Guardian Article: US Gun Culture Out of Balance

[Coleman]

BRUTALLY unfunny. Takes cringeworthy to the next level.

+1

[Benny B]

 Whoa!  Nuclear weapons are now available for sale to the general public?  Link?

[MU82]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with our gun culture ... and those who say otherwise are asking to have a few 30-round clips emptied into their faces!

[brandx]

Interesting observations on the Second Amendment and gun control from noted liberals:

“Those who are trying to read the Second Amendment out of the Constitution by claiming it's not an individual right are courting disaster by encouraging others to use the same means to eliminate portions of the Constitution they don't like. ” - Alan Dershowitz, Harvard Law School


“Strict gun laws are about as effective as strict drug laws...It pains me to say this, but the NRA seems to be right: The cities and states that have the toughest gun laws have the most murder and mayhem.” - Mike Royko, Chicago Tribune


“Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.” - Mahatma Gandhi

Generally agree with these statements - a couple minor quibbles.

Dershowitz has been trending conservative on many issues over the last 5-10 years, although most of the time I agree with what he says.

As far as what Royko said, it is hard to quantify that since cities that enact these laws do so because there is already so much gun violence occurring. So I don't know that we can flat out say that the gun violence is occurring because of the stricter laws. By the time they enact these laws, all the bad guys are already armed to the teeth.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Generally agree with these statements - a couple minor quibbles.

Dershowitz has been trending conservative on many issues over the last 5-10 years, although most of the time I agree with what he says.

I would say trending libertarian.

[Badgerhater]

"AK 47 uses a 7.62×39mm bullet."

An SKS also uses that round and I have found it effective when deer hunting.  But I shoot within 100 yards.  I would not use that rifle for longer shots.

[Badgerhater]

"assault rifle" is a term that describes how a rifle looks, not how it operates mechanically.   Manufacturers can bypass such bans.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/investigations/NY-Gun-Control-Safe-Act-Assault-Weapons-Semiautomatic-AR-15-258323561.html

[brandx]

I would say trending libertarian.

I think you are closer to being correct than I.

[brandx]

"assault rifle" is a term that describes how a rifle looks, not how it operates mechanically.   Manufacturers can bypass such bans.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/investigations/NY-Gun-Control-Safe-Act-Assault-Weapons-Semiautomatic-AR-15-258323561.html

Sometimes my arguments against certain guns or large magazines make me sound anti-gun. I am not. I have no problem with hunting, owning a gun for protection, collecting, range shooting, etc.

But it is not black & white. There can be reasonable limits.

[Badgerhater]

I am a 25-year member of the military, a hunter and enjoy shooting sports.  I have a CCW permit, but rarely, if ever, carry.  I own an AR-15.  I have been around guns all of my life and am a member of the NRA.   I probably shoot 5-8 times a year.

I do not agree with all stances of the NRA; however, I have absolutely zero trust regarding those activists who push for gun legislation.  Part of that is most people who want to ban particular guns (or all guns) are utterly ignorant about they want to ban.

Most laws pushed recently would not take a single gun out of the hands of a criminal, but either makes things more onerous for the law abiding or turns suddenly turns law-abiding people into lawbreakers.   There are probably good ideas for gun regulation mixed with the vast number of ill-conceived laws that are proposed by politicians who want to show they are "concerned"; but they are lost in the heap of bad and useless proposals pushed by those who do not want anyone to have a firearm.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I don't personally care what type of guns are sold, just follow gun registration at purchase (not sure on the gun show side tho) and enforce penalties for those committing crimes with a(ny) weapon

for the record I do not own guns but have occasionally target shot for much fun up nort' with buddies

[Badgerhater]

Sometimes my arguments against certain guns or large magazines make me sound anti-gun. I am not. I have no problem with hunting, owning a gun for protection, collecting, range shooting, etc.

But it is not black & white. There can be reasonable limits.

We could probably hash out our mutual definition of reasonable at any one of MU's finer drinking establishments; however, reasonable in the hands of anti-gun activists means something else entirely.

[keefe]

Generally agree with these statements - a couple minor quibbles.

Dershowitz has been trending conservative on many issues over the last 5-10 years, although most of the time I agree with what he says.

As far as what Royko said, it is hard to quantify that since cities that enact these laws do so because there is already so much gun violence occurring. So I don't know that we can flat out say that the gun violence is occurring because of the stricter laws. By the time they enact these laws, all the bad guys are already armed to the teeth.

I think that Dershowitz is becoming more Jeffersonian in his thinking but he is hardly ever going to become an NRA member. I also agree with your thought that the reason high crime jurisdictions have gun control is because they have high crime in to begin with. (Reference the Alf Landon/Literary Digest example of statistical sample.)

But I do believe that there is a very high correlation between gun ownership and deterrence.

At the end of the day, Jefferson merely articulated the thinking of virtually every single Founding Father - an armed citizenry is the surest deterrent to political despotism. Even the patron saint of non-violent resistance noted that the British prohibition on Indians owning arms was for one reason: It enabled 100,000 Brits to rule over 350,000,000 Indians. Authorizing the private possession of weapons has been a cornerstone of democratic political philosophy for centuries. Preventing it has been a control mechanism of authoritarianism and political repression for longer.

“That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there! ”- George Orwell

“Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence. From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to ensure peace, security, and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” - George Washington, in a speech to Congress, January 7,1790


“One of the ordinary modes, by which tyrants accomplish their purposes without resistance, is, by disarming the people, and making it an offence to keep arms, and by substituting a regular army in the stead of a resort to the militia. The friends of a free government cannot be too watchful, to overcome the dangerous tendency of the public mind to sacrifice, for the sake of mere private convenience, this powerful check upon the designs of ambitious men..” - Joseph Story, Familiar Exposition of the Constitution of the United States


“The people of the various provinces are strictly forbidden to have in their possession any swords, short swords, bows, spears, firearms, or other types of arms. The possession of unnecessary implements makes difficult the collection of taxes and dues and tends to foment uprisings.” - Toyotomi Hideyoshi, Shogun of Japan


“The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so. ” - Adolf Hitler Tischegesprache Im Fuhrerhauptquartier

[keefe]

Sometimes my arguments against large magazines make me sound anti-ESPN.

x

What do you have against the World Wide Leader?

[brandx]

We could probably hash out our mutual definition of reasonable at any one of MU's finer drinking establishments; however, reasonable in the hands of anti-gun activists means something else entirely.

Yeah, I think most people on both sides are fairly reasonable. It's the 10% at each end that preclude getting anything done. And they are the ones making the decisions. Both of those sides are absolute in what they want, so we get nothing of substance.

[keefe]

"AK 47 uses a 7.62×39mm bullet."

An SKS also uses that round and I have found it effective when deer hunting.  But I shoot within 100 yards.  I would not use that rifle for longer shots.

Well, you could try to shoot at down range targets but those deer will live to see another day.

I am guessing you own a PLA Type 56?

[ChicosBailBonds]

BRUTALLY unfunny. Takes cringeworthy to the next level.

I suppose I could have called her Hitler or some of the other wonderful things the left typically does about pols they don't like.....you know, BRUTALLY unfunny and cringeworthy.

But, nah

[ChicosBailBonds]

I would say trending libertarian.

He's getting smarter with age....wisdom also taking it up a notch

[ChicosBailBonds]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with our gun culture ... and those who say otherwise are asking to have a few 30-round clips emptied into their faces!

Very strange argument.  So those that say there is nothing wrong with our abortion culture....do they deserve to be aborted themselves?

[Lennys Tap]

Very strange argument.  So those that say there is nothing wrong with our abortion culture....do they deserve to be aborted themselves?

I know you didn't go to med school but it's a little late for that.

[MU82]

Very strange argument.  So those that say there is nothing wrong with our abortion culture....do they deserve to be aborted themselves?

Guess I shoulda used teal.

[Silkk the Shaka]

I suppose I could have called her Hitler or some of the other wonderful things the left typically does about pols they don't like.....you know, BRUTALLY unfunny and cringeworthy.

But, nah

Oh I don't care what you call her. The joke's execution was just horrible.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Oh I don't care what you call her. The joke's execution was just horrible.

In your honor...seeng that avatar you had for a few years prior was inspiration of humor.