For the Anti-Martin people

[WadeATKBurton]

As I said in another thread, the biggest misconception is that Martin did it mostly with Pearl's players.  There were only 2 holdovers this year from the Pearl era.  Also, Martin signed 2 5* recruits in 3 years at UT.  How many did Williams sign while at Marquette?

1 in 6 years

[ChicosBailBonds]

Sharpie this one in, people. This is the basic line Chicos will use for the next six years about Martin.

Done Deal.

Do you think it is a legitimate question to ask about a coach who has 1 NCAA bid in his 6 years and that was this year as a play-in?

Seems legit question to me.  Others may differ.

If anything, I'm giving the SID and others prep time when these questions come up.

[WadeATKBurton]

VolFan, in YOUR opinion do u think Martin is an upgrade over Brent?

[Hards Alumni]

Sharpie this one in, people. This is the basic line Chicos will use for the next six years about Martin.

Done Deal.

indeed.

[Henry Sugar]

Do you think it is a legitimate question to ask about a coach who has 1 NCAA bid in his 6 years and that was this year as a play-in?

Seems legit question to me.  Others may differ.

If anything, I'm giving the SID and others prep time when these questions come up.

Sure, it's a legit question. One that I am looking forward to you repeating for years.

[Pakuni]

Do you think it is a legitimate question to ask about a coach who has 1 NCAA bid in his 6 years and that was this year as a play-in?

Seems legit question to me.  Others may differ.

If anything, I'm giving the SID and others prep time when these questions come up.

Context is your friend.

At Missouri State, he took over a program that has one tourney appearance since 1992 and played in a conference that typically gets a couple of bids at best.
At Tennessee, he took over a team that had lost 7 of its top 10 players, including five of the top six scorers, from the prior season.
Neither situation was ripe for immediate success.

Would you prefer a coach who got one tourney appearance in his first seven seasons (Howland)?

[Litehouse]

Wow, you are really intrigued huh?

I gotta admit, I'm kinda warming up to Martin.

[VolFan]

VolFan, in YOUR opinion do u think Martin is an upgrade over Brent?

I don't know a lot about Williams, but I would say they are in the same tier.  I always thought Williams sideline antics were a little over the top and I was surprised to read he only got one 5* in 6 years, but he seemed to be an above-average X's and O's coach.  You will get no sideline antics with Martin, which some won't like probably, and he has often been accused of not being a great X's and O's coach and not good at making adjustments.  However, his players would run through a wall for him and he was a really good player at Purdue, so I think that carries a lot of credibility with 18-20 year-old kids.

[RyanConroy]

1 in 6 years

Brent Williams: 1 five-star recruit. 9 four-star recruits.

Cuonzo Martin: 2 five-star recruits (one handed to him). 1 four-star recruit.

Not a contest.

[WadeATKBurton]

I don't know a lot about Williams, but I would say they are in the same tier.  I always thought Williams sideline antics were a little over the top and I was surprised to read he only got one 5* in 6 years, but he seemed to be an above-average X's and O's coach.  You will get no sideline antics with Martin, which some won't like probably, and he has often been accused of not being a great X's and O's coach and not good at making adjustments.  However, his players would run through a wall for him and he was a really good player at Purdue, so I think that carries a lot of credibility with 18-20 year-old kids.

Im sorry but Brent and X's and O's dont go together

[WadeATKBurton]

Brent Williams: 1 five-star recruit. 9 four-star recruits.

Cuonzo Martin: 2 five-star recruits (one handed to him). 1 four-star recruit.

Not a contest.

How many of those 9 four stars panned out? Riiiight

[VolFan]

Im sorry but Brent and X's and O's dont go together

That was definitely an outsider's perspective of him.

[RyanConroy]

How many of those 9 four stars panned out? Riiiight

What's your point? We're talking recruiting, not player development. And in that department, there's not much of a comparison to be made between Brent and Cuonzo.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

That was definitely an outsider's perspective of him.

Coaches ranked Buzz in the top 15 for X's and O's. 

[VolFan]

Brent Williams: 1 five-star recruit. 9 four-star recruits.

Cuonzo Martin: 2 five-star recruits (one handed to him). 1 four-star recruit.

Not a contest.

As I posted in another thread, Stokes wasn't handed to him.  In fact, once Pearl was ousted, Stokes actually took UT off his list, but Martin was able to re-recruit him and convince him to come to UT.  Martin actually did a helluva job recruiting Stokes IMO.  Also, depending on which service you read Martin has had more than one 4*.  AJ Davis (son of former NBA player, Antonio Davis) was a 4* per some recruiting services if I'm not mistaken.

[RyanConroy]

As I posted in another thread, Stokes wasn't handed to him.  In fact, once Pearl was ousted, Stokes actually took UT off his list, but Martin was able to re-recruit him and convince him to come to UT.  Martin actually did a helluva job recruiting Stokes IMO.  Also, depending on which service you read Martin has had more than one 4*.  AJ Davis (son of former NBA player, Antonio Davis) was a 4* per some recruiting services if I'm not mistaken.

Thanks for the clarification. Gives me a bit more hope for this guy.

[VolFan]

What's your point? We're talking recruiting, not player development. And in that department, there's not much of a comparison to be made between Brent and Cuonzo.

I know nothing about Williams's development of players, but one of Martin's 5-stars (Stokes) has dramatically improved over 3 years and turned himself into an NBA player and a 4-star (Richardson) has turned into a shutdown defender and very good scorer.  Martin's other 5-star (Hubbs) had a shoulder injury this season and took a medical redshirt after playing a few games, so hard to know.  Martin's other player development is still up in the air.

[Pakuni]

Brent Williams: 1 five-star recruit. 9 four-star recruits.

Cuonzo Martin: 2 five-star recruits (one handed to him). 1 four-star recruit.

Not a contest.

You're completely wrong about Stokes. After Pearl was fired, Stokes removed Tennessee from his list. Martin had to recruit him from scratch.

Although, there was a time when Tennessee was close to pulling the coup and getting Stokes committed.
"I wasn't going to commit early, but I knew that's where I wanted to go," Stokes said of his love affair with Bruce Pearl's Vols. "I used to love the way he played, I watched every one of his games. I wanted to be a more physical Tobias Harris."
And then it happened. Chaos broke loose in Knoxville, Pearl got fired and the Vols vanished from Stokes' list. They would re-appear but it took a whim.
"I messed around and answered one of their calls," Stokes said. "At first I wasn't picking up after Bruce Pearl left. Then I talked to [new coach Cuonzo Martin] and he's got NBA experience. I was blown away by what he knew."
Tennessee, once dead in the water, was back in the mix.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/recruiting/basketball/mens/story/_/id/6912761/jarnell-stokes-earned-respect

[LAZER]

I know nothing about Williams's development of players, but one of Martin's 5-stars (Stokes) has dramatically improved over 3 years and turned himself into an NBA player and a 4-star (Richardson) has turned into a shutdown defender and very good scorer.  Martin's other 5-star (Hubbs) had a shoulder injury this season and took a medical redshirt after playing a few games, so hard to know.  Martin's other player development is still up in the air.

If Hubbs gets his medical redshirt and decided to follow Martin to MU, would he be eligble right away?

[WadeATKBurton]

What's your point? We're talking recruiting, not player development. And in that department, there's not much of a comparison to be made between Brent and Cuonzo.

You can be a Brent slurper if u want but a lot of those 4 stars Brent recruited transferred.  You cant recruit TOP talent and not play them! C'mon maaaaan

[VolFan]

You're completely wrong about Stokes. After Pearl was fired, Stokes removed Tennessee from his list. Martin had to recruit him from scratch.

Although, there was a time when Tennessee was close to pulling the coup and getting Stokes committed.
"I wasn't going to commit early, but I knew that's where I wanted to go," Stokes said of his love affair with Bruce Pearl's Vols. "I used to love the way he played, I watched every one of his games. I wanted to be a more physical Tobias Harris."
And then it happened. Chaos broke loose in Knoxville, Pearl got fired and the Vols vanished from Stokes' list. They would re-appear but it took a whim.
"I messed around and answered one of their calls," Stokes said. "At first I wasn't picking up after Bruce Pearl left. Then I talked to [new coach Cuonzo Martin] and he's got NBA experience. I was blown away by what he knew."
Tennessee, once dead in the water, was back in the mix.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/recruiting/basketball/mens/story/_/id/6912761/jarnell-stokes-earned-respect

This is exactly what I've been saying.  The kids really seem to respond to and respect Martin.  I think he will actually recruit well at Marquette and surprise a lot of you guys.

[VolFan]

If Hubbs gets his medical redshirt and decided to follow Martin to MU, would he be eligble right away?

I hope not!!! Lol.  We need him next year.  He's from TN for whatever that's worth.

[WadeATKBurton]

You're completely wrong about Stokes. After Pearl was fired, Stokes removed Tennessee from his list. Martin had to recruit him from scratch.

Although, there was a time when Tennessee was close to pulling the coup and getting Stokes committed.
"I wasn't going to commit early, but I knew that's where I wanted to go," Stokes said of his love affair with Bruce Pearl's Vols. "I used to love the way he played, I watched every one of his games. I wanted to be a more physical Tobias Harris."
And then it happened. Chaos broke loose in Knoxville, Pearl got fired and the Vols vanished from Stokes' list. They would re-appear but it took a whim.
"I messed around and answered one of their calls," Stokes said. "At first I wasn't picking up after Bruce Pearl left. Then I talked to [new coach Cuonzo Martin] and he's got NBA experience. I was blown away by what he knew."
Tennessee, once dead in the water, was back in the mix.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/recruiting/basketball/mens/story/_/id/6912761/jarnell-stokes-earned-respect

KEY WORD(S ): NBA EXPERIENCE

I told yall, kids respect that. That HELPS bring TOP talent to your program

[muarmy81]

Thanks for the input/feedback VolFan but you seem to be selling him pretty hard...gotta admit, that seems awfully suspicious.  Especially considering that some on the TN boards are hoping CM leaves.

[humanlung]

Context is your friend.

At Missouri State, he took over a program that has one tourney appearance since 1992 and played in a conference that typically gets a couple of bids at best.
At Tennessee, he took over a team that had lost 7 of its top 10 players, including five of the top six scorers, from the prior season.
Neither situation was ripe for immediate success.

Would you prefer a coach who got one tourney appearance in his first seven seasons (Howland)?

Um...yeah...because he had three final fours in his last seven...