared. I like the notion that we have a chance to win the whole enchalada. To be able to compete at the highest levels of college basketball successfully and win -- and be competitive for an NCAA title.

We did it once. We have come close a whole lot of times. We can do it again, so long as the power conferences either don't break away or don't make participation so expensive for Marquette that we cannot compete.

I am fearful we will be left behind because of a wise decision made in 1960 that appears not to be so wise today. In the Jesuits' defense, who could ever have envisioned what was happening today in 1960?

[GGGG]

As long as the NCAA's governance doesn't get warped completely, the Big East just has to agree to offer similar terms for its athletic scholarships. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

They will likely transition it to an institutional academic scholarship...as with the case as though who leave early for the pros. 

Correct

[ChicosBailBonds]

Stop.  Again.  Passive aggressiveness. 


First, I didn't call you a name.  I gave you a command. 

Second, if it doesn't hurt you, you certainly can't seem to let it go.  And believe me, I would have no qualms about doing it again.

Definitely doesn't hurt me.  I enjoyed the command, even it if it was...gasp...passive aggressive in it's own way.  LOL

[ChicosBailBonds]

The question none of you seem to be asking is, "What's in the new world order for Marquette?"

I'm honestly scared. I like the notion that we have a chance to win the whole enchalada. To be able to compete at the highest levels of college basketball successfully and win -- and be competitive for an NCAA title.

We did it once. We have come close a whole lot of times. We can do it again, so long as the power conferences either don't break away or don't make participation so expensive for Marquette that we cannot compete.

I am fearful we will be left behind because of a wise decision made in 1960 that appears not to be so wise today. In the Jesuits' defense, who could ever have envisioned what was happening today in 1960?

I think many of us have stated what it could be and have warned to those that have no clue while they cheer from the sidelines, BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.

The O'Bannon case will be interesting.  Sultan won't like this, but I don't give a damn, considering who the judge is, what her stripes are and who appointed her, I'm guessing the NCAA loses.  That, of course, will be appealed to the 9th  circuit circus which will then appealed all the way to SCOTUS eventually.  In the meantime, yes some reforms will come out of it.  The power 5 are going to do their thing and many smaller conferences and smaller schools will not be able to play in that sandbox.  As much as the Power 5 want to say it is about giving student athletes full value, it is just as much about separation without full separation.  That will keep DI in place, but it will be a bifurcated DI even more so than it is today.  That is, IF, the other schools allow the Power 5 to do what they are asking for.  If they don't, then the Power 5 will create their own division within the NCAA.  I don't see them breaking away from the NCAA anytime soon, because the money is tied to the NCAA, not the individual schools or the conferences.  Delaney, Slive, etc know this all too well.  Fortunately the biggest contract is tied to the NCAA well into the 2020's.

The question comes down to whether a Marquette, Butler, Gonzaga, G'Town, etc is going to mimic what the Power 5 are doing in an effort to keep up with the Jones' and recruit at the same level for student athletes?  The concern I have is some in a conference may while some do not.  Hopefully the conference basically says everyone has to or everyone doesn't, you don't want some dragging down the rest.  You're either committed or you aren't.  That is what I'm looking for.

Nevertheless, some folks should be careful what you wish for....you may just get it.  In all this "justice" nonsense that people are pushing for the 0.5% of all student athletes, there is the other 99.5% that may be impacted greatly from opportunities, etc.  The means less scholarships at some schools that decide to match the Power 5 and have to cut programs.  But hey, at least the 0.5% are being taken care and no longer on the plantation (yes, I've heard those words used...and yes, it's passive aggressive...and I don't give a damn).

[HouWarrior]

I would suggest you read a little deeper.  His comments are dead on.  The media, many people here, are focusing on 0.5% and ignoring the 99.5%, which is ironic as hell considering some of the folks here always chirping about the 99%.  tsk tsk

Some of the things people with no understanding want, will destroy opportunities for the 99% and he is right to explain why.  There are consequences to all actions, problem is that most people (especially those with no business background) don't get.  They think money grows on trees and should be spent accordingly (not you Sultan, but there are plenty that think this way). 

Be careful what you wish for fellas.  Many of you might just have to become fans of a school you may not care about.

Thanks for sharing this. I greatly respect Steve Patterson, and his thoughts/statements reflect key trends and incremental changes clearly coming our way. Instead of conference realignments...the current offseason hot issue is the compensation/scholarship/benefits provided to college athletes. Even the most niggardly of schools must concede that improvements for the student athlete are afoot and changes are required, just to compete.

Steve and I law clerked in the same firm, many many years ago. He is a clear thinker. For some who may not know, Steve is the son of Ray Patterson, founding president of the NBA Bucks, and he was graduated from Wayland Academy in Beaver Dam... before his family came to Houston, when Ray became president of the NBA Rockets.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Thanks for sharing this. I greatly respect Steve Patterson, and his thoughts/statements reflect key trends and incremental changes clearly coming our way. Instead of conference realignments...the current offseason hot issue is the compensation/scholarship/benefits provided to college athletes. Even the most niggardly of schools must concede that improvements for the student athlete are afoot and changes are required, just to compete.

Steve and I law clerked in the same firm, many many years ago. He is a clear thinker. For some who may not know, Steve is the son of Ray Patterson, founding president of the NBA Bucks, and he was graduated from Wayland Academy in Beaver Dam... before his family came to Houston, when Ray became president of the NBA Rockets.

Happy to share.  Steve is a very smart guy and he's looking at the full picture.  Some are saying he is looking at it as a self serving point of view, but I disagree.  He gets that all this nonsense and fuss is about the smallest of smallest group of student athletes and the real risk is to the 99.5% that will never see the light of day of professional sports.  That's not sexy, but that's reality.  I wish he was the one the media was quoting and not some of the bumpkins out there trying to make the NCAA case.  But I'm not sure the media particularly cares with the agenda they are pushing, it's as if the 99.5% don't exist.  It's all about making sure Shabazz Napier's claims of starving are front and center, despite how ridiculous, and what happens to women's hockey, soccer, track, etc, just doesn't cut it...until it is cut or there are programs dropped and then the bandwagon howls will go through the roof.

[GGGG]

I think many of us have stated what it could be and have warned to those that have no clue while they cheer from the sidelines, BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.

The O'Bannon case will be interesting.  Sultan won't like this, but I don't give a damn, considering who the judge is, what her stripes are and who appointed her, I'm guessing the NCAA loses.  That, of course, will be appealed to the 9th  circuit circus which will then appealed all the way to SCOTUS eventually.  In the meantime, yes some reforms will come out of it.  The power 5 are going to do their thing and many smaller conferences and smaller schools will not be able to play in that sandbox.  As much as the Power 5 want to say it is about giving student athletes full value, it is just as much about separation without full separation.  That will keep DI in place, but it will be a bifurcated DI even more so than it is today.  That is, IF, the other schools allow the Power 5 to do what they are asking for.  If they don't, then the Power 5 will create their own division within the NCAA.  I don't see them breaking away from the NCAA anytime soon, because the money is tied to the NCAA, not the individual schools or the conferences.  Delaney, Slive, etc know this all too well.  Fortunately the biggest contract is tied to the NCAA well into the 2020's.

The question comes down to whether a Marquette, Butler, Gonzaga, G'Town, etc is going to mimic what the Power 5 are doing in an effort to keep up with the Jones' and recruit at the same level for student athletes?  The concern I have is some in a conference may while some do not.  Hopefully the conference basically says everyone has to or everyone doesn't, you don't want some dragging down the rest.  You're either committed or you aren't.  That is what I'm looking for.

Nevertheless, some folks should be careful what you wish for....you may just get it.  In all this "justice" nonsense that people are pushing for the 0.5% of all student athletes, there is the other 99.5% that may be impacted greatly from opportunities, etc.  The means less scholarships at some schools that decide to match the Power 5 and have to cut programs.  But hey, at least the 0.5% are being taken care and no longer on the plantation (yes, I've heard those words used...and yes, it's passive aggressive...and I don't give a damn).

Hyperbole.

Why shouldn't an athlete be able to profit off his likeness?  Oh I know "trial lawyers and agents!!!"  Seriously, Johnny Manziel should have been able to make a car ad and pocket some cash if someone was willing to pay him.  Why not?

Enhanced scholarships are good things.  I do not believe that this creates some sort of employee model.

And "be careful what you wish for?"  I don't live in fear of change and yearning for the past like you do.  Time marches on...things change...

[Litehouse]

They will likely transition it to an institutional academic scholarship...as with the case as though who leave early for the pros. 

If that's the case, and it doesn't count against their scholarship limit, I guess I don't see the significance of this.  It's a nice gesture, and maybe affects a miniscule number of kids, but if the schools aren't counting it against their scholarship limit it provides no competitive disadvantage.  For MU in basketball, I can see this hardly ever getting used, maybe once every 10 years.

[ThatDude]

Doeals this mean that if an athlete declares for the NBA/NFL and doesnt get selected,  they could return to school to finish their degree to fulfill the 4 year scholarship offer?

[GGGG]

Doeals this mean that if an athlete declares for the NBA/NFL and doesnt get selected,  they could return to school to finish their degree to fulfill the 4 year scholarship offer?

Yes...but not participate in athletics because they would no longer have eligibility.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Hyperbole.

Why shouldn't an athlete be able to profit off his likeness?  Oh I know "trial lawyers and agents!!!"  Seriously, Johnny Manziel should have been able to make a car ad and pocket some cash if someone was willing to pay him.  Why not?

Enhanced scholarships are good things.  I do not believe that this creates some sort of employee model.

And "be careful what you wish for?"  I don't live in fear of change and yearning for the past like you do.  Time marches on...things change...

We've been through this before and ironically you are using the 0.00001% example in this case.  Because the abuse would be rampant.  Kentucky would tell every recruit, you're going to get paid because each of our alums that owns a car dealership is going to feature you, even if you pay only 10 minutes a game here, come to UK because we can line your pockets. 

Where did I say enhanced scholarships are bad things?  I haven't, at least not for those getting them.  The unfortunate part is that many schools can't do it and that means one thing.  Cuts.  Reduction of other opportunities for other student athletes.  So we take care of the tiniest group and throw the others to the curb in the process.  Consequences.   

It's the other Pandora's box that some of you want to open that I don't think you even realize it is a Pandora's box or that you are opening it that has me concerned.

[GGGG]

We've been through this before and ironically you are using the 0.00001% example in this case.  Because the abuse would be rampant.  Kentucky would tell every recruit, you're going to get paid because each of our alums that owns a car dealership is going to feature you, even if you pay only 10 minutes a game here, come to UK because we can line your pockets. 

Where did I say enhanced scholarships are bad things?  I haven't, at least not for those getting them.  The unfortunate part is that many schools can't do it and that means one thing.  Cuts.  Reduction of other opportunities for other student athletes.  So we take care of the tiniest group and throw the others to the curb in the process.  Consequences.   

It's the other Pandora's box that some of you want to open that I don't think you even realize it is a Pandora's box or that you are opening it that has me concerned.

I don't care if a Kentucky car dealer wants to drop a bunch of cash on players marketing their business.  I truly...do...not...care.  And I *fully* understand the implications.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Patterson is a lawyer, worked for years in pro sports dealing with agents, now a successful AD, he is more qualified to understand what is going on and what could happen than most anyone in this country.  He certainly is qualified to make the statement that much of this is due to lawyers and agents trying to adjust the system for their own gain, especially with his credentials AND if you know the background of who is bringing these lawsuits.  I'm hard pressed to think of anyone MORE qualified.

Finally, he sees the big picture.  He has to also look out for all his other student athletes, the ones that are continually ignored here and by the media.  The soccer team, volleyball, track, softball, golf, etc.  The ones where those sports will be cut at some institutions, further diluting opportunities so we can pamper the 0.5% that feel they are somehow on the plantation (truly remarkable comparison, but people use it).

[GGGG]

Patterson is a lawyer, worked for years in pro sports dealing with agents, now a successful AD, he is more qualified to understand what is going on and what could happen than most anyone in this country.  He certainly is qualified to make the statement that much of this is due to lawyers and agents trying to adjust the system for their own gain, especially with his credentials AND if you know the background of who is bringing these lawsuits.  I'm hard pressed to think of anyone MORE qualified.

Finally, he sees the big picture.  He has to also look out for all his other student athletes, the ones that are continually ignored here and by the media.  The soccer team, volleyball, track, softball, golf, etc.  The ones where those sports will be cut at some institutions, further diluting opportunities so we can pamper the 0.5% that feel they are somehow on the plantation (truly remarkable comparison, but people use it).

Those sports aren't as popular.  Free market.  Frankly the minimum sport requirement is silly and expensive anyway.  If Marquette could drop all sports but men's and women's basketball, that would be fine with me.

[Lennys Tap]

Those sports aren't as popular.  Free market.  Frankly the minimum sport requirement is silly and expensive anyway.  If Marquette could drop all sports but men's and women's basketball, that would be fine with me.

Exactly. Those 0.5% generate the $ used to "pamper" the scholarship athletes in niche sports that have to be subsidized to survive. Another example of Chico preferring the welfare state to the free market.

[keefe]

Those sports aren't as popular.  Free market.  Frankly the minimum sport requirement is silly and expensive anyway.  If Marquette could drop all sports but men's and women's basketball, that would be fine with me.

I am certain Val wouldn't be fine with that. She would likely be on the phone with Fr. Wild just as soon as she completes the weekly Office Depot order

[ChicosBailBonds]

I don't care if a Kentucky car dealer wants to drop a bunch of cash on players marketing their business.  I truly...do...not...care.  And I *fully* understand the implications.

Many others do, and those are the ones making the decisions.  Because it creates an incredibly unbalanced playing field on the recruiting side. 

If you don't care, then I don't know why any rules make sense to you trying to level the playing field. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Those sports aren't as popular.  Free market.  Frankly the minimum sport requirement is silly and expensive anyway.  If Marquette could drop all sports but men's and women's basketball, that would be fine with me.

Title IX reality.   Division I reality.  Again, the NCAA isn't professional sports for a reason.  What you want to do is professionalize it.  If you want these guys to be paid, you want schools to only have a few sports, etc....you should be following professional sports.  Or let NAIA do it.

Some of us, including the federal gov't, are ok with other students having the opportunity to play college sports.  I'm rather proud of what Markus Roeders has done with the women's soccer team, or the men's soccer team's progress, etc, etc.

I guess I'm a man of the people, supporting the little guy.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

Exactly. Those 0.5% generate the $ used to "pamper" the scholarship athletes in niche sports that have to be subsidized to survive. Another example of Chico preferring the welfare state to the free market.

Absolute bullshyte.  The teams do, but not the 0.5%.  The 0.5% are the elite of the elite athletes that can go pro.  Most of the players do not go to the pros, but the dollars, ticket sales, etc are still coming in.  No one from last year's team at MU went to the NBA, did the school make any less money?  No.

Sorry, but Steve Patterson has it more right then you will ever have it on this subject.  You are out of your league.

[Lennys Tap]

Absolute bullshyte.  The teams do, but not the 0.5%. 

LOL. The Michigan "team" was responsible for all the money generated by the sale of Chris Webber's jersey. Not Chris. Bullshyte, pal, er, comrade.

[GGGG]

Title IX reality.   Division I reality.  Again, the NCAA isn't professional sports for a reason.  What you want to do is professionalize it.  If you want these guys to be paid, you want schools to only have a few sports, etc....you should be following professional sports.  Or let NAIA do it.

Why?  The only Marquette sport I really care about is men's basketball.  You have women's basketball for Title IX and all is good. 

[Spotcheck Billy]

Why?  The only Marquette sport I really care about is men's basketball.  You have women's basketball for Title IX and all is good. 

its called bundling, oh wait this isn't about cable tv....