For the Anti-Martin people

[Silkk the Shaka]

As I posted in another thread, Stokes wasn't handed to him.  In fact, once Pearl was ousted, Stokes actually took UT off his list, but Martin was able to re-recruit him and convince him to come to UT.  Martin actually did a helluva job recruiting Stokes IMO.  Also, depending on which service you read Martin has had more than one 4*.  AJ Davis (son of former NBA player, Antonio Davis) was a 4* per some recruiting services if I'm not mistaken.

Hopefully he can repeat that feat with 'med Hill & Cohen

[Windyplayer]

Thanks for the input/feedback VolFan but you seem to be selling him pretty hard...gotta admit, that seems awfully suspicious.  Especially considering that some on the TN boards are hoping CM leaves.

Haha, yes, because we make the final decision.

[VolFan]

Thanks for the input/feedback VolFan but you seem to be selling him pretty hard...gotta admit, that seems awfully suspicious.  Especially considering that some on the TN boards are hoping CM leaves.

Lol.  I understand your concern.  I think I said it in another thread, if Martin leaves then I wouldn't be surprised or blame him after all the crap he dealt with from UT admin and fans.  I also won't lose any sleep as I think there are a number of equivalent, if not better, viable options out there (i.e. Howland, Marshall, Manning, etc.).  However, if he stays at UT, I am also fine with that too.  He is by all accounts a top notch guy from a character standpoint, which is a huge plus in his column, especially considering the character of a lot of coaches in this day and age.

[Pakuni]

Um...yeah...because he had three final fours in his last seven...

Actually two.
And at UCLA, where getting to final fours is slightly easier than at Missouri State.

As I've said, I'd be happy with Howland. But knocking Martin because he didn't get to the NCAAs in his first three years at Missouri State makes as much sense as knocking Howland for not getting to the NCAAs in his first three years at Northern Arizona.

Howland took over Pitt and three years later had them in the Sweet 16 = great coach!
Martin took over Tennessee and three years later had them in the Sweet 16 = terrible coach!

[VolFan]

Actually two.
And at UCLA, where getting to final fours is slightly easier than at Missouri State.

As I've said, I'd be happy with Howland. But knocking Martin because he didn't get to the NCAAs in his first three years at Missouri State makes as much sense as knocking Howland for not getting to the NCAAs in his first three years at Northern Arizona.

Howland took over Pitt and three years later had them in the Sweet 16 = great coach!
Martin took over Tennessee and three years later had them in the Sweet 16 = terrible coach!

Haha.  Good post!

[humanlung]

Actually two.
And at UCLA, where getting to final fours is slightly easier than at Missouri State.

As I've said, I'd be happy with Howland. But knocking Martin because he didn't get to the NCAAs in his first three years at Missouri State makes as much sense as knocking Howland for not getting to the NCAAs in his first three years at Northern Arizona.

Howland took over Pitt and three years later had them in the Sweet 16 = great coach!
Martin took over Tennessee and three years later had them in the Sweet 16 = terrible coach!

Fair point.  You're right on that.

[Tums Festival]

Martin's recruiting classes at UT by year. Star ratings from ESPN.
2011
Jarnell Stokes 5 stars ESPN100 #18
Josh Richardson 3 stars
Wesley Waspun 2 stars
Quinton Chievous 2 stars
Yemi Makanjuola 2 stars
Dwight Miller JC no rating

2012
Armani Moore 2 stars
Derek Reese 2 stars
D'Montre Edwards JC no rating

2013
Robert Hubbs 4 stars ESPN100 #29 (two spots below JJJ)
A. J. Davis 3 stars
Darius Thompson 3 stars
Rawane Ndiaye JC no rating

2014 (30th ranked class nationally)
Phil Cofer 4 stars
Larry Austin 3 stars
C. J. Turman 3 stars
Jordan Cornish 3 stars

Not exactly setting the world on fire for a team in a BCS conference.

[Hards Alumni]

Martin" recruiting classes at UT by year. Star ratings from ESPN.
2011
Jarnell Stokes 5 stars ESPN100 #18
Josh Richardson 3 stars
Wesley Waspun 2 stars
Quinton Chievous 2 stars
Yemi Makanjuola 2 stars
Dwight Miller JC no rating

2012
Armani Moore 2 stars
Derek Reese 2 stars
D'Montre Edwards JC no rating

2013
Robert Hubbs 4 stars ESPN100 #29 (two spots below JJJ)
A. J. Davis 3 stars
Darius Thompson 3 stars
Rawane Ndiaye JC no rating

2014 (30th ranked class nationally)
Phil Cofer 4 stars
Larry Austin 3 stars
C. J. Turman 3 stars
Jordan Cornish 3 stars

Not exactly setting the world on fire for a team in a BCS conference.

Recruiting with no resources.  Must be fun.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Martin's recruiting classes at UT by year. Star ratings from ESPN.
2011
Jarnell Stokes 5 stars ESPN100 #18
Josh Richardson 3 stars
Wesley Waspun 2 stars
Quinton Chievous 2 stars
Yemi Makanjuola 2 stars
Dwight Miller JC no rating

2012
Armani Moore 2 stars
Derek Reese 2 stars
D'Montre Edwards JC no rating

2013
Robert Hubbs 4 stars ESPN100 #29 (two spots below JJJ)
A. J. Davis 3 stars
Darius Thompson 3 stars
Rawane Ndiaye JC no rating

2014 (30th ranked class nationally)
Phil Cofer 4 stars
Larry Austin 3 stars
C. J. Turman 3 stars
Jordan Cornish 3 stars

Not exactly setting the world on fire for a team in a BCS conference.

Yeah....... but they were top 20 on Ken POM for offensive/defensive efficiency.  Remember.... that's all that matters according to Martin supporters.  Oh.....and that they got those two 5 star recruits.

[Tums Festival]

Recruiting with no resources.  Must be fun.

He had resources. Boosters cut them back when he wasn't producing good enough results on the recruiting front.

[Pakuni]

He had resources. Boosters cut them back when he wasn't producing good enough results on the recruiting front they woke up and discovered he wasn't Bruce Pearl.

FTFY.

And it's hard to imagine why he'd consider leaving.

[drTim]

Have we ever had a coach who played in the NBA? /reply

Did not Al McGuire spend a few years in the NBA?

[VolFan]

Recruiting with no resources.  Must be fun.

UT was number one last year in overall recruiting budget, if I'm not mistaken.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

UT was number one last year in overall recruiting budget, if I'm not mistaken.

So that includes Football.....  Which, if I'm not mistaken, they would be pouring all of their cash into that since they've not gone to a bowl game since 2010.  Isn't that almost sacrilegious in the SEC?  - to not be invited to a bowl game?

[brandx]

UT was number one last year in overall recruiting budget, if I'm not mistaken.

Football recruiting budget has nothing to do with MU. Cuonzo had no where near the budget that MU has.

I wouldn't be surprised if the women's team at UT had a bigger recruiting budget than the men.

See if you can find the men's basketball recruiting budget for us. Women's was over $400,000.

[GB Warrior]

As I said in another thread, the biggest misconception is that Martin did it mostly with Pearl's players.  There were only 2 holdovers this year from the Pearl era.  Also, Martin signed 2 5* recruits in 3 years at UT.  How many did Williams sign while at Marquette?

So what you're telling me is that his teams grossly underperform?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I know all this waiting, conjecture and anticipation can be rather consuming to loyal alums like us, Chicos; but please let it go for just awhile and enjoy your vacation.

Thanks dude...don't worry, I am.  It's snowing like a mother right now here in Tahoe.  Ran into a Marquette grad in his 60s I would guess on Sunday. He helped get my kids squared away for ski school and he saw I was wearing a MU hat.  He graduated many years ago, huge MU fan and I'm guessing he is semi-retired now and just living the ski bum life.  I believe he said his roommate in college became a Journal or Sentinel writer..Mcgowan???  Ring a bell with anyone?  This guy's name was Charlie.

All good....I can only enjoy vacation so much anyway with about 50 emails and a few texts from work that had to be answered, so it is what it is.  MU takes my mind off that craziness.

[NersEllenson]

1 in 6 years

Maybe two if you include JJJ - and what did Buzz do with JJJ?  Benched him all 2nd half of the season while playing a guy who made I think 4, 2 pt FG's for the whole year from shooting guard position..

Some real idiots showing up in this thread....Martin will do a really good job at MU.  And, as to who people think would be better that would take the job??  Howland?  That is arguable...and he might possibly do a better job...but recruiting to MU is not recruiting to UCLA, nor even Pitt in the old Big East.

Suspect players will connect a hell of a lot better with Martin than the 57 year old Howland.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Sure, it's a legit question. One that I am looking forward to you repeating for years.

If he's here in 6 years, likely I won't have to repeat it because he is doing well.  If I have to ask it every year, that would like mean he isn't doing well and perhaps we have a come to Jesus moment a few years from now and say "wait, we knew this guy had only 1 NCAA bid in 6 years and we hired him?"

I'm hoping for the former, not the latter.   Nevertheless, that's the risk when hiring this kind of guy.

I'll still take Gregg Marshall....what does he do, go to the NCAAs about 85% in his career? 

[jesmu84]

Maybe two if you include JJJ - and what did Buzz do with JJJ?  Benched him all 2nd half of the season while playing a guy who made I think 4, 2 pt FG's for the whole year from shooting guard position..

Some real idiots showing up in this thread....Martin will do a really good job at MU.  And, as to who people think would be better that would take the job??  Howland?  That is arguable...and he might possibly do a better job...but recruiting to MU is not recruiting to UCLA, nor even Pitt in the old Big East.

Suspect players will connect a hell of a lot better with Martin than the 57 year old Howland.

Can't say I agree with using this as a knock on Howland. Beilein and Fischer seem to be doing just fine at their ages.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Context is your friend.

At Missouri State, he took over a program that has one tourney appearance since 1992 and played in a conference that typically gets a couple of bids at best.
At Tennessee, he took over a team that had lost 7 of its top 10 players, including five of the top six scorers, from the prior season.
Neither situation was ripe for immediate success.

Would you prefer a coach who got one tourney appearance in his first seven seasons (Howland)?

Would I hire Howland to coach MU out of Northern Arizona?  No...for exactly that reason.  Yes, Martin took over a team that had no been to the NCAAs since 1992, but they did have 7 straight winning seasons until his first season in which they won 10 games.  I assume there were defections, no talent in the cupboard, etc..who knows.

I guess I'm just surprised that the success we have had, the money we are willing to pay, that we would get a guy with that kind of success in terms of getting to the tournament.  Was Tennessee about to go on probation and had only 1 player that played like 40 minutes or something?

Probably the thing that strikes me most is that if he leaves, UT fans know they can get someone as good or better.  Wouldn't that be a great feeling to have at MU right now....not such a risk.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

Actually two.
And at UCLA, where getting to final fours is slightly easier than at Missouri State.

As I've said, I'd be happy with Howland. But knocking Martin because he didn't get to the NCAAs in his first three years at Missouri State makes as much sense as knocking Howland for not getting to the NCAAs in his first three years at Northern Arizona.

Howland took over Pitt and three years later had them in the Sweet 16 = great coach!
Martin took over Tennessee and three years later had them in the Sweet 16 = terrible coach!

He (Howland) also finished back to back Big East regular season titles in the Big East, which is a better league back then the SEC).  The Sweet 16 stuff is a crap shoot.  Playing Mercer rather than Duke, helps.  Lots of luck involved.  Getting to the tournament is half the battle, after that its a crap shoot.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Recruiting with no resources.  Must be fun.

No resources?  Sure about that?

Also, recruiting as the big state school....must be fun.  Has some advantages.

[LAZER]

He (Howland) also finished back to back Big East regular season titles in the Big East, which is a better league back then the SEC).  The Sweet 16 stuff is a crap shoot.  Playing Mercer rather than Duke, helps.  Lots of luck involved.  Getting to the tournament is half the battle, after that its a crap shoot.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Howland.  We're not hearing his name much with MU or Wake and the WSU just filled their spot with Ernie Kent.  With the Cal job now opening up it'll be interesting to see the interest level there.

If Howland goes through this offseason without serious considersation there's probably something more to the story.

[Class71]

Well fellas let me tell you this then I'll be done with it: Like Barack is our PRESIDENT, CUONZO is our coach so we better respect the man!

We respect him, just not an SS quality coach or a Howland. Not even close.