Is UConn a blue blood now?

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I have to admit I am not very familiar with their recruiting since Calhoun stepped down, but I can assure you they will have no trouble recruiting now.

From today's Hartford Courant on UConn recruiting.

http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-mens-basketball/hc-uconn-men-notebook-0408-20140407,0,6206021.story

Late Run Is A Recruiting Gold Mine For UConn

By DOM AMORE, darmore@courant.comThe Hartford Courant
1:23 a.m. EDT, April 8, 2014

ARLINGTON, Texas – Now that the Huskies have won the title, athletic director Warde Manuel plans to sit down with coach Kevin Ollie and talk about a new contract, which will include more years and dollars.

"Right now, I'm going to go to [the women's championship] game tomorrow," Manuel said. "I'm going to enjoy this. And then we're going to sit down. Kevin knows how I feel about him. He knows I have a love for him, I know he has a love for this university. And when we sit down, I think it's going to be a great conversation."

Ollie made $1.2 million base salary this season, the lowest among coaches in the Final Four, but he was only in his second year. He has four years to go, but he is likely to get a longer deal.

Recruiting

UConn's run to the championship game is bound to have a positive effect on several fronts, none more important than recruiting.

There is, after all, no better recruiting tool than March and April visibility.

"Recruiting comes naturally to me," coach Kevin Ollie said, "because I'm not making anything up."

Ollie was talking about his experiences and love for UConn, but when it comes to success on the court, he now has a proven track record to sell.

"People laughed at me when I said we were going all the way and now we're here," said Daniel Hamilton, a highly rated wing from Los Angeles who committed to UConn last May, via Twitter. "... This UConn team is special."

There was some worry that Hamilton would back out of his commitment to UConn, especially when he signed a financial aid agreement rather than a binding national letter of intent. But there seems little chance of that now. He will be playing in the Jordan Brand Classic in Brooklyn on April 28.

Guard Sam Cassell Jr., who is coming from junior college, has signed a letter of intent and has been tweeting out his excitement.

UConn could still look to improve its frontcourt. It has an oral commitment from 6-foot-8, 240 pound Rakim Lubin, but nothing firm yet.

From the Class of 2015, UConn has oral commitments from guards Prince Ali and Willie Jackson.

UConn will lose seniors Shabazz Napier, Niels Giffey, Tyler Olander and grad student Lasan Kromah, and with this run the possibility of Ryan Boatright or DeAndre Daniels moving on to the pros is possible but questionable. If the Huskies find themselves with scholarships available next year, this run makes them attractive to grad student transfers. The coaches love the experiences they've had with Kromah and R.J. Evans the past two years.

In any event, future UConn teams will be constructed much like the one – with an emphasis on guard play, ball pressure on defense, versatile big men, with Hamilton perhaps playing a role similar to Daniels.

Terrence Samuel, who found a niche late in the season, figures to play much more next year.

Same Lineups

UConn won seven of eight games after going with the lineup of Shabazz Napier, Ryan Boatright, DeAndre Daniels, Niels Giffey and Phil Nolan at the start of the American Athletic Conference tournament in Memphis on March 13. They stayed with it for the championship game. ... Kentucky started its usual five freshmen: James Young, Dakari Johnson, Julius Randle, Aaron and Andrew Harrison. ... Napier, who won the Bob Cousy Award as the nation's top point guard, picked up the trophy at a luncheon in downtown Dallas on Monday afternoon. Kemba Walker, who won the award in 2011, was expected at AT&T Stadium, along with many other former Huskies. Rip Hamilton tweeted that he was on his way. ... Former Kentucky player Rex Chapman, who was the analyst for the Kentucky team cast on TNT for the semifinal game, reported via Twitter that coach John Calipari is going to coach the Lakers next season. Chapman called it a "done deal." ... Mike Stuart, the referee who ejected Ollie from the game at Gampel Pavilion on Jan. 18, was part of the Final Four roster of officials but was not assigned to either UConn game. He worked Kentucky-Wisconsin. ... UConn and Kentucky, despite their storied histories, never met before 2006. UConn won three of four meetings going into the championship game.

Copyright © 2014, The Hartford Courant

[Galway Eagle]

When a schools done so well recently that were only arguing about their four titles and ignoring that they have another final four in that time span you know they're a blue blood.  Maybe not traditional blue blood in the way duke Kentucky unc are but definitely a blue blood in this era like Florida is or how in the 70s MU was.

[drewm88]

So here's my stab at that list:

Blue Bloods:
UCLA
Indiana
Kentucky
Kansas
North Carolina

Perennial Contenders (programs move in an out of this list) - I'd say 90% chance next year's NC comes from one of these schools:
UCONN
Kentucky
Kansas
North Carolina
Duke
Florida
Louisville
Michigan State

I like your list, although I'm not sure I agree about the zero movement of blue bloods. If so, when were they determined? That being said, I'd bump Duke up to the top and add Syracuse to the 2nd level.

[LAZER]

I like your list, although I'm not sure I agree about the zero movement of blue bloods. If so, when were they determined? That being said, I'd bump Duke up to the top and add Syracuse to the 2nd level.

Duke should be #1 on the top of blue bloods list.

[frozena pizza]

I like your list, although I'm not sure I agree about the zero movement of blue bloods. If so, when were they determined? That being said, I'd bump Duke up to the top and add Syracuse to the 2nd level.

Yeah, I would swap Indiana for Duke at least.  Syracuse is easily in the second group, which could probably include about 5-6 more teams.

[muwarrior69]

Depends on criteria.  Conference titles, NCAA titles, most wins, etc, etc.

If you want to go on NCAA titles, I'd revise your list

UCLA 11 titles
Kentucky 8
Indiana 5
North Carolina 5
Duke 4
UCONN 4
Kansas 3

I think UCONN's 4 titles are the most impressive as they had to win 6 games for the title. When UCLA won the majority of their titles they only had to play 4 games, and always playing in the West Regional only had really 2 competitive games to win. Having said that those were the days when it was UCLA and then everyone else and they did have great teams. I would add Louisville to that list with their 3 titles.

[Wojo'sMojo]

I like your list, although I'm not sure I agree about the zero movement of blue bloods. If so, when were they determined? That being said, I'd bump Duke up to the top and add Syracuse to the 2nd level.

I no longer think of Indiana as a blue blood. They haven't been all that relevant for a long time. They will occasionally throw in a good/great year every so often, but for the most part they are typically an average Big Ten team the past 20 years. They used to be a blue blood, but when does the designation end when you aren't at that level anymore?

[Atticus]

Yeah, I would swap Indiana for Duke at least.  Syracuse is easily in the second group, which could probably include about 5-6 more teams.

I'm trying to think of 5-6 more and I cant.

Syracuse - 5 FF's, 2x runners-up, 1 NC, 1902 all-time wins
Arizona    - 4 FF's, 1x runner-up, 1 NC, 1697 all-time wins

edit:

Georgetown - 5 FF's, 3x runners-up, 1 NC (only 1 FF appearance since 85)

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

I like your list, although I'm not sure I agree about the zero movement of blue bloods. If so, when were they determined? That being said, I'd bump Duke up to the top and add Syracuse to the 2nd level.

It's a fair debate... not to be a strict constructionist, but the definition of blue blood is pretty clear in all other forms... Bush & Kennedy are blue blood families.... Obama & Reagan aren't.

We can debate the relative success of each president, but Blue Blood has to do with their privilege, not their performance.

I guess I'd say a Kennedy would no longer be a "blue blood" once their name, fortune and connections ceased to give members of that family an advantage in accessing power? So similarly, UCLA would cease to be a Blue Blood when their brand is equivalent to a Wichita State or VCU, etc. Likely never.

Maybe we should refer to who are the true elites in basketball?

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

It's a fair debate... not to be a strict constructionist, but the definition of blue blood is pretty clear in all other forms... Bush & Kennedy are blue blood families.... Obama & Reagan aren't.

We can debate the relative success of each president, but Blue Blood has to do with their privilege, not their performance.

I guess I'd say a Kennedy would no longer be a "blue blood" once their name, fortune and connections ceased to give members of that family an advantage in accessing power? So similarly, UCLA would cease to be a Blue Blood when their brand is equivalent to a Wichita State or VCU, etc. Likely never.

Maybe we should refer to who are the true elites in basketball?

also building on this.... I don't know that the UCONN brand is near as strong as UCLA.... UCLA is still very respected, even if they had a decade of irrelevance.... I feel like UCONN wouldn't necessarily have that yet?

I think Duke is the closest of the non "true" blue bloods to having that serious cache with their name where they could survive a decade or two or irrelevance, etc.

[Rockmic87]

Potential Semi Elites - Need several more Elite 8 or better seasons
Marquette Warriors -
Wisconsin
Michigan
Georgetown
Villanova
VCU
Indiana

So you can be a semi-Elite program, yet be a stepping stone program as well? LOL

[Groin_pull]

Current elite tier 1:
(These schools will always remain at the top—no matter the coach. A recruit gets contacted by one of these schools and it's all over)
Kentucky
Kansas
Duke
North Carolina

Current elite tier 1a:
(These schools are close to tier 1, but are just a notch below)
UCLA
Florida
Michigan State
Arizona
Louisville
Syracuse
Ohio State
Indiana

[Rockmic87]

I disagree that UCONN is a bluebood.  Calhoun has recruited all of their national championship teams.  Since Ollie's taking over of the program, best UCONN has done is #30 in the recruiting rankings the last 2 years.  2014's class isn't even top 40 according to ESPN.com.  Last night, was the end of an era for UCONN.  UCONN is on a downward trajectory with their recruiting.  Had they recruited a top 20 class with Ollie, I would have put them in the elite group.  

Your adhere that UCONN was on probation the last 2 years, which is why their recruitment has been stinky?  Watch how UCONN's next 3 recruiting classes turn out with this NC they won last night.

[Lennys Tap]

It's a fair debate... not to be a strict constructionist, but the definition of blue blood is pretty clear in all other forms... Bush & Kennedy are blue blood families.... Obama & Reagan aren't.

We can debate the relative success of each president, but Blue Blood has to do with their privilege, not their performance.

I guess I'd say a Kennedy would no longer be a "blue blood" once their name, fortune and connections ceased to give members of that family an advantage in accessing power? So similarly, UCLA would cease to be a Blue Blood when their brand is equivalent to a Wichita State or VCU, etc. Likely never.

Maybe we should refer to who are the true elites in basketball?

If "blue blood" means championships in 1940, 1953, 1976, 1981 and 1987 but nothing in 27 years (Indiana) and "elite" means 8 championships in the last 24 years (Duke and UCONN) sign me up for "elite".

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'd take Blue blood or elite...we are neither.

[frozena pizza]

I'm trying to think of 5-6 more and I cant.

Syracuse - 5 FF's, 2x runners-up, 1 NC, 1902 all-time wins
Arizona    - 4 FF's, 1x runner-up, 1 NC, 1697 all-time wins

edit:

Georgetown - 5 FF's, 3x runners-up, 1 NC (only 1 FF appearance since 85)

You could definitely argue for Ohio State and Michigan based on those credentials.  After that it kind of depends on how you view historical success (maybe NC State, Cincinnati) versus more recent relevance (Wisconsin - there I said it.  Hard to argue with 7 sweet sixteens in the last 15 years).

[Groin_pull]

My personal criteria for being a true "elite" school: If MU is recruiting a player, and we hear _________ is also interested, it's all over. Time to move on to the next guy.

Those schools would be: Kansas, North Carolina, Duke and Kentucky.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

according to TAMU Eagle, they need to drop football so they can spend more on basketball. Makes sense....especially after tonight....and their last 15 years.

Never said need. Said that they should drop football and they would be able to spend more on basketball. Can you imagine what UConn could do if they spent Marquette levels of money on their bball program?

UConn basketball is profitable. UConn football is not...especially when you take into account the 6 women's sports that UConn has to sponsor in order to make room for football (Title IX).

Not sure why you took so much offense to that comment that you felt the need to bring it up in another thread

[Galway Eagle]

UCONN is a blue blood. And they will be trading one the "A"s for a "C" in their conference affiliation initials very soon, whether BC likes it or not...


The biggest loser in all of this will be Cincinnati, who will be stuck with Memphis in CUSA redux

I actually don't think it'll be that awful for Cinci and Memphis as they have Temple as well and SMU will be decent for as long as Larry Brown is still coaching.

[frozena pizza]

I actually don't think it'll be that awful for Cinci and Memphis as they have Temple as well and SMU will be decent for as long as Larry Brown is still coaching.

Temple that was 9-22 this year?  Don't forget they are adding Tulsa (sans Manning), Tulane and East Carolina next year.  I'm sure the champs are thrilled.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I'll take a stab at this:

Blue Bloods
North Carolina
UCLA
Kentucky
Duke
Kansas
Louisville
Indiana

2nd Tier (elite, nobility, whatever)
UConn
Syracuse
Michigan State
Arizona
Georgetown

I think UConn took a big step towards blue bloodedness, but I don't think they are there yet. The 4 championships is very impressive but I don't think you can call a program a blue blood if all their success has basically been in the past 15 years. Their is no history there. No nobility. They are Jay Gatsby, new money that is looked down upon by the affluent. And while I do think that Ollie is a helluva coach, he got lucky in this tournament and did it with Calhoun recruits. If he can keep them to another final 4 or a couple of elite 8s, I'll call them a blue blood.

And while I believe that it is hard to lose blue blood status.....Indiana is damn near close to doing it. The 5 titles keep them on the list for now.

FWIW, I think we are near the top of the next tier, along with teams like Villanova, Michigan, Florida, Ohio State, etc

[StillAWarrior]

Related question:  assuming continuation of inconsistent results, at what point does Indiana lose its blue blood/elite status?  How many years to they have to struggle before that happens?  It's been nearly 30 years since their last championship.  What's the expiration date on that?  I'll grant that five championship gives you a lot of leeway, but I would think that at some point they drop from the club.  Are they still a blue blood in 13 years when it's been 40 years since their last?  How about in 23 years when it's been 50?

[tower912]

How much longer is Crean there?     Sorry.    Too easy. 

[StillAWarrior]

How much longer is Crean there?     Sorry.    Too easy. 

Yeah, that was low hanging fruit.

But the question could be asked for other teams, too.  How long does a team have to be out of contention before it loses blue blood status?  There are some teams that were powers in the 40s, 50s and 60s, and we don't speak of them in hushed tones any longer (and, in fact, didn't view them that way when I first started paying attention to college basketball in the late 70s and early 80s).

[tower912]

Look at DePaul.   How long did it take them fall from the pinnacle they had in the 70's and 80's?