Wojo and the "Assistant Route"

[MULS1999]

I've read some silly opinions and criticism over the past 10 days, but the blind backlash against possibly hiring an assistant takes the cake. 

Despite being in middle of a 15 year run of remarkable success, posters to this board are going to blow up Marquette's administration for ... following the same path they did twice before to bring about that success?

Steve Wojciechowski is 37 years old -- older than Shaka Smart -- and has been Associate Head Coach at (arguably) the best run program in America for six years.  He's also been around and coached the best players in the world for Team USA during that same period.  He's highly visible (important for when you have to recruit your own players for the first time), impeccably well-connected (ditto) and, by all accounts, a tireless worker.     

By contrast, Tom Crean and Buzz Williams were 33 and 34 years old, respectively, when they were handed the reins to our program.  While Crean had a similar pedigree to Wojo, he certainly wasn't as well-known nationally.  And Buzz had neither pedigree nor any sort of track record.  But MU bet on the projection of both, particularly their youthful energy and enthusiasm, and it paid great dividends.  I, for one, hope they do it again here.

When it comes to hiring, every candidate is unique.  Personally, I could care less about what Tommy Amaker or Quinn Snyder or Johnny Dawkins have or have not done as head coaches.  It's meaningless noise.  How would you like to be judged by a prospective employer based on how an officemate had performed in a similar position?  None of us have observed Wojciechowski in a professional setting or has the first clue as to how he would fare in the big chair. 

But do you know who does? 

Glenn Rivers.   You know, the guy who makes $7MM a year coaching basketball and whose son was recruited and coached by Wojo.  If he's good enough for Doc, he's good enough for me.  And if he happens to have so much success here that he's a shoe-in to replace Coach K in five years, as Marlo Stanfield once said, that "sound like one of them good problems." 

[Blackhat]

Was hoping after 15  years of elevated success (thank you Buzz and Crean)  we would be at a point where we could get a somewhat to fully established head guy to come here...especially with the financial investment MU puts into basketball.

[madtownwarrior]

Marquette not serious - they are sick or Keefe's haikus and wants to throw him a curveball.

Was hoping after 15  years of elevated success (thank you Buzz and Crean)  we would be at a point where we could get a somewhat to fully established head guy to come here...especially with the financial investment MU puts into basketball.

[ChicosBailBonds]

At this point, it would be nice to not have to roll so many eggs into the assistant basket. Sure, it has worked for MU twice....at some point it would be nice to be a big boy program and not need to constantly go down this path.

[Class71]

OK, so is this how you become a top flight program being the training ground for the real tier 1 teams? Either aim high or accept an also ran status. This year's coach selection decision will tell us where this school wants to go. Second tier or top tier. Do we have a plan to become a top tier school athletically and academically or is that plan just words?

[MULS1999]

Was hoping after 15  years of elevated success (thank you Buzz and Crean)  we would be at a point where we could get a somewhat to fully established head guy to come here...especially with the financial investment MU puts into basketball.

That's just perception though, right?  I understand the concern of posters to this board who worry about how the hire will reflect on the position of Marquette among top programs.  But I also think that allowing those concerns to influence the choice is a formula for suspect (and very "safe") decision-making.  

I don't care about winning the press conference, I want to win games.  And I am absolutely not convinced that Ben Howland would win more games in the next five years than Steve Wojciechowski.  Howland is a throwback.  A gruff, defensive-minded (and, yes, highly competent) technician.  In a lot of ways, he is similar to Scott Skiles in approach.  If you get the right kids and those kids buy-in completely, you can have great success with that style.  However, that is easier said than done.

Wojo comes from a much more modern system, which is analytically driven and at least attempts to play high-efficiency offensive basketball.  I think that, along with his age and familiarity with the front lines of recruiting, make him a solid bet to win as many (if not more) games than any of the other candidates being mentioned, Shaka included.  

[MuMark]

At this point, it would be nice to not have to roll so many eggs into the assistant basket. Sure, it has worked for MU twice....at some point it would be nice to be a big boy program and not need to constantly go down this path.

It's always a roll of the dice....even if you hire a midmajor coach like many high majors do.

Illinois ended up with Groce...only because Buzz and many others turned them down and Groce had a cinderella sweet 16 run with Ohio

Minnesota tried to get a bunch of HC's to move and ended up with Pitino's kid who was a head coach for all of 1 year

UCONN promoted Kevin Ollie who had been 2nd or 3rd assistant there for a couple of years.....

UW hired Bo from Milwaukee and Bennett from GB...neither were big boy hires at the time....Nova got Jay Wright from Hofstra

And Kansas.......did pretty well hiring Roy Williams away from Dean Smith's bench....

Bottom line...it is very hard to get high major coaches to jump ship unless they are unhappy or about to be fired(Tubby....Purnell.....Buzz) or you are an elite program.

[ChicosBailBonds]

It's always a roll of the dice....even if you hire a midmajor coach like many high majors do.

Illinois ended up with Groce...only because Buzz and many others turned them down and Groce had a cinderella sweet 16 run with Ohio

Minnesota tried to get a bunch of HC's to move and ended up with Pitino's kid who was a head coach for all of 1 year

UCONN promoted Kevin Ollie who had been 2nd or 3rd assistant there for a couple of years.....

UW hired Bo from Milwaukee and Bennett from GB...neither were big boy hires at the time....Nova got Jay Wright from Hofstra

And Kansas.......did pretty well hiring Roy Williams away from Dean Smith's bench....

Bottom line...it is very hard to get high major coaches to jump ship unless they are unhappy or about to be fired(Tubby....Purnell.....Buzz) or you are an elite program.

I don't necessarily disagree, but there are DI programs year in and year out that I would put MU in a higher position than those schools that pull it off are able to hire away a quality coach (at least perceived to be) from another program.

[MULS1999]

I don't necessarily disagree, but there are DI programs year in and year out that I would put MU in a higher position than those schools that pull it off are able to hire away a quality coach (at least perceived to be) from another program.

Such as ... ?

Last year, only UCLA (Alford) and Texas Tech (Tubby Smith) replaced their HCs with one that had prior power conference experience (or any sort of sustained "quality" success at a Top 50 program). 

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9099516/ncaa-division-coaching-changes-2013-14-season

In 2012-13, Larry Brown to SMU is the only hire that arguably meets that standard

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7647785/ncaa-division-coaching-changes-2012-13-season

In 2011-12, Maryland landed Mark Turgeon from A & M, so there's one.  Oklahoma poached Lon Kruger, who I like, from UNLV.  Missouri was able to hire Frank Haith from Miami, which was hardly a major coup.  And Georgia Tech got Brian Gregory from Dayton, though I don't think he would meet your standard. 

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6171342

In 2010-2011, there was really only Steve Lavin to St. John's that fits the profile (and, like Tubby and Larry Brown, that past success was pretty distant at the time).

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4980452

And in 2009-10, you have Cal to Kentucky and Tony Bennett trading Washington State for Virginia, as well as Sean Miller from (a then A-10) Xavier to Arizona.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4030914

In five years, you have a grand total of three coaches who left a job in power conference for another a different one.  Two more who left Mountain West jobs.  Miller leaving X and the A-10.  And then guys like Lavin, Brown and Calipari who returned to college coaching after some time away.  That's it. 

Unless you are a top 5 program, like North Carolina (Roy), Kansas (Self) or Indiana (Crean), the idea that your next coach is going to leave a job at which he recently made a final four or has had a dominant run is unrealistic.

The rest of the top 25 programs -- of which we are one -- do their homework and find the talent, whether from within or outside, before it blows up (like Billy Donovan at Florida, Jay Wright at Villanova, Shaka Smart at VCU, Jamie Dixon at Pitt, Kevin Ollie at UConn, and dozens of other examples).

[strobl2]

Looking at Wojo I think it is important to note the loyalty he has showed at Duke considering he has stayed as an assistant for 15 years and had multiple head coaching offers in the past. If he comes to MU I feel like it is a calculated move on his part and is a place that he feels is worthy of the same dedication and loyalty he has showcased at Duke. Just a thought when reading about him. I don't feel like MU needs to hire the biggest name out there. I would much rather have someone who comes from a great basketball "culture" like Duke, even if that means he is an assistant. Modeling our athletes and program off of them can't be a bad idea.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm talking about getting another head coach vs going to the assistant route again, like the thread title describes.

The examples you gave are some of the bigger one, but there are coaches that move from the mid majors to the take bigger jobs every year.  They've proven it at some level.  I'm just tired of going after assistants all the time.  It has worked out for us with the last two, but that doesn't mean you go to the well forever. 

The additional examples:

Enfield to USC
Frank Martin to South Carolina
Bruce Weber to K State
Tim Miles to Nebraska
Mike Anderson to Arkansas
Jim Larranaga to Miami
Mark Gottfried to NC State
Lon Kruger to Oklahoma
Cuonza Martin to Tennessee
Ed Cooley to Providence

You get the idea

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Q. How can you tell when a Polish Duke Assistant is having his period?

A. He's only wearing one sock.

[onepost]

And if he happens to have so much success here that he's a shoe-in to replace Coach K in five years, as Marlo Stanfield once said, that "sound like one of them good problems." 

+1. And the fact that you quoted The Wire immediately makes you one of my favorite posters on this board.

[MU82]

I'm talking about getting another head coach vs going to the assistant route again, like the thread title describes.

The examples you gave are some of the bigger one, but there are coaches that move from the mid majors to the take bigger jobs every year.  They've proven it at some level.  I'm just tired of going after assistants all the time.  It has worked out for us with the last two, but that doesn't mean you go to the well forever. 

The additional examples:

Enfield to USC
Frank Martin to South Carolina
Bruce Weber to K State
Tim Miles to Nebraska
Mike Anderson to Arkansas
Jim Larranaga to Miami
Mark Gottfried to NC State
Lon Kruger to Oklahoma
Cuonza Martin to Tennessee
Ed Cooley to Providence

You get the idea

So, if you do what all these schools did, you are a "big boy program," even if the track record for all of those arguably falls short (in many cases, considerably short) of what Marquette accomplished by hiring Crean and Buzz? Interesting.

Put me in the "hire the best guy and who cares what media mopes, Internet dweebs and other assorted yahoos think" camp.

If Wojo wows 'em in interviews and if all the background work tells Lovell, Cords, Wild and other important decision-makers that he's the right guy, I'm fine with him. Not that it should matter what I think, either!

[MUHoopsFan2]

Keep Wojo...and bring me Jeff Capel who is on the same bench of Coach K and he has coached before.

Give me Jeff Capel or Rod Strickland if he is ready...or bring in Wardle if you are going that route.

[CAGASS24]

perception and possible tenure of a hire are the worst criteria being repeated around here - you hire someone you think can run your program at a higher level and, in our case, have EARLY SUCCESS in order to sustain our program momentum - you think if we have a good first year or even a good first half of the year anyone will care about whether they were an assistant, or an 'impact hire.'

the term impact hire, to me, screams 'marketing' - im concerned with winning games, not the national headline when the fire is made

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Keep Wojo...and bring me Jeff Capel who is on the same bench of Coach K and he has coached before.

Give me Jeff Capel or Rod Strickland if he is ready...or bring in Wardle if you are going that route.

Jeff Capel definitely doesn't pass the sniff test

And if we brought in Strickland or Wardle, we would all be complaining and asking where Wojo is

[ChicosBailBonds]

So, if you do what all these schools did, you are a "big boy program," even if the track record for all of those arguably falls short (in many cases, considerably short) of what Marquette accomplished by hiring Crean and Buzz? Interesting.

Put me in the "hire the best guy and who cares what media mopes, Internet dweebs and other assorted yahoos think" camp.

If Wojo wows 'em in interviews and if all the background work tells Lovell, Cords, Wild and other important decision-makers that he's the right guy, I'm fine with him. Not that it should matter what I think, either!

Of course I want to hire the best guy available.  Who wouldn't.  Of course not every hire of an existing coach is going to work, just as every hire of an assistant isn't going to work.

I'm trying to be pragramtic about it.  When the program is in dire need of youth, energy, and the program is struggling for that, you may lean one way.  When the program has had success for a number of years,  you may lean another way.  There is no perfect example and never will be for this  job or any other job.  However, when you say go for the best guy let's just say the margin of error is going to be a little different with a guy that has zero head coaching experience vs one that has a number of years.  This is just common sense.

Doesn't mean the one with the experience will be better.  Maybe another way to look at it is this.  Programs that we want to be like, do they hire assistants or other head coaches?  Programs that we feel we are equal to, by and large, who do they hire....assistants or head coaches?

[MuMark]

By all accounts we could hire Weber or Howland...we certainly could hire Wardle....all head coaches.......if we don't hire them it won't because we aren't a "big boy program" it will be because the administration thinks the guy they got is better......

[ChicosBailBonds]

By all accounts we could hire Weber or Howland...we certainly could hire Wardle....all head coaches.......if we don't hire them it won't because we aren't a "big boy program" it will be because the administration thinks the guy they got is better......

One would hope that is the case, or why hire them.  Question will be, is it the better guy.  A question that will be impossible to answer no matter what happens.

I don't think my comments about acting like a big boy program change, however.  Most of the programs we aspire to be and many we think we are as good as, by and large, do not hire assistant coaches.  Sometimes you have to and need to.  Not the approach most take, for whatever reason but I think the reasons are common sense.

[MU82]

Of course I want to hire the best guy available.  Who wouldn't.  Of course not every hire of an existing coach is going to work, just as every hire of an assistant isn't going to work.

I'm trying to be pragramtic about it.  When the program is in dire need of youth, energy, and the program is struggling for that, you may lean one way.  When the program has had success for a number of years,  you may lean another way.  There is no perfect example and never will be for this  job or any other job.  However, when you say go for the best guy let's just say the margin of error is going to be a little different with a guy that has zero head coaching experience vs one that has a number of years.  This is just common sense.

Doesn't mean the one with the experience will be better.  Maybe another way to look at it is this.  Programs that we want to be like, do they hire assistants or other head coaches?  Programs that we feel we are equal to, by and large, who do they hire....assistants or head coaches?

Well, Kansas hired Roy Williams and Michigan State hired Izzo. I wouldn't mind duplicating that success.

Chicos, the thing is that you and I simply don't know which of the candidates will be the best coach. All we can do is trust the administration to do excellent interviews and thorough research, and then make a hire at least as good as Crean and Buzz. (And if we don't trust the administration? Well, tough ... we're stuck with them!)

As soon as you start worrying about being perceived as "big boy" enough for folks like me and you, it's a sign you might be motivated more by P.R. than by results on the court.

Go Warriors!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not motivated by PR at all.  Experience is a valuable asset in this world, whether it is a basketball coach or a product manager or a teacher.  Its not the end all be all, but it has a value.

That value, by and large, is why many programs hire proven coaches.  Yes, Michigan State hired Izzo and KU hired Roy Williams. 

Duke hired a head coach from Army, so did Indiana.  North Carolina hired Roy Williams, KU hired Bill Self from Illinois.  So on and so forth.  I think we can both concede there are examples on both sides that will prove and disprove the approach.  In my view, the situation can drive that type of hire. 

[Pakuni]

Well, Kansas hired Roy Williams and Michigan State hired Izzo. I wouldn't mind duplicating that success.

Chicos, the thing is that you and I simply don't know which of the candidates will be the best coach. All we can do is trust the administration to do excellent interviews and thorough research, and then make a hire at least as good as Crean and Buzz. (And if we don't trust the administration? Well, tough ... we're stuck with them!)

As soon as you start worrying about being perceived as "big boy" enough for folks like me and you, it's a sign you might be motivated more by P.R. than by results on the court.

Go Warriors!

This. So much this.

All this talk of landing a "big boy" and "impact hire" just proves what our friends to the west say about an MU inferiority complex. We're so wrapped up in not being seen as a stepping stone and validating the program that some seem more concerned about hiring the biggest name out there than finding the best fit for Marquette.

[NotAnAlum]

My BIG problem with this is that the track record for Duke assistances in their first stop taking over a program has not been great.  So for me considering this guy is a double risk.  First you have the assistant risk.  Second you have the Duke assistant track record risk.
Add to this this guy is rated as the 17th best assistant coach D1 recruiter .  Seventeen, who the heck are the other 16.  Duke is the absolute most sought after program in all of the NCAA.  They have their pick of whoever they want.  If this guys doesn't show up in the top 5 as recruiters I have absolutely no confidence that he could recruit at a normal program.  Sorry pass!

[Farley36]

To me it comes down to which guy is the hungriest?  Who has that unstoppable drive that they will succeed no matter what?  I think those kinds of guys are usually successful.  Crean and Buzz both had that and it worked in our favor.  Does a guy like Howland still have that or is he just ready to play it out ala Tubby Smith at Minnesota.   Does a guy like Martin have it?  Don't know but I saw in another thread someone describe him as a lazy recruiter ala Mike Deane.   My guess is Wojo has it.  He's been around success his whole career.  He's recruiting with the big dogs at his current job.  He's tired of being in Coach K's shadow and wants to build his own program.   Who doesn't want to outshine their parent or mentor?   If I were picking Wojo would be my guy.  I think the potential upside is worth the risk.