[PaintTouches]Marquette Year in Review: John Dawson

[NersEllenson]

Do you have all these talking points saved in some sort of keyboard macro?  I just can't imagine typing the same thing over and over every...single....time.

The only keep getting rehashed in rebuttal to the ridiculous claims of you and a very select few on this board, who just can't drop it...please...go find me another guy who played 32 minutes per game for an entire season at PG position and made 1, 3pt FG for the season on worse than 7% shooting, while going 43% from the FT line.  It was historically awful play...and trying to spin it in any other way is just ludicrous.

I wonder why in the poll 85% of this boards wants DW playing less than 16 minutes per game...Hmm...and wonder why Wojo went out and got a 1 year rental at the same position when he has an incumbent senior on the roster who just played more minutes than any other guy on the team and got all of that experience?

[GGGG]

The only keep getting rehashed in rebuttal to the ridiculous claims of you and a very select few on this board, who just can't drop it...please...go find me another guy who played 32 minutes per game for an entire season at PG position and made 1, 3pt FG for the season on worse than 7% shooting, while going 43% from the FT line.  It was historically awful play...and trying to spin it in any other way is just ludicrous.

I wonder why in the poll 85% of this boards wants DW playing less than 16 minutes per game...Hmm...and wonder why Wojo went out and got a 1 year rental at the same position when he has an incumbent senior on the roster who just played more minutes than any other guy on the team and got all of that experience?

You continue to have an inability to understand the basics of the discussion.  It is very disturbing.

I want Derrick to have less than 16 mpg.  I love the fact that he got Carlino.  Most people say that point guard play was a big problem last year.  Most also say that it was Buzz's fault for getting himself into the position that he was so reliant on a substandard point guard.

We just think he was the better option than Dawson was last year.  No more.  No less.  Stop making the argument more than that.

[NersEllenson]

You continue to have an inability to understand the basics of the discussion.  It is very disturbing.

I want Derrick to have less than 16 mpg.  I love the fact that he got Carlino.  Most people say that point guard play was a big problem last year.  Most also say that it was Buzz's fault for getting himself into the position that he was so reliant on a substandard point guard.

We just think he was the better option than Dawson was last year.  No more.  No less.  Stop making the argument more than that.

Obviously this is where we disagree.  Dawson would have to be freaking awful, historically bad..to be a worse option.  The kid at least tripled Derrick's career 3 point makes in spotty action as a freshman.  Shoots 81% from the FT line...actually needs to be guarded everywhere on the floor.  Derrick?  A great protector of the ball?  Pretty easy to not turn it over when your defender sags 5 feet off of you.

Please..enough with the nonsense until you can find one PG in the last 10 years with 975 minutes of playing time and worse numbers than Derrick....

[GGGG]

Obviously this is where we disagree.  Dawson would have to be freaking awful, historically bad..to be a worse option.  The kid at least tripled Derrick's career 3 point makes in spotty action as a freshman.  Shoots 81% from the FT line...actually needs to be guarded everywhere on the floor.  Derrick?  A great protector of the ball?  Pretty easy to not turn it over when your defender sags 5 feet off of you.

Please..enough with the nonsense until you can find one PG in the last 10 years with 975 minutes of playing time and worse numbers than Derrick....

IMO, Dawson would have been worse if given Derrick's minutes.

[Wojo'sMojo]

First of all, the stats don't show that Dawson was the better player.  Yeah he scored more and had more TFs.  But Derrick turned the ball over less and had more steals. 

Second, you have to understand the role that Derrick was asked to play...and he did it very well.

I started by saying if anything they should be considered equal...there is no way anyone can say Derrick was superior to Dawson's freshman year based on the stats. It is a wash if anything.

[brandx]

I started by saying if anything they should be considered equal...there is no way anyone can say Derrick was superior to Dawson's freshman year based on the stats. It is a wash if anything.

Offensively (the STATS), neither was good.

Defensively, they were in completely different worlds.

[Wojo'sMojo]

Offensively (the STATS), neither was good.

Defensively, they were in completely different worlds.

Derrick has turned in a couple of great defensive games in his career. I think his defensive stalwart persona is more of a myth, created by posters who think he is a great kid and want to be able to compliment him on something. Whatever, neither had a great freshman year...Derrick hasn't improved one iota since being here and regressed actually in some areas.

[Sunbelt15]

Do you have all these talking points saved in some sort of keyboard macro?  I just can't imagine typing the same thing over and over every...single....time.

Pot calling the kettle black on this subject.

[GGGG]

Pot calling the kettle black on this subject.

Well not really.  But if you want to play make-believe, feel free.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Obviously this is where we disagree.  Dawson would have to be freaking awful, historically bad..to be a worse option.  The kid at least tripled Derrick's career 3 point makes in spotty action as a freshman.  Shoots 81% from the FT line...actually needs to be guarded everywhere on the floor.  Derrick?  A great protector of the ball?  Pretty easy to not turn it over when your defender sags 5 feet off of you.

Please..enough with the nonsense until you can find one PG in the last 10 years with 975 minutes of playing time and worse numbers than Derrick....

[Sunbelt15]

Well not really.  But if you want to play make-believe, feel free.

You have to admit that EVERYBODY is saying the same thing and no ones mind is being changed. This John/Derrick debate is mute and dead.

[UticaBusBarn]

You have to admit that EVERYBODY is saying the same thing and no ones mind is being changed. This John/Derrick debate is mute and dead.

Well, this certainly is the truth. Value Added Basketball has them "tied" with a value added of 0.00, and a 9999 no national ranking.

In short, let's all wait until 2014-15 and see how this plays out. Meantime, the snooze button is in order.

[NersEllenson]

Well, this certainly is the truth. Value Added Basketball has them "tied" with a value added of 0.00, and a 9999 no national ranking.

In short, let's all wait until 2014-15 and see how this plays out. Meantime, the snooze button is in order.

I wonder if any player in history of Value Added Basketball has had a value add score of 0.00 while playing more minutes than any other player on their team..averaging over 30 minutes per game, or over 75% of all available minutes for a season?

I agree with their conclusion btw.   

[Lennys Tap]

I wonder why in the poll 85% of this boards wants DW playing less than 16 minutes per game...Hmm...

With him now 3rd or 4th on the depth chart at point guard (behind Carlino, Derrick and probably Duane) what % of this board do you think wants John Dawson to play more than 16 minutes this year? If one can assume that all here are rooting for Marquette that number would be zero.

[Wojo'sMojo]

With him now 3rd or 4th on the depth chart at point guard (behind Carlino, Derrick and probably Duane) what % of this board do you think wants John Dawson to play more than 16 minutes this year? If one can assume that all here are rooting for Marquette that number would be zero.

You have no idea, nor do I or anyone else, what Wojo's depth chart is going to look like. I can guarentee that a bigger % would rather have Dawson getting minutes than Derrick next year. Everyone wants Marquette to do well, most just realize Dawson would help more than Derrick.

[NersEllenson]

With him now 3rd or 4th on the depth chart at point guard (behind Carlino, Derrick and probably Duane) what % of this board do you think wants John Dawson to play more than 16 minutes this year? If one can assume that all here are rooting for Marquette that number would be zero.

Lenny - Let it go man.  Did you not just take note that Value Added just awarded Derrick and Dawson both  a Value Add of 0.00%  Yet, one guy was the max minute getter on the team..the other..spotty backup. 

Go find another guy who played more minutes than any other player on his team and had a value add of 0.00%.  And while you are at it - go find another guy in the last 20 years who played 975 minutes at the PG position, and made 0, 3pt shots for a year, or shot worse than 7% from 3pt line, and also shot no better than 43% from the FT Line.

Good luck.  Your personal bias and season long defense of Derrick really are causing you to look foolish at this point. 

[Lennys Tap]

You have no idea, nor do I or anyone else, what Wojo's depth chart is going to look like. I can guarentee that a bigger % would rather have Dawson getting minutes than Derrick next year. Everyone wants Marquette to do well, most just realize Dawson would help more than Derrick.

OK, you're right. I have no idea what Wojo's depth chart is going to look like next season. You have come to the realization that playing Dawson more than Derrick will help us win games next season, as have most here. I'm sure our new coach will agree - honestly, the odds would be astronomical against Marquette paying millions to back to back coaches dumb enough to not see something so obvious. To that end I'll give you the chance to make some easy money. 500 says dumbbell Wojo plays Derrick more minutes than Dawson in the coming season. I know my only chance of winning is if Wojo is brain dead, throwing games or a combination of both but I'm a generous guy who loves a longshot. Do we have a wager?

Ners - I'll give you the same opportunity.

[Lennys Tap]

Lenny - Let it go man.  Did you not just take note that Value Added just awarded Derrick and Dawson both  a Value Add of 0.00%  Yet, one guy was the max minute getter on the team..the other..spotty backup. 

I agree that both added 0.00% offensively (isn't that what Value Added measures?). Defensively the two players were not even close and that's why Derrick played and John sat.

[g0lden3agle]

I agree that both added 0.00% offensively (isn't that what Value Added measures?). Defensively the two players were not even close and that's why Derrick played and John sat.

Value added basketball is for both sides of the court:

http://www.valueaddbasketball.com/

[NersEllenson]

I agree that both added 0.00% offensively (isn't that what Value Added measures?). Defensively the two players were not even close and that's why Derrick played and John sat.

What part of the Paint Touches articles and Season Reviews on Dawson and Derrick did you not read?  Derrick was team's best defender measured on Point Per Possession Yielded, Dawson was the 3rd best on team in same category..just a shade behind Derrick...so...in reality they were pretty close.  Dawson sat, because Buzz had a loyalty to Derrick, had a good belief things were coming to an end for him at MU, had little interest in developing the freshman...and played the guys he had the longest term relationships with the most.

[NersEllenson]

OK, you're right. I have no idea what Wojo's depth chart is going to look like next season. You have come to the realization that playing Dawson more than Derrick will help us win games next season, as have most here. I'm sure our new coach will agree - honestly, the odds would be astronomical against Marquette paying millions to back to back coaches dumb enough to not see something so obvious. To that end I'll give you the chance to make some easy money. 500 says dumbbell Wojo plays Derrick more minutes than Dawson in the coming season. I know my only chance of winning is if Wojo is brain dead, throwing games or a combination of both but I'm a generous guy who loves a longshot. Do we have a wager?

Ners - I'll give you the same opportunity.

I'll take your wager...Dawson will play more minutes than Derrick next season...as he can at least back up two positions - PG and Shooting Guard.  Derrick's only chance for minutes would be backup PG...and he will probably get some there if nothing more out of being a seasoned veteran, senior, and high character guy...but it won't be for more than 7-10 minutes per game max. 

There's basically Mayo, JJJ, Duane, Dawson fighting for minutes at the 2 and pretty sure Wojo will roll with a 3 guard lineup all season long - Carlino and Mayo being locks....the 3rd starting guard role will be a battle between JJJ, Dawson, Duane.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I'll take your wager...Dawson will play more minutes than Derrick next season...as he can at least back up two positions - PG and Shooting Guard.  Derrick's only chance for minutes would be backup PG...and he will probably get some there if nothing more out of being a seasoned veteran, senior, and high character guy...but it won't be for more than 7-10 minutes per game max. 

There's basically Mayo, JJJ, Duane, Dawson fighting for minutes at the 2 and pretty sure Wojo will roll with a 3 guard lineup all season long - Carlino and Mayo being locks....the 3rd starting guard role will be a battle between JJJ, Dawson, Duane.

A gentleman's agreement.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

OK, you're right. I have no idea what Wojo's depth chart is going to look like next season. You have come to the realization that playing Dawson more than Derrick will help us win games next season, as have most here. I'm sure our new coach will agree - honestly, the odds would be astronomical against Marquette paying millions to back to back coaches dumb enough to not see something so obvious. To that end I'll give you the chance to make some easy money. 500 says dumbbell Wojo plays Derrick more minutes than Dawson in the coming season. I know my only chance of winning is if Wojo is brain dead, throwing games or a combination of both but I'm a generous guy who loves a longshot. Do we have a wager?

Ners - I'll give you the same opportunity.

NICE! Way to go Lenny. I like this.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I can guarentee that a bigger % would rather have Dawson getting minutes than Derrick next year. Everyone wants Marquette to do well, most just realize Dawson would help more than Derrick.

Are you sure about that? Right now, 63.1% of posters think Derrick will be getting between 9-30 minutes a game. Let's assume that the average of these 63.1% thinks Derrick will get 15 minutes a game (much closer to 9 than 30). Let's also assume that Dawson can only play the one and the two. That leaves 25 minutes at the one and 40 minutes at the two. In order for you to be right, Dawson would have to get 16/65 of the remaining minutes. To do that he would have to beat out Carlino, JJJ, Duane, Mayo, and Cohen for those 16 minutes. I don't know if most posters would assume that.

Honestly this is a pointless exercise. The main point is that a bad starting PG does not necessarily make a bad backup PG. Just like a good backup PG does not necessarily make a good stating PG. Derrick was quite popular when he was Cadougan's backup. I think if he returns to that role he will be overall better. He will also be met with less scorn

[Lennys Tap]

I'll take your wager...Dawson will play more minutes than Derrick next season...as he can at least back up two positions - PG and Shooting Guard.  Derrick's only chance for minutes would be backup PG...and he will probably get some there if nothing more out of being a seasoned veteran, senior, and high character guy...but it won't be for more than 7-10 minutes per game max. 

There's basically Mayo, JJJ, Duane, Dawson fighting for minutes at the 2 and pretty sure Wojo will roll with a 3 guard lineup all season long - Carlino and Mayo being locks....the 3rd starting guard role will be a battle between JJJ, Dawson, Duane.

You're on, Ners, - still awaiting Wojo's response.