Dwyane Wade Done?

[🏀]

In that case Bosh is wildly overpaid, Wade is significantly overpaid and Lebron is wildly underpaid.

Wade may have been underpaid when they all signed, but he's looking at a significant paycut if they want to keep this together.

[Lennys Tap]

Wade may have been underpaid when they all signed, but he's looking at a significant paycut if they want to keep this together.

Agree.

[ChicosBailBonds]

In that case Bosh is wildly overpaid, Wade is significantly overpaid and Lebron is wildly underpaid.

This year, probably.  Though the term wildly is up for grabs.  Contracts are signed years ago.  They got to 4 finals, won two titles and did it with three guys that were not maxed out.

I'd call that a pretty good return on investment.

[Sunbelt15]

Wade should drop to 13mil a year and Bosh to 11.

[🏀]

I kind of hope Lebron goes to Cleveland or else where.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I kind of hope Lebron goes to Cleveland or else where.

I hope he goes to LA or Chicago and watch either fanbase that has whined incessantly the last 4 years tuck their tail in and now say how wonderful it is.  Then, right before the season starts, LeBron retires and becomes tight end for the Packers or better yet, the Washington Redskins. 

[MU82]

This year, probably.  Though the term wildly is up for grabs.  Contracts are signed years ago.  They got to 4 finals, won two titles and did it with three guys that were not maxed out.

I'd call that a pretty good return on investment.

Wholeheartedly agree.

Every franchise in every sport would like the return on investment the Heat got with these three (and the role players around them).

[dgies9156]

Dwyane is not what he used to be. The question is whether his knees can hold out and his conditioning such that he can stay a servicable NBA guard for another two to four years.

Personally, I think he's done. But I doubt he does.

Guess which opinion matters?

[MU82]

Dwyane is not what he used to be. The question is whether his knees can hold out and his conditioning such that he can stay a servicable NBA guard for another two to four years.

Personally, I think he's done. But I doubt he does.

Guess which opinion matters?

How do you define "done"?

In the season just ended, Wade averaged 19 points (#23 in NBA) on 54.5% shooting (#8 in league). Also averaged nearly 5 rebounds and 5 assists. He also was playing at a pretty high level in the playoffs until the last few games.

Now, he did play only two-thirds of the Heat's regular-season games, and he'll need to play more to really be considered a valuable player. But 19-5-5 on 55% shooting ... if that's "done," what is 17 PPG on 50% shooting (Tony Parker); 18 PPG on 39% (Kemba Walker); 16 PPG on 41% (Gordon Hayward); 14 PPG on 45% (Deron Williams); etc, etc, etc?

[brandx]

How do you define "done"?

In the season just ended, Wade averaged 19 points (#23 in NBA) on 54.5% shooting (#8 in league). Also averaged nearly 5 rebounds and 5 assists. He also was playing at a pretty high level in the playoffs until the last few games.

Now, he did play only two-thirds of the Heat's regular-season games, and he'll need to play more to really be considered a valuable player. But 19-5-5 on 55% shooting ... if that's "done," what is 17 PPG on 50% shooting (Tony Parker); 18 PPG on 39% (Kemba Walker); 16 PPG on 41% (Gordon Hayward); 14 PPG on 45% (Deron Williams); etc, etc, etc?

Need to use the Duncan/Ginobili model. Limit D Wade to 25 minutes a game and sit when needed during regular season. He is still better than most NBA players.

Duncan and Ginobili looked awful spry in the playoffs for being senior citizens.

[MU82]

Need to use the Duncan/Ginobili model. Limit D Wade to 25 minutes a game and sit when needed during regular season. He is still better than most NBA players.

Duncan and Ginobili looked awful spry in the playoffs for being senior citizens.

The Heat did pretty close to that. Wade played only 54 games. He did average more than 30 mins when he played, so maybe they should reduce that. Not only might it help preserve Wade's knees, but it might help develop the depth the Heat sorely needs. Still, as I said, Wade was playing darn well in the playoffs until the last few games; was that wear and tear or just an inopportune time for a slump?

[brandx]

The Heat did pretty close to that. Wade played only 54 games. He did average more than 30 mins when he played, so maybe they should reduce that. Not only might it help preserve Wade's knees, but it might help develop the depth the Heat sorely needs. Still, as I said, Wade was playing darn well in the playoffs until the last few games; was that wear and tear or just an inopportune time for a slump?

I may have said slump - until I saw Splitter destroy him on the dunk attempt.

But, I think he still has a role on a good team for a couple more years.

[martyconlonontherun]

I think he means they adjusted their salaries to get under the cap.  They make more money outside of basketball then their paychecks for the Heat.

Bosh and James have the 8th and 9th highest paid salaries in the NBA.  Wade is 10th.


http://espn.go.com/nba/salaries

Those guys were grandfathered in. James threatened to sign for less with Miami and Cleveland caved and gave him the max so they could at least get 3 picks out of it. Not sure how they took less money?

Edit: I think I'm wrong. I think he just did that for the extra year?

[Wojo'sMojo]

I think Wade is a role player coming off the bench for 20-25 minutes a game going forward. He should still be able to be efficient, but his days of being the man are long gone. I would almost say I wouldn't give him more than the mid level exception if I was a GM. How much is a player who misses a third of the season and played 1300 minutes less than Lebron worth? If I was Lebron, I would get out of Miami as fast as possible. If he's hoping Wade can still play the Robin to his Batman, he is going to be in for a rude awakening.

[Lennys Tap]

Wholeheartedly agree.

Every franchise in every sport would like the return on investment the Heat got with these three (and the role players around them).

Sure, but when 2 of the 3 guys are the best player on the planet and a top 50 of all time guy, number three can be a lot of guys. Chris Bosch is a good shooter for a tall guy. He scored a lot of points and got a lot of rebounds on a really bad team where a lot of points and rebounds were available. ROI on each? Lebron was Apple (pre split) at 100, DWade was Facebook at 25 and Bosch was Cisco at 23. One grand slam, one homer and a guy in your portfolio I'd be looking to replace.

[MU82]

Sure, but when 2 of the 3 guys are the best player on the planet and a top 50 of all time guy, number three can be a lot of guys. Chris Bosch is a good shooter for a tall guy. He scored a lot of points and got a lot of rebounds on a really bad team where a lot of points and rebounds were available. ROI on each? Lebron was Apple (pre split) at 100, DWade was Facebook at 25 and Bosch was Cisco at 23. One grand slam, one homer and a guy in your portfolio I'd be looking to replace.

I agree with most of this, except I don't know who this Bosch guy is  .

But here's the deal: When Riley/Wade/LeBron put The Big Three together, Bosh was already a multiple All-Star and was considered one of the top 3 or 4 free agents available. Somebody was going to give him max money; Toronto offered way more for him to stay. Riley, as smart as he is, knew that just Wade and LeBron wouldn't be enough. The Heat had to overpay for that third cog, even if he was a lesser cog. Not only did they need some of what Bosh had (including height), but his inclusion also was important psychologically.

Yes, Bosh is no LeBron, and he's not close to an in-his-prime Wade, either. But Bosh did get the rebound that allowed the Heat to stay alive in last year's Finals, and he did hit a huge 3 to help the Heat vanquish the Pacers a few weeks ago. He has had many excellent all-around playoff games these last 4 years. He has skills and versatility. So while he might be a role player, he's a way, way, WAY above average role player.

It's easy to say that any number of players could have filled the Bosh role next to LeBron and Wade. But with Bosh filling the Bosh role, it's a proven fact that Miami reached the Finals 4 times in 4 chances and won two titles.

Fact usually trumps opinion. (Except, of course, on Scoop!)

[GGGG]

Not only that, but I am not sure who you can replace Bosh with.  The guy has value, and someone is going to give him a lot of money.  Because he doesn't clog the lane with post ups, and can shoot reasonably well, he does a good job keeping people out of the lane.

I mean, they don't win those titles without Bosh.  Is he overpaid?  I guess.  But it's not as though there are a plethora of players out there that could do what he does.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I agree with most of this, except I don't know who this Bosch guy is  .

But here's the deal: When Riley/Wade/LeBron put The Big Three together, Bosh was already a multiple All-Star and was considered one of the top 3 or 4 free agents available. Somebody was going to give him max money; Toronto offered way more for him to stay.

THIS.  It's about timing.  Bosh may not be one of the top 10 players in the NBA, but at the time the team was put together, he was one of the top free agents and that's the key.  It's all a matter of who was available and who could fit into the cap.  Timing is everything.

[buckchuckler]

Manu looked pretty done this time last season

[wadesworld]

I just don't understand the constant criticism of a team that has been to four Finals in a row and is the two time defending champion.  All of the sudden the offense sucks...the players suck...the coach doesn't know what he is doing...

Complete overreactions. 

The coach has never known what he was doing.

[brandx]

The coach has never known what he was doing.

Yeah... cuz Riley really tolerates guys who don't know what they are doing.

[Lennys Tap]

I agree with most of this, except I don't know who this Bosch guy is  .

Hieronymous "Harry" Bosch, LA homicide detective and the protagonist in many of Edgar Award winning author Michael Connelly's novels. I always get him mixed up with Chris.

[Lennys Tap]

But here's the deal: When Riley/Wade/LeBron put The Big Three together, Bosh was already a multiple All-Star and was considered one of the top 3 or 4 free agents available. Somebody was going to give him max money; Toronto offered way more for him to stay. Riley, as smart as he is, knew that just Wade and LeBron wouldn't be enough. The Heat had to overpay for that third cog, even if he was a lesser cog. Not only did they need some of what Bosh had (including height), but his inclusion also was important psychologically.

Yes, Bosh is no LeBron, and he's not close to an in-his-prime Wade, either. But Bosh did get the rebound that allowed the Heat to stay alive in last year's Finals, and he did hit a huge 3 to help the Heat vanquish the Pacers a few weeks ago. He has had many excellent all-around playoff games these last 4 years. He has skills and versatility. So while he might be a role player, he's a way, way, WAY above average role player.

It's easy to say that any number of players could have filled the Bosh role next to LeBron and Wade. But with Bosh filling the Bosh role, it's a proven fact that Miami reached the Finals 4 times in 4 chances and won two titles.

Fact usually trumps opinion. (Except, of course, on Scoop!)

I agree that he's a way, way better than average role player. I just think a role player who's in the top ten in salary is way, way overpaid. And at that price, eminently replaceable.

[MU82]

I agree that he's a way, way better than average role player. I just think a role player who's in the top ten in salary is way, way overpaid. And at that price, eminently replaceable.

1. Each of us is worth exactly what somebody will pay for our services.

2. OK, replace him with whom?

[brandx]

Hieronymous "Harry" Bosch, LA homicide detective and the protagonist in many of Edgar Award winning author Michael Connelly's novels. I always get him mixed up with Chris.

Wasn't her a Dutch painter or something? Painted an album cover for Deep Purple

Their best album by the way.