MU meets with Martin

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

This is sounding like just a formality. Not a home run hire. More like a bloop single to left.

Please leave this site. You have been nothing but negative this entire week. Cant stand the negativity you and others bring. This past week on scoop have made CBB and Ners ramblings so insignificant.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Please leave this site. You have been nothing but negative this entire week. Cant stand the negativity you and others bring. This past week on scoop have made CBB and Ners ramblings so insignificant.

This is a message board, people have opinions.  Use ignore if need be

[Silkk the Shaka]

Copied from the UT board...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris4Vols22
Any coach is a gamble, but I doubt Martin would be considered a risky one by most.
You say he's up and on the rise.

He has a UT winning percentage of slightly over 60% for his three years at UT.

If we go back and include his time at M.S. his all time winning percentage is only 60.19% over 6 years of coaching. That's mediocre at best, and most fans aren't and won't be happy with a coach that wins slightly over half his games. IMO, That's not irrational as a fan base.

2008-2009 - 11–20 record
2009-2010- 24-12 record
2010-2011- 26-9 record
2011-2012- 19-15
2012-2013- 20-13
2013-2014- 24-13

124 wins/ 82 losses

One person chooses to look at one data point (60% overall), another chooses to look at two sets of three-year uptrends. I wouldn't say UT fans are the most sophisticated hoops fans out there...

[Tums Festival]

If we could retire one phrase here at Scoop, could I nominate "slurp"? Whenever someone likes someone, they are a 'slurper'. Please.

You ragged and bitched and moaned about Buzz all year, Ners. You got your wish. He's gone. So yeah, I'm more on board with one candidate than another. That guy is Howland.

And you are right - he got guys to go to UCLA, which apparently to you, isn't a big deal. Hell, anyone can get guys to go to UCLA. OK, fine, even if I believe that, let me ask you this -

You realize he coached at Pittsburgh and was incredibly successful there, right? So, what got players to go to Pittsburgh of all places? Their love of bridges? An awesome riverfront? The incredible blue-collarness of the town? The weather?

Picking and choosing one of his locations as proof that he's overrated is not what I'd call fair.

The people on this board that think if Howland were to be hired the expectation would be he should duplicate his success at UCLA crack me up. I'm more impressed with what he did at Pitt - two Big East tournament championships, two Sweet 16 tournament runs and the #9 rated recruiting class his final year there. Explain to me what in Cuonzo Martin's track record of wins/losses and recruiting success indicates he's going to be anywhere near that successful. Absolutely nothing.

[Niv Berkowitz]

The people on this board that think if Howland were to be hired the expectation would be he should duplicate his success at UCLA crack me up. I'm more impressed with what he did at Pitt - two Big East tournament championships, two Sweet 16 tournament runs and the #9 rated recruiting class his final year there. Explain to me what in Cuonzo Martin's track record of wins/losses and recruiting success indicates he's going to be anywhere near that successful. Absolutely nothing.

I don't think ANY sane fan here thinks MU would replicate what he did at UCLA. Not one person.

But...we'd have a better chance to be successful consistently. We'd have a chance to do things better with Howland than someone else. It's all about risk/reward.

Color me crazy, but I like my chances w/making a final four run better w/Howland than Cuonzo freakin' Martin. That's just me. But what do I know. I'm just a slurper with an opinion on a web board.

[MUDPT]

At some point I will list the last 12 years of data, but for the 2013-2014 season, here are the teams that ranked in the top 25 of both offensive and defensive efficiency:

Florida
Arizona
Louisville
Virginia
Wichita State
Tennessee
Villanova

That's it.  I looked at the data since 2003 and there were some coaches that people here don't like and outliers:  Bruce Weber, Bob McKillop.  But Brad Stevens, Tom Crean, Buzz Williams, Shaka Smart have never had a top 25 offense and defense in the same season.  To add to this point, no team has won an NCAA championship in the last 12 years without a top 25 offense or defense.  I don't know if Martin is the right hire, but we could do a whole lot worse with some of the preferred names on Scoop.

[Groin_pull]

Please leave this site. You have been nothing but negative this entire week. Cant stand the negativity you and others bring. This past week on scoop have made CBB and Ners ramblings so insignificant.

I'll say what I want, how I want. You want rah-rah, go to Dodds' board.

[Windyplayer]

At some point I will list the last 12 years of data, but for the 2013-2014 season, here are the teams that ranked in the top 25 of both offensive and defensive efficiency:

Florida
Arizona
Louisville
Virginia
Wichita State
Tennessee
Villanova

That's it.  I looked at the data since 2003 and there were some coaches that people here don't like and outliers:  Bruce Weber, Bob McKillop.  But Brad Stevens, Tom Crean, Buzz Williams, Shaka Smart have never had a top 25 offense and defense in the same season.  To add to this point, no team has won an NCAA championship in the last 12 years without a top 25 offense or defense.  I don't know if Martin is the right hire, but we could do a whole lot worse with some of the preferred names on Scoop.

What a great post. Couldn't agree any more with your sentiment.

[Litehouse]

Florida
Arizona
Louisville
Virginia
Wichita State
Tennessee
Villanova

To add to this point, no team has won an NCAA championship in the last 12 years without a top 25 offense or defense.

So Florida is the only team that can keep the streak alive.

[Silkk the Shaka]

At some point I will list the last 12 years of data, but for the 2013-2014 season, here are the teams that ranked in the top 25 of both offensive and defensive efficiency:

Florida
Arizona
Louisville
Virginia
Wichita State
Tennessee
Villanova

That's it.  I looked at the data since 2003 and there were some coaches that people here don't like and outliers:  Bruce Weber, Bob McKillop.  But Brad Stevens, Tom Crean, Buzz Williams, Shaka Smart have never had a top 25 offense and defense in the same season.  To add to this point, no team has won an NCAA championship in the last 12 years without a top 25 offense or defense.  I don't know if Martin is the right hire, but we could do a whole lot worse with some of the preferred names on Scoop.

One of the most appealing aspects of his candidacy to me. That and the fact that he has landed two 5* players in 3 years at Tennessee, has prior positive relationships with current players and recruits, and players seem to like playing for him.

[Tums Festival]

I don't think ANY sane fan here thinks MU would replicate what he did at UCLA. Not one person.

But...we'd have a better chance to be successful consistently. We'd have a chance to do things better with Howland than someone else. It's all about risk/reward.

Color me crazy, but I like my chances w/making a final four run better w/Howland than Cuonzo freakin' Martin. That's just me. But what do I know. I'm just a slurper with an opinion on a web board.

We definitely won't have to worry about any Final Fours under Martin...not even in the CBI.

[Silkk the Shaka]

So Florida is the only team that can keep the streak alive.

Might make sense to put some money on them before Saturday, huh?

[humanlung]

Howland WANTS to be here.  And he's already done the "big name" job and likely wants a program where he can end his career.

Martin wants OUT of Tennessee and the psycho fan base.  He MIGHT not care where (if he can bet a pay raise, too, hey, he'll take it...).

Which one do you think will stick around longer?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The people on this board that think if Howland were to be hired the expectation would be he should duplicate his success at UCLA crack me up. I'm more impressed with what he did at Pitt - two Big East tournament championships, two Sweet 16 tournament runs and the #9 rated recruiting class his final year there. Explain to me what in Cuonzo Martin's track record of wins/losses and recruiting success indicates he's going to be anywhere near that successful. Absolutely nothing.

You put someone from Tennessee in our program and their recruiting goes up. You put someone from UCLA in our program it goes down.

I'm not saying one will do better than the other but just pointing out the obvious.

Remember, this team brought us Tom Crean and Buzz Williams. Two candidates that had done a helluva lot less than either Wojo or Martin. Together they brought us 10 tournament appearances, 4 sweet 16s, 2 elite 8s, and 1 final four (BTW, the last 5 coaches before Crean combined for 9 appearances, 1 Sweet 16, 0 Elite 8s, and 0 Final Fours....over a 30 year period). They also elevated us from mid major status and gave us a seat with the big boys. They put what a dozen players in the NBA?

This team knows how to find coaching talent. I trust them to make the best hire.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm curious with the comments from UT fans that he left Missouri State in a mess.  No idea if it is true or what they are talking about.

Anyone?

[Groin_pull]

Howland WANTS to be here.  And he's already done the "big name" job and likely wants a program where he can end his career.

Martin wants OUT of Tennessee and the psycho fan base.  He MIGHT not care where (if he can bet a pay raise, too, hey, he'll take it...).

Which one do you think will stick around longer?

Sounds just like Brent to VT.

[Jet915]

I'm curious with the comments from UT fans that he left Missouri State in a mess.  No idea if it is true or what they are talking about.

Anyone?

Other then he left at the right time, not sure what "mess" means.  I don't recall any NCAA infractions or anything like that.  

[humanlung]

Sounds just like Brent to VT.

Is Curly playing the role of Howland or Martin in your comment?

[jt92]

What is going on here?  Am I missing something? Martin is not a coach that can bring us to the next level!  I'm not seeing it.  Crean and buzz moved us in a better direction than what we had prior and now we are risking our future with a guy who was about to be booted at ut? Come on people!  I'm perplexed. I know it's politically correct to be positive but this is shouting disaster and too many people aren't seeing it.  I'm sorry and I know I'm going to get killed for it but its my honest feeling and need to vent.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

What is going on here?  Am I missing something? Martin is not a coach that can bring us to the next level!  I'm not seeing it.  Crean and buzz moved us in a better direction than what we had prior and now we are risking our future with a guy who was about to be booted at ut? Come on people!  I'm perplexed. I know it's politically correct to be positive but this is shouting disaster and too many people aren't seeing it.  I'm sorry and I know I'm going to get killed for it but its my honest feeling and need to vent.

Respect the Process

[Windyplayer]

What is going on here?  Am I missing something? Martin is not a coach that can bring us to the next level!  I'm not seeing it.  Crean and buzz moved us in a better direction than what we had prior and now we are risking our future with a guy who was about to be booted at ut? Come on people!  I'm perplexed. I know it's politically correct to be positive but this is shouting disaster and too many people aren't seeing it.  I'm sorry and I know I'm going to get killed for it but its my honest feeling and need to vent.

Top 25 offense and defense efficiency this year and based on all accounts, he's an excellent recruiter. So yes, you are missing something. He's a young up and coming coach who has had some success early on at an atheltic department that only cares about football. I wouldn't be crushed by this hire. Not a home run, but a pretty good hire. Don't be a pawn to name recognition. Buzz was an anomaly with his early success, Martin has had more of a traditional ascension, and hopefully he uses his tribulations and successes as a springboard to sustained excellence at Marquette. Not a long shot by any means.

[chapman]

What is going on here?  Am I missing something? Martin is not a coach that can bring us to the next level!  I'm not seeing it.  Crean and buzz moved us in a better direction than what we had prior and now we are risking our future with a guy who was about to be booted at ut? Come on people!  I'm perplexed. I know it's politically correct to be positive but this is shouting disaster and too many people aren't seeing it.  I'm sorry and I know I'm going to get killed for it but its my honest feeling and need to vent.

Do I have multiple accounts?  Exactly my thinking.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Top 25 offense and defense efficiency this year and based on all accounts, he's an excellent recruiter. So yes, you are missing something. He's a young up and coming coach who has had some success early on at an atheltic department that only cares about football. I wouldn't be crushed by this hire. Not a home run, but a pretty good hire. Don't be a pawn to name recognition. Buzz was an anomaly with his early success, Martin has had more of a traditional ascension, and hopefully he uses his tribulations and successes as a springboard to sustained excellence at Marquette. Not a long shot by any means.

Word.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Top 25 offense and defense efficiency this year and based on all accounts, he's an excellent recruiter. So yes, you are missing something. He's a young up and coming coach who has had some success early on at an atheltic department that only cares about football. I wouldn't be crushed by this hire. Not a home run, but a pretty good hire. Don't be a pawn to name recognition. Buzz was an anomaly with his early success, Martin has had more of a traditional ascension, and hopefully he uses his tribulations and successes as a springboard to sustained excellence at Marquette. Not a long shot by any means.

Excellent Recruiter?  No......  He's never had a top 25 recruiting class.  

Top 25 Offensive and Defensive Efficiency - All the teams in this group have won over 30+ games.  Tennessee only won 24.  That's a huuuuuuuuge red flag.  You have a team that is elite, yet is not playing like an elite team.  If I'm not mistaken, I believe former football coach Ray Rhodes had a team that was top 10 in defense and offense in the league, but failed to make the playoffs....  the only coach in NFL history to do that.  Martin, would have been the first coach to be ranked top 20 in offense and defense to not make the tourney..... and FYI - they almost didn't!!!   That is scary!!!  

[melissasmooth]

Top 25 offense and defense efficiency this year and based on all accounts, he's an excellent recruiter. So yes, you are missing something. He's a young up and coming coach who has had some success early on at an atheltic department that only cares about football. I wouldn't be crushed by this hire. Not a home run, but a pretty good hire. Don't be a pawn to name recognition. Buzz was an anomaly with his early success, Martin has had more of a traditional ascension, and hopefully he uses his tribulations and successes as a springboard to sustained excellence at Marquette. Not a long shot by any means.

i think I'll stick with the missing the tournament five of six years as an indicator instead of one year with the top 25 offense and defense efficency ratings. Sounds like those baseball stat freaks that pull out the non-traditional stats to try and convince someone that a pitcher with a 13-9 record, no complete games and few starts longer than 7 innings should be the Cy Young winner.