OT: NLRB Rules NU Football Can Unionize, College Sports Will Change Forever

[LegalEagle15]

Came up in our Pro Sports Law class today at the law school. This is definitely just the first step in a long, long process. Wouldn't be surprised if this ends up all the way in front of the SC. I think somebody pointed out that the total package given to a NU student athlete on a full ride is something like 200-250k over 4 years when you toss in room & board, books, tuition, fees. Getting paid isn't the only thing they can bargain for. Working hours and working conditions are also mandatory subjects to negotiation (granted this is if they are still deemed employees). It'll be interesting to follow along with the antitrust case filed against the NCAA last week. Donald Remy will be earning his paycheck that much is for sure.

[Tugg Speedman]

Initial demands of the CAPA (College Athletics Players Association) are not for pay ....

* Independent doctors for concussion test on each sidelines
* Health care insurance for all plays for life (no word on whether this includes former players)
* Free tuition for current and former players to get their degree for life

Should this happen, the next contract will include pay.

[muwarrior69]

Did you know this ...

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10677763/northwestern-wildcats-football-players-win-bid-unionize

"The NCAA invented the term student athlete to prevent the exact ruling that was made today. For 60 years, people have bought into their notion that they are students only. The reality is, players are employees and today's ruling confirms that. The players are one giant step closer to justice."

This may be true for football and basketball; not so much for all the other sports. Many kids may loose out on an education because the schools will no longer offer scholarships: paying big bucks to get the players for football and/or basketball; if they decide to have an athletic department at all.

[brandx]

Way to open up a can of worms!

this most likely will go to the supreme court.  With the amount that MU spend on Bball - I would think this would be an advantage.  Most football schools would throw money at the football programs.  Bball would be ignored, especially at SEC schools in favor of paying recruits to play football. 

If people think BCS conferences shook the landscape for bball programs, paying players would juggle it even more.  Of course, if they are paid already ..... how does that affect one's standing with the NBA?  Technically, players could be drafted while still in school as they are in the professional leagues of Europe.  My guess is that you would have a lot more players staying longer.   

No unions then This court ALWAYS rules for the rich/powerful side so there will be no unionizing. Book it.

[Benny B]

No unions then This court ALWAYS rules for the rich/powerful side so there will be no unionizing. Book it.

Last I checked, professional football players were in that rich/powerful category.  Where does that leave college players that may be bound for such SCOTUS favor someday?

[ChicosBailBonds]

So if they are employees, as they argue, then that $50,000 scholarship they are given can be taxed...correct?  Start paying up players. 

[Tugg Speedman]

So if they are employees, as they argue, then that $50,000 scholarship they are given can be taxed...correct?  Start paying up players.  

Don't schools lose their tax exempt status too?

That is the athletic department is a for profit venture and therefore pays taxes on the money it makes.

[StillAWarrior]

So if they are employees, as they argue, then that $50,000 scholarship they are given can be taxed...correct?  Start paying up players. 

I'm not sure, but I think certain aspects of it (maybe all) already are...to the parents.  Does anyone know if that's right.

In any event, your underlying point remains:  be careful what you ask for.  If this decision is upheld (which is far from certain), I think this will end very, very badly for a lot of college athletes.

[Benny B]

Don't schools lose their tax exempt status too?

That is the athletic department is a for profit venture and therefore pays taxes on the money it makes.

Not corporate taxes.... Employment taxes, i.e. FICA

[LegalEagle15]

If student athletes were paid they would lose the qualified exemption on scholarships and would pay taxes on income received from their "employment". In regards to parents, I know that certain contributions can be deducted from taxes, but there is a cap on it. So let's say Momma Warrior pays 10k towards her sons tuition, she could request a form from Marquette that allows her to deduct 3k (just an example I don't know the actual number) from her taxes. Now if student athletes were employees I have no idea how that would apply. Excellent question though I'll poke around and see what I can find out. Student-athletes as employees would create a messy, unworkable situation in college athletics under the current model.

[Hards Alumni]

If student athletes were paid they would lose the qualified exemption on scholarships and would pay taxes on income received from their "employment". In regards to parents, I know that certain contributions can be deducted from taxes, but there is a cap on it. So let's say Momma Warrior pays 10k towards her sons tuition, she could request a form from Marquette that allows her to deduct 3k (just an example I don't know the actual number) from her taxes. Now if student athletes were employees I have no idea how that would apply. Excellent question though I'll poke around and see what I can find out. Student-athletes as employees would create a messy, unworkable situation in college athletics under the current model.

I like you, bud.

[PBRme]

If student athletes were paid they would lose the qualified exemption on scholarships and would pay taxes on income received from their "employment". In regards to parents, I know that certain contributions can be deducted from taxes, but there is a cap on it. So let's say Momma Warrior pays 10k towards her sons tuition, she could request a form from Marquette that allows her to deduct 3k (just an example I don't know the actual number) from her taxes. Now if student athletes were employees I have no idea how that would apply. Excellent question though I'll poke around and see what I can find out. Student-athletes as employees would create a messy, unworkable situation in college athletics under the current model.

I think that depending on the value assigned to the scholarship is would also prevent most parents from continuing to call junior a deduction on their personal taxes.

[Sunbelt15]

If it results in players getting paid, or at least being able to work for more than $2000 per year, I'm with it.

[StillAWarrior]

If it results in players getting paid, or at least being able to work for more than $2000 per year, I'm with it.

Well then, I hope you have a crystal ball handy.  Because I think it's going to be pretty difficult to determine what the results of this will be.  It might result in athletes getting paid.  It also might result in athletes getting even less than they're getting now.  It also might result in the end of most college sports.  It's really hard to say at this point.

[LegalEagle15]

Most schools can't afford to pay student athletes more than what they already do. Something like 30 schools are operating their athletic departments at a profit, with a number of schools conveniently (including Marquette) operating at cost. The rest subsidize their athletic programs. Granted there are a whole host of factors to why schools are losing money on athletics (ballooning coaching contracts, massive construction projects, etc., etc.) but toss in an extra 3k a semester for "cost of attendance" for a school with 500 student athletes...that's 1.5 million dollars the school is going to have to come up with. Per semester. If somebody comes up with a workable model for increasing the compensation to student athletes I don't see an issue with giving them more money. They do a lot for the university and bring in money, students, and donors. So far I've yet to see such a model. This is going to drag out for a long, long time.

[JWags85]

Appropriate...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XEq6XYtMVU

[Guy Fieri's Dad]

Most schools can't afford to pay student athletes more than what they already do. Something like 30 schools are operating their athletic departments at a profit, with a number of schools conveniently (including Marquette) operating at cost. The rest subsidize their athletic programs. Granted there are a whole host of factors to why schools are losing money on athletics (ballooning coaching contracts, massive construction projects, etc., etc.) but toss in an extra 3k a semester for "cost of attendance" for a school with 500 student athletes...that's 1.5 million dollars the school is going to have to come up with. Per semester. If somebody comes up with a workable model for increasing the compensation to student athletes I don't see an issue with giving them more money. They do a lot for the university and bring in money, students, and donors. So far I've yet to see such a model. This is going to drag out for a long, long time.

I think what will happen will be a decrease in the number of sports offered at each sport i.e. non-revenue sports.

[LegalEagle15]

I think what will happen will be a decrease in the number of sports offered at each sport i.e. non-revenue sports.

Problem is then you run into a Title IX issue. You can only cut so many non revenue sports because you are going to need to offer an equal number of athletic opportunities to the opposing gender to balance out your 85 man football roster. Then again, revenue sports differ between each school. While Lacrosse doesn't bring in much revenue for Marquette, it might on the East Coast. So does Syracuse cut its football program or its lacrosse program? You hit the nail on the head though, all of this is being driven by revenue sports, especially men's basketball and football. In fact I'm pretty sure the only people that can unionize at NU are the scholarship football players. The walk-ons can't even be part of the union, but they will be subject to the unions bargained terms.

[Stronghold]

Initial demands of the CAPA (College Athletics Players Association) are not for pay ....

* Independent doctors for concussion test on each sidelines
* Health care insurance for all plays for life (no word on whether this includes former players)
* Free tuition for current and former players to get their degree for life

Should this happen, the next contract will include pay.

1. Think it's a great idea.
2. No way.  Only coverage while they are in school and maybe a couple years after
3.  Sure, for any undergraduate degree

[PBRme]

So will athletes be able to claim unemployment if they are Creaned?

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

So will athletes be able to claim unemployment if they are Creaned?

Don't forget "buzzed" either. 

[Tugg Speedman]

If student athletes were paid they would lose the qualified exemption on scholarships and would pay taxes on income received from their "employment". In regards to parents, I know that certain contributions can be deducted from taxes, but there is a cap on it. So let's say Momma Warrior pays 10k towards her sons tuition, she could request a form from Marquette that allows her to deduct 3k (just an example I don't know the actual number) from her taxes. Now if student athletes were employees I have no idea how that would apply. Excellent question though I'll poke around and see what I can find out. Student-athletes as employees would create a messy, unworkable situation in college athletics under the current model.

You mean like current system.

I'm for this not because I see unionization happening but because I see the NCAA as a giant clusterf**k right now this can/will force it to finally change.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think what will happen will be a decrease in the number of sports offered at each sport i.e. non-revenue sports.

A school like Marquette is already at the minimum to be Division I.  I don't disagree with you, but it means less opportunities for other kids, many of whom need that scholarship to be at a school.

[LegalEagle15]

You mean like current system.

I'm for this not because I see unionization happening but because I see the NCAA as a giant clusterf**k right now this can/will force it to finally change.

Correct. Student athletes as employees is untenable under the current system. Additionally, I haven't heard of a system in which it would work. Not to say one does not exist, but simply that one has not been presented. There are a lot of legal nuances that there aren't answers for yet.

[Tugg Speedman]

Correct. Student athletes as employees is untenable under the current system. Additionally, I haven't heard of a system in which it would work. Not to say one does not exist, but simply that one has not been presented. There are a lot of legal nuances that there aren't answers for yet.

LE15:

Now that the NLRB ruled football players employees, what is to stop the IRS from ruling ALL scholarships everywhere are taxable right now?  Does the NLRB ruling give the IRS that rationale to call them income?