New Stadium Imminent?

[akmarq]

Did you really just play the "almost all credible research" card?

I get where you're coming from so I'll link what I understand to be the most authoritative academic paper on the matter.
<http://www.csus.edu/indiv/h/howellj/econ145_s2009/Assignments/SportsStadiumFunding.pdf>

I'll then add that a basketball message board isn't the best place to sum up complex economic research articles, nor do I have enough desire to convince anonymous people on the internet that I'm willing to invest time in summarizing said research. Those that are truly interested in hearing some informed opinions on this will find the articles themselves and all others wouldn't read them even if I posted them.

I don't think I should have to invest much effort in defending a consensus that most haven't bothered to learn about.

[mu03eng]

Here's an idea.  I'm generally in the no public financing and no arena has any kind of economic impact worth a damn.  However, there is one huge gap Milwaukee has that has lingered for years that you just might be able get solved in conjunction with the Bucks issue.

We have a convention center that doesn't see a lot of convention traffic.  One it's not big enough and two we didn't have the hotel space to support a larger convention.  Especially in the summer(non-Bucks/MU conveniently) there are a lot of meetings/conventions that would love to use Milwaukee.  The hotel situation is getting better and we should have enough downtown/near downtown inventory by the time my plan would take place.

So here's what you do, create a joint building for convention center and arena.  Conventions that need a ton of space can use the arena if it's not in use, it reduces the footprint on the city, ties in with the existing infrastructure and potentially opens up additional revenue streams by bringing in conventions that weren't coming previously.

Just a thought.

[GOO]

Who is spending a half a billion?  They need $200 million more than what private individuals are already spending.  Those individuals aren't giving their money to the city to spend as they see fit, they are spending it for a new arena.  

The public is on the hook for about $200 million and that is without additional contributions by other private enterprises.

There is also no economic impact of city beautification, parks, etc. but they sure make cities better.  

Thank you Marquette_g. For or against, the argument should be about taxpayers spending 150M to 200M with a 200M gift and 50 to 100M in other donations/naming rights.
Stop dropping "half a billion" as it isn't tax payers half a billion.  
I was against it, but, when one looks at the amount of public involvement, if true, I feel Milwaukee would be making a hugh mistake not to do this deal.  Forward thinking is taking the offer, in my opinion if these number hold up.


Agree to disagree, but let's use the number we think are correct.  If it is/was 500M from the taxpayers, I'm against it as well and it aint happening. But that is not what is being discussed.

And yes, we spend for parks, the arts, museums, etc... and we should to a point. That is the type of stuff that makes cities work and part of the reason people want to live in cities versus a small town in the middle of no where. 

[akmarq]

And yes, we spend for parks, the arts, museums, etc... and we should to a point. That is the type of stuff that makes cities work and part of the reason people want to live in cities versus a small town in the middle of no where. 

In agreement with your sentiment of being honest in our facts:
Parks: Public good
Arts: Public good/non-profit
Museums: Public good/non-profit

NBA Team/Arena: privately owned, for-profit company.

I'm just saying let's not equate two fundamentally different things.

[akmarq]

Here's an idea.  I'm generally in the no public financing and no arena has any kind of economic impact worth a damn.  However, there is one huge gap Milwaukee has that has lingered for years that you just might be able get solved in conjunction with the Bucks issue.

We have a convention center that doesn't see a lot of convention traffic.  One it's not big enough and two we didn't have the hotel space to support a larger convention.  Especially in the summer(non-Bucks/MU conveniently) there are a lot of meetings/conventions that would love to use Milwaukee.  The hotel situation is getting better and we should have enough downtown/near downtown inventory by the time my plan would take place.

So here's what you do, create a joint building for convention center and arena.  Conventions that need a ton of space can use the arena if it's not in use, it reduces the footprint on the city, ties in with the existing infrastructure and potentially opens up additional revenue streams by bringing in conventions that weren't coming previously.

Just a thought.

Depending on cost, this could be a great idea. Not sure what it does to the Frontier Airlines center but that's a sunk cost that isn't working. MKE needs to find NEW ways to bring people to the city that aren't contingent on the scouting abilities of the Bucks front office. While the Bucks aren't the only draw to the new arena (MU/concerts/shows), they are the one that needs to be successful to make it work. It's easy to look at OKC and say 'look it works!' but I'd rather not pin my investment hopes on finding another Kevin Durrant.

Adding a convention center would be a great idea that - let's face it - isn't likely to happen.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Here's an idea.  I'm generally in the no public financing and no arena has any kind of economic impact worth a damn.  However, there is one huge gap Milwaukee has that has lingered for years that you just might be able get solved in conjunction with the Bucks issue.

We have a convention center that doesn't see a lot of convention traffic.  One it's not big enough and two we didn't have the hotel space to support a larger convention.  Especially in the summer(non-Bucks/MU conveniently) there are a lot of meetings/conventions that would love to use Milwaukee.  The hotel situation is getting better and we should have enough downtown/near downtown inventory by the time my plan would take place.

So here's what you do, create a joint building for convention center and arena.  Conventions that need a ton of space can use the arena if it's not in use, it reduces the footprint on the city, ties in with the existing infrastructure and potentially opens up additional revenue streams by bringing in conventions that weren't coming previously.

Just a thought.

Now that's a pretty good idea.

I'd also add that if there was someway to include/revitalize/renew Grand Ave in that plan, then you'd have something.

Now, I'm not saying turning Grand Ave. into Bayshore because that is a losing proposition. But, maybe Milwaukee could do an innovative start-up/incubator program with office spaces available at Grand Ave. They already do some of this, but maybe they could really pump it up and add some real funding and bring something unique back to downtown.

Put it this way: The Bucks can't afford to sign top level free agents, right? Build through the draft, right?

Well, maybe Milwaukee should start investing in incubation opportunities to try to grow jobs and companies vs recruiting them to come downtown (ie Kohl's, Manpower, etc.). Maybe you could grow and develop some innovative young talent.

Just some random thoughts about how to spend tax dollars...
 

[mu03eng]

Now that's a pretty good idea.

I'd also add that if there was someway to include/revitalize/renew Grand Ave in that plan, then you'd have something.

Now, I'm not saying turning Grand Ave. into Bayshore because that is a losing proposition. But, maybe Milwaukee could do an innovative start-up/incubator program with office spaces available at Grand Ave. They already do some of this, but maybe they could really pump it up and add some real funding and bring something unique back to downtown.

Put it this way: The Bucks can't afford to sign top level free agents, right? Build through the draft, right?

Well, maybe Milwaukee should start investing in incubation opportunities to try to grow jobs and companies vs recruiting them to come downtown (ie Kohl's, Manpower, etc.). Maybe you could grow and develop some innovative young talent.

Just some random thoughts about how to spend tax dollars...
 

One of the under appreciated parts of the gap that should be addressed as well.  Mitchell is a shell of it's former use.  Without an airline hub here, schedule and competition sucks.  However, increasing traffic with conventions as well as tourism might bring an airline in that would in turn improve schedule allowing more companies to relocated to Wisconsin as well.

Also, I LOVE the idea of an innovation center at the Grand Ave.  We've tried to do a couple of innovation/development meetings off site of our building and there is no where to do it in Milwaukee.  Actually ended up using the MU engineering building, which worked great but the masses don't have access to that.

[BCHoopster]

Look at it, there are only 30 some cities and really less than that, that have NBA teams, New York and LA have two.  You want to be Des Moines, Tulsa, Lexington or what would Oklahoma
City be without there team, a boring ghost town, did you see Toronto yesterday, the place was starving for a winner.  They had thousands outside the arena.  Bucks win, the whole country
knows about them, how about the PR for the city.  MU Basketball for sure is no longer the answer, a pro team does help.  The owners will give half or more, the city has done nothing downtown
to get excitement in our city, a pro franchise helps.  Sure it might not be the right economic answer for a city, but it keeps people talking about Milwaukee.  The Bucks can draw 15,000 fans a game or more if they can put a product on the floor, the next two years can help the franchise get back to the 80's, that were great NBA times in Milwaukee.  Build a new arena, an exciting fun
place to go and you might even get a free agent.  Ray Allen loved it here, Aaron Rodgers does now, a winner does help.  How else are we going to get the downtown exciting again?  

[WellsstreetWanderer]

In agreement with your sentiment of being honest in our facts:
Parks: Public good
Arts: Public good/non-profit
Museums: Public good/non-profit

NBA Team/Arena: privately owned, for-profit company.

I'm just saying let's not equate two fundamentally different things.

But do people in New York wear MOMA shirts or Knicks jerseys?  A  sports team is part of the local identity and it does draw outside money into the economy. People actually go to Green Bay on purpose don't they? I have friends who fly out to Lambeau several times a year to watch a game . Without  the Pack? Not so Much.

[Litehouse]

Here's an idea.  I'm generally in the no public financing and no arena has any kind of economic impact worth a damn.  However, there is one huge gap Milwaukee has that has lingered for years that you just might be able get solved in conjunction with the Bucks issue.

We have a convention center that doesn't see a lot of convention traffic.  One it's not big enough and two we didn't have the hotel space to support a larger convention.  Especially in the summer(non-Bucks/MU conveniently) there are a lot of meetings/conventions that would love to use Milwaukee.  The hotel situation is getting better and we should have enough downtown/near downtown inventory by the time my plan would take place.

So here's what you do, create a joint building for convention center and arena.  Conventions that need a ton of space can use the arena if it's not in use, it reduces the footprint on the city, ties in with the existing infrastructure and potentially opens up additional revenue streams by bringing in conventions that weren't coming previously.

Just a thought.

Just build the arena on the block of the MECCA and Milwaukee Theater and connect it to the convention center, and also have a connection to the Bradley Center across the street to provide even more space if necessary.  You could make a bridge over Kilbourn like the one over Wells.  That's what I was talking about in one of the posts above.  Then you could also use the Convention Center space for all kinds of hospitality options before games as well.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Here's an idea.  I'm generally in the no public financing and no arena has any kind of economic impact worth a damn.  However, there is one huge gap Milwaukee has that has lingered for years that you just might be able get solved in conjunction with the Bucks issue.

We have a convention center that doesn't see a lot of convention traffic.  One it's not big enough and two we didn't have the hotel space to support a larger convention.  Especially in the summer(non-Bucks/MU conveniently) there are a lot of meetings/conventions that would love to use Milwaukee.  The hotel situation is getting better and we should have enough downtown/near downtown inventory by the time my plan would take place.

So here's what you do, create a joint building for convention center and arena.  Conventions that need a ton of space can use the arena if it's not in use, it reduces the footprint on the city, ties in with the existing infrastructure and potentially opens up additional revenue streams by bringing in conventions that weren't coming previously.

Just a thought.

My question on this is what is the market for conventions to Milwaukee even if the space was there?  Cleveland, if I recall, has some big convention space due to the Space X center or whatever they call it.  I'd be curious if people are beating down their doors to have a convention there.  With the weather, etc, I guess I never saw Milwaukee on the top of my list for a convention and I love Milwaukee.  Not sure the average Joe gets real excited about it.

[ThatDude]

The NBA can buy the team back from the owners if no progress has been made on new arena. Is that good?

[Cooby Snacks]

The NBA can buy the team back from the owners if no progress has been made on new arena. Is that good?

It means the new owners have to work their asses off to get a new arena built or they lose the team they just bought. So for those who want the new owners to be loyal to Milwaukee, it's good.

On the other hand, it's the NBA being a bunch of punk bitches trying to hold a city ransom so it can make more money. That's bad.

[mu03eng]

My question on this is what is the market for conventions to Milwaukee even if the space was there?  Cleveland, if I recall, has some big convention space due to the Space X center or whatever they call it.  I'd be curious if people are beating down their doors to have a convention there.  With the weather, etc, I guess I never saw Milwaukee on the top of my list for a convention and I love Milwaukee.  Not sure the average Joe gets real excited about it.

I don't have any firm numbers but a surprising number of my friends are meeting planners and they talk about all the time how Milwaukee could be a big convention destination in the summer.  There are plenty of hotel, food, and entertainment spots, as well as the lake that the convention scene would love to take advantage of.  There could even be some side adventures into Chicago without having to deal with Chicago during the day.

Apparently the convention scene is relatively stale....nobody wants to keep going to Anahiem, Dallas/Houston, and Orlando.

Again the key is the Milwaukee summer, no one is going to come here in winter.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Here's an idea.  I'm generally in the no public financing and no arena has any kind of economic impact worth a damn.  However, there is one huge gap Milwaukee has that has lingered for years that you just might be able get solved in conjunction with the Bucks issue.

We have a convention center that doesn't see a lot of convention traffic.  One it's not big enough and two we didn't have the hotel space to support a larger convention.  Especially in the summer(non-Bucks/MU conveniently) there are a lot of meetings/conventions that would love to use Milwaukee.  The hotel situation is getting better and we should have enough downtown/near downtown inventory by the time my plan would take place.

So here's what you do, create a joint building for convention center and arena.  Conventions that need a ton of space can use the arena if it's not in use, it reduces the footprint on the city, ties in with the existing infrastructure and potentially opens up additional revenue streams by bringing in conventions that weren't coming previously.

Just a thought.

I like it. You can also use the convention center to better manage the students who arrive early for the games so its much more controlled chaos. Also wouldnt have to wait in the cold for games

[Tums Festival]

Pro sports teams are about civic pride and having a place be thought of as a "major league city" in the eyes of people with deep pockets. Yes, it's very difficult to track when economic impact teams have on a city unless you ask people to list every penny they spent that was motivated by having such teams in the area. Things with a narrow scope like a freshwater research facility or a tech center hardly gives the average person much of anything to relate to, unlike a pro sports franchise.

[Warhawk Warrior]

Marquette should propose the closing of Wisconsin Avenue and if the city approves it will create a separate fund raising for $25 million.  I bet we would find a lot of interest in naming the new Marquette University mall.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I don't have any firm numbers but a surprising number of my friends are meeting planners and they talk about all the time how Milwaukee could be a big convention destination in the summer.  There are plenty of hotel, food, and entertainment spots, as well as the lake that the convention scene would love to take advantage of.  There could even be some side adventures into Chicago without having to deal with Chicago during the day.

Apparently the convention scene is relatively stale....nobody wants to keep going to Anahiem, Dallas/Houston, and Orlando.

Again the key is the Milwaukee summer, no one is going to come here in winter.

Yeah, I could see that with the festivals, the lake, etc.  Wonder how much Summer traffic they would have to drive to make it work.

[79Warrior]

Yeah, I could see that with the festivals, the lake, etc.  Wonder how much Summer traffic they would have to drive to make it work.

Let's be honest. Milwaukee is not going to draw many conventions, no matter what time of year.

[GGGG]

Marquette should propose the closing of Wisconsin Avenue and if the city approves it will create a separate fund raising for $25 million.  I bet we would find a lot of interest in naming the new Marquette University mall.

I would guess that Marquette would rather use such donors to give to a new business building.

[Texas Western]

Hopefully this goes through. Marquette is a big beneficiary as we are counted on as a tenant, yet we don't have to bear the capital cost. The NBA has said this issue has to be solved by 2017 or they will force the owners to move the franchise to a city that has an arena that meets their requirements. I think the NBA is incredibly short sighted on things like this. But that is the reality. I think playing in an NBA arena is a plus for recruiting especially since it is so convenient to campus.

[mu_hilltopper]

The NBA better be saving up right about now ..

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/blog/2014/04/report-nba-could-buy-back-bucks-if-no-arena-deal.html

[Texas Western]

The NBA better be saving up right about now ..

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/blog/2014/04/report-nba-could-buy-back-bucks-if-no-arena-deal.html

The new owners will get the money privately. Financial markets are strong these days.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Pro sports teams are about civic pride and having a place be thought of as a "major league city" in the eyes of people with deep pockets. Yes, it's very difficult to track when economic impact teams have on a city unless you ask people to list every penny they spent that was motivated by having such teams in the area. Things with a narrow scope like a freshwater research facility or a tech center hardly gives the average person much of anything to relate to, unlike a pro sports franchise.

No doubt that pro sports bring more civic pride. Pro sports franchises are definitely good for a city.

However, they are clearly a private entity, and there is nothing really "wrong" with the current free facilities. The owners just want to make more profit.

If the city is going to hand out grants to private businesses, I'd like to see it in something that has some good potential for a big return years from now. Incubation of tech jobs seems like a good place to start. Freshwater science is interesting because it takes advantage of Milwaukee's most unique natural feature, and can't be easily replicated.

Give me a great economy with lots of well payed careers, and I'll show you a market that can support a NBA team.

I don't know that giving the Bucks a building is going to create a great economy and/or a market that can truly support a NBA franchise.

It's simply rearranging the deck chairs on a sinking ship. Fix the hole in the ship, then we'll worry about the deck chairs.

Milwaukee needs careers, not just "jobs".

[MUfan12]

I don't have any firm numbers but a surprising number of my friends are meeting planners and they talk about all the time how Milwaukee could be a big convention destination in the summer.  There are plenty of hotel, food, and entertainment spots, as well as the lake that the convention scene would love to take advantage of. 

If Indy can do it, Milwaukee should be able to. Unfortunately the Wisconsin Center District turns everything they touch to sh*t.