Frank Kaminsky

[🏀]

No pro scouts are drooling. None. Pro scouts drool over athleticism, size, speed and potential. Frank has one of those.

The Dirk comparison is ridiculous, it's not even close. Frank looks slow in the college game, the NBA game will completely blow him out of the water.

I'm sure everyone's drooling over seeing him match up against Davis, Howard, Noah, Hibbert and Horford. Oh wait, he's a NBA 4? Yeah, good luck against Love, Lebron, Aldridge, Carmelo, Blake, Serge or ZBo.

Anthony Davis would make him his bitch all day long.

If you think NBA scouts are drooling over Frank, you clearly don't watch the NBA.

[Tugg Speedman]

  Draft Express is usually a better prognosticator of these things...Kaminsky 22...I think Dekker is WAY overrated...good player...but don't see him being much of a pro...doesn't shoot it that well a la a Kyle Korver...pretty good athlete...but not elite athlete.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2015/

That's next years draft, not this year.  He's not listed this year.

Kaminsky is no. 22 and Dekker is no. 23

Not buying it

[Tugg Speedman]

Man you definitely sound like a hater. How about you give credit where credit is due. I too think Kaminskybis the best Center in college right now. May not have thr best ceiling, but he IS the best.

Kaminsky was the best college center in the two games last night so he is the best of them all.

Check back after the two games tonight are over.

Izzo is a genius

[Hards Alumni]

That's next years draft, not this year.  He's not listed this year.

Kaminsky is no. 22 and Dekker is no. 23

Not buying it

http://www.draftexpress.com/rankings/Top-100-Prospects/  

He is 48.  Btw I never said he was the #1 center prospect, nor did I say he was NBA material.  Only that he is the best college center.

[🏀]

He's a damn good college player, no argument there.

[chapman]

Here's to our next coach being able to oversee player development remotely like this.  Most of Brent's players regressed if anything.

[Tugg Speedman]

Here's to our next coach being able to oversee player development remotely like this.  Most of Brent's players regressed if anything.

Wes, Lazar, Jimmy, Crowder, DJO, Buycks, Lockett and Vander ... yeah nothing but regression in this list.

But all of them played more than 3 weeks ago.  Jamil disappointed in the last three weeks so every player under Brent regressed.

Izzo is a genius

[Pakuni]

Here's to our next coach being able to oversee player development remotely like this.  Most of Brent's players regressed if anything.

Yeah, Jimmy Butler, Jae Crowder, Dwight Buycks and DJO were totally expected to develop into NBA players when they arrived at Marquette.
But Bo is God because a 6-foot-11 guy who can shoot may be catching the eye of NBA scouts.

[Tugg Speedman]

http://www.draftexpress.com/rankings/Top-100-Prospects/  

He is 48.  Btw I never said he was the #1 center prospect, nor did I say he was NBA material.  Only that he is the best college center.

Huh?

I never said he was the best prospect, or even NBA material or even good at all but Derrick Wilson is the best PG in college basketball

[mattyv1908]

Wes, Lazar, Jimmy, Crowder, DJO, Buycks, Lockett and Vander ... yeah nothing but regression in this list.

But all of them played more than 3 weeks ago.  Jamil disappointed in the last three weeks so every player under Brent regressed.

Izzo is a genius

Matthews - senior who was Crean's recruit and did most of his developing after he left MU.
Hayward - junior who was Crean's recruit and really didn't improve his senior year so much as he was the first option instead of the fourth.
Lockett - senior transfer who was the player he was prior to transferring.

Crowder, Johnson-Odom and Buycks - JUCO transfers that all could play when they arrived but weren't recruited due to academics.

Jimmy Butler and Vander Blue are two you could give Buzz credit for and he should get credit for.

There's been far more cases of players with ability who never got close to tapping into it while being coached by Buzz than there are of players who have seen their skill sets improve exponentially.

[cheebs09]

Matthews - senior who was Crean's recruit and did most of his developing after he left MU.
Hayward - junior who was Crean's recruit and really didn't improve his senior year so much as he was the first option instead of the fourth.
Lockett - senior transfer who was the player he was prior to transferring.

Crowder, Johnson-Odom and Buycks - JUCO transfers that all could play when they arrived but weren't recruited due to academics.

Jimmy Butler and Vander Blue are two you could give Buzz credit for and he should get credit for.

There's been far more cases of players with ability who never got close to tapping into it while being coached by Buzz than there are of players who have seen their skill sets improve exponentially.

I'm pissed at Buzz and think his player development left a lot to be desired. But to not give him some credit for Matthews and Hayward is crazy. Matthews was a different player under Buzz and his senior day comments show Buzz had an effect on him. I wouldn't say Lazar was on a first round trajectory with Crean. Lazar lived on Buzz's trailing 3, and I thought he brought a lot out of him as a down low player.

[mattyv1908]

I'm pissed at Buzz and think his player development left a lot to be desired. But to not give him some credit for Matthews and Hayward is crazy. Matthews was a different player under Buzz and his senior day comments show Buzz had an effect on him. I wouldn't say Lazar was on a first round trajectory with Crean. Lazar lived on Buzz's trailing 3, and I thought he brought a lot out of him as a down low player.

I guess my point is that Buzz had a lot of success coaching players who ALREADY had a quality skill set, but I think Buzz struggled to consistently take 18-19 year old freshmen and develop them into high caliber players.

[WadeATKBurton]

No pro scouts are drooling. None. Pro scouts drool over athleticism, size, speed and potential. Frank has one of those.

The Dirk comparison is ridiculous, it's not even close. Frank looks slow in the college game, the NBA game will completely blow him out of the water.

I'm sure everyone's drooling over seeing him match up against Davis, Howard, Noah, Hibbert and Horford. Oh wait, he's a NBA 4? Yeah, good luck against Love, Lebron, Aldridge, Carmelo, Blake, Serge or ZBo.

Anthony Davis would make him his bitch all day long.

If you think NBA scouts are drooling over Frank, you clearly don't watch the NBA.

See Brad Miller

[Tugg Speedman]

I guess my point is that Buzz had a lot of success coaching players who ALREADY had a quality skill set, but I think Buzz struggled to consistently take 18-19 year old freshmen and develop them into high caliber players.

I guess my point is that Buzz Coach K had a lot of success coaching players who ALREADY had a quality skill set, but I think Buzz struggled to consistently take 18-19 year old freshmen and develop them into high caliber players.

I guess my point is that Buzz Bill Self had a lot of success coaching players who ALREADY had a quality skill set, but I think Buzz struggled to consistently take 18-19 year old freshmen and develop them into high caliber players.

I guess my point is that Buzz John Calipari had a lot of success coaching players who ALREADY had a quality skill set, but I think Buzz struggled to consistently take 18-19 year old freshmen and develop them into high caliber players.

I guess my point is that Buzz Roy Williams had a lot of success coaching players who ALREADY had a quality skill set, but I think Buzz struggled to consistently take 18-19 year old freshmen and develop them into high caliber players.

---

If you doubt the statements above, see the message boards of these schools.  That's all they talk about

[mattyv1908]

Well you've just named four coaches with National Championships who relied heavily on 18-19 year old freshmen and are comparing them to Buzz Williams.

Way to destroy your own argument, although it doesn't shock me.

[Pakuni]

See Brad Miller

NBA scouts weren't drooling over Brad Miller, though. He wasn't even drafted.
As I wrote earlier, Miller is probably Kaminsky's ceiling. And that's a very respectable ceiling.

[cheebs09]

I guess my point is that Buzz had a lot of success coaching players who ALREADY had a quality skill set, but I think Buzz struggled to consistently take 18-19 year old freshmen and develop them into high caliber players.

I will definitely agree with this. One reason Martin's recruiting doesn't totally scare me. I would be fine with a coach that gets in 3 stars, but has a system that allows them to play right away and develop. Granted, I don't know enough about Martin to know if he's this type of coach.

We've heard how Buzz has a complex defensive scheme and the main reason young guys don't play is due to their defense. Hence we have guys like  JuJuan that don't get any time when conference starts. Burton gets way less playing time than he deserves. Jamail Jones was a heralded recruit that didn't play much. Not all top 100 recruits pan out, but I can't imagine we've had this many players come in that don't know how to play defense and weren't smart enough to pick up the system.

Maybe Buzz started listening to the accolades and ended up outsmarting himself by making a scheme that is to complicated. Even our "good" defenders looked bad at times.

[Tugg Speedman]

Well you've just named four coaches with National Championships who relied heavily on 18-19 year old freshmen and are comparing them to Buzz Williams.

Way to destroy your own argument, although it doesn't shock me.

You said ...

There's been far more cases of players with ability who never got close to tapping into it while being coached by Buzz than there are of players who have seen their skill sets improve exponentially.

Fans of the four above say the same thing about their coaches.  They argue their coaches are just better recruiters and the talent they get so go good they "overcome" their coaching.

So Buzz is the same, just gets lesser recruits.

[WadeATKBurton]

NBA scouts weren't drooling over Brad Miller, though. He wasn't even drafted.
As I wrote earlier, Miller is probably Kaminsky's ceiling. And that's a very respectable ceiling.

Im talking skill set

[Pakuni]

I guess my point is that Buzz had a lot of success coaching players who ALREADY had a quality skill set, but I think Buzz struggled to consistently take 18-19 year old freshmen and develop them into high caliber players.

Oh, come on. Nobody, and I mean nobody, saw Crowder, Buycks, Hayward or Butler as future NBA players when they arrived at Marquette.
Vander is the lone exception.

Unless you're Duke, Kansas or Kentucky, and you're landing recruiting classes full of McDonald's AAs year in and year out, every coach struggles to consistently take 18-19 year old freshmen and develop them into high caliber players. Most recruits don't become impact players at the high D-1 level.

[Nevada233]

Oh, come on. Nobody, and I mean nobody, saw Crowder, Buycks, Hayward or Butler as future NBA players when they arrived at Marquette.
Vander is the lone exception.

Unless your Duke, Kansas or Kentucky, and you're landing recruiting classes full of McDonald's AAs year in and year out, every coach struggles to consistently take 18-19 year old freshmen and develop them into high caliber players. Most recruits don't become impact players at the high D-1 level.

Same will happen when players off this Marquette team are in the League (Burton, D. wilson duane NOT Derrick and Dawson) people would have never seen it coming.

[🏀]

Im talking skill set

Offensively, I agree. Said so last night, Miller could also defend.

[NersEllenson]

NBA scouts weren't drooling over Brad Miller, though. He wasn't even drafted.
As I wrote earlier, Miller is probably Kaminsky's ceiling. And that's a very respectable ceiling.

I do watch some NBA, although not nearly as close as college hoops.  Your analysis projecting to next level may be better than mine.  Perhaps saying drooling was too strong of word.  Kaminsky may struggle defending the stretch 4's as you point out, yet he poses some problems too.  I thought he held up really well against Kaleb T who is a physical presence and projected draft pick, as well as Aaron Gordon - a projected lottery pick THIS year at Number 8.  Granted he is just 18, and Kaminsky is 20...yet still a lot of development ahead for 20 year old kid - and the level of improvement Kaminsky made from sophomore to junior year has been incredible.

Brad Miller may be a good comparison - yet....I stand by my statement, that his game has a lot of similarities to Dirk...the footwork is incredible...something Brad Miller didn't have.  We'll see how it plays out, yet you've given me pause on my initial take that he could be lottery material next season..

[🏀]

I do watch some NBA, although not nearly as close as college hoops.  Your analysis projecting to next level may be better than mine.  Perhaps saying drooling was too strong of word.  Kaminsky may struggle defending the stretch 4's as you point out, yet he poses some problems too.  I thought he held up really well against Kaleb T who is a physical presence and projected draft pick, as well as Aaron Gordon - a projected lottery pick THIS year at Number 8.  Granted he is just 18, and Kaminsky is 20...yet still a lot of development ahead for 20 year old kid - and the level of improvement Kaminsky made from sophomore to junior year has been incredible.

Brad Miller may be a good comparison - yet....I stand by my statement, that his game has a lot of similarities to Dirk...the footwork is incredible...something Brad Miller didn't have.  We'll see how it plays out, yet you've given me pause on my initial take that he could be lottery material next season..

I'll agree with you now.

[mattyv1908]

Oh, come on. Nobody, and I mean nobody, saw Crowder, Buycks, Hayward or Butler as future NBA players when they arrived at Marquette.
Vander is the lone exception.

Unless you're Duke, Kansas or Kentucky, and you're landing recruiting classes full of McDonald's AAs year in and year out, every coach struggles to consistently take 18-19 year old freshmen and develop them into high caliber players. Most recruits don't become impact players at the high D-1 level.

Let's look at Buzz's recruits (who actually made it to opening day):

JUCO/transfers - Butler, Acker, Fulce, Crowder, Johnson-Odom, Buycks, J Wilson, Lockett, Thomas

HS recruits - Maymon, Mbao, Cadougan, Williams, Blue, Gardner, Jones, Smith, Anderson, Mayo, D Wilson, Ferguson, Taylor, Burton, Dawson, Johnson

Of Buzz's HS recruits, 37.5% transferred out of the program.

How can you honestly say that Buzz is a quality player developer when you look at the difference between the quality of His JUCO/transfers which featured one senior, four juniors and four sophomores compared to his 16 freshmen out of high school?

He benefited from guys with good basketball IQ with a couple of years of maturity that transferred into the program.  He did practically nothing in terms of developing kids out of high school and lost roughly 4 out of 10 to defections from the program.

Buzz has never been a good talent developer.