Izzo "done chasing best players in the country"

[MUSF]

Interesting read from M. Rosenberg. Izzo addresses many topics that are hotly debated on Scoop.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20140314/tom-izzo-michigan-state-frustrations/?mobile=no

[MU82]

Thanks for the link.

I LOVED THIS! As much as I already respected Izzo for all he has accomplished and for the way he accomplished it, this made me respect him all the more.

(The writer, Mike Rosenberg, is also talented and presented this very well.)

I would much rather Buzz follow the Michigan State blueprint than the Kentucky-Duke-Kansas blueprint because it is far more realistic and, ultimately, satisfying.

I never look at Michigan State's fan boards, but if anybody there ever gets on Izzo's case (as I'm sure they do), they don't deserve him!

[tower912]

...players who want what they haven't earned, fans who have forgotten three weeks ago, let alone 3 years ago.....

[Tums Festival]

Thanks for the link.

I LOVED THIS! As much as I already respected Izzo for all he has accomplished and for the way he accomplished it, this made me respect him all the more.

(The writer, Mike Rosenberg, is also talented and presented this very well.)

I would much rather Buzz follow the Michigan State blueprint than the Kentucky-Duke-Kansas blueprint because it is far more realistic and, ultimately, satisfying.

I never look at Michigan State's fan boards, but if anybody there ever gets on Izzo's case (as I'm sure they do), they don't deserve him!

You're exactly right, and I think Buzz has followed the Michigan St. blueprint to a degree. I think his (Izzo's) team is fairly healthy now so it'll be interesting to see how they do against Michigan today and in the tournament.

[Tugg Speedman]

This part is 100.00% correct!

And for all the talk about Michigan State's injuries, an encouraging truth has emerged from this season: Top-10 recruits are not as important as they seemed. Look at the teams near the top of the college basketball polls. Wichita State, Virginia, even Florida and Syracuse and (Izzo might not like this, but it's true) Michigan -- are all thriving without top-five NBA draft choices.

Duke is really good with Parker, but not dominant. Kentucky's latest collection of talent is a dysfunctional, unwatchable mess. Kansas may have the top two picks in the draft in Andrew Wiggins and Joel Embiid, but even before Embiid got hurt, the Jayhawks were not an overwhelming team.

"It's funny," Izzo said. "People are worried about, 'You're going to lose two or three guys (after the season). Florida, their leading scorer averaged, I think, three points a game in his first year -- (Casey) Prather. (Patric) Young was a major disappointment. What did (Michigan's Caris) Levert average last year? Somebody steps up. The big kid from Wisconsin -- (Frank) Kaminsky. Those things happen."

Through all the injuries, the misery, the #Twitterproblems and the recruiting failures, Izzo has learned: A well-coached team with really good players can win the national title. Perhaps even his.





This is exactly what I was getting at with the Kentucky "one and done" thread

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=42504.0

Chasing and getting the "one and dones" is not what you think it is.  Keep getting top 50 guys and keep them working together as a team for three or four years.

[willie warrior]

Here we go again. We do not need top 10-20 players. Just need top 100 switchables. Out team this year was loaded with top 100's--how has that worked out?

[Tugg Speedman]

Here we go again. We do not need top 10-20 players. Just need top 100 switchables. Out team this year was loaded with top 100's--how has that worked out?

Pretty good the last eight years before this year.

[MUSF]

Here we go again. We do not need top 10-20 players. Just need top 100 switchables. Out team this year was loaded with top 100's--how has that worked out?

No, a team needs the right players. It doesn't really matter if they're top 10-20 or top 100. Our team this year was certainly missing the right mix of players, but that had nothing to do with their rating.

Now, don't misinterpret what I'm saying. A team still needs talent to win, but the right mix of top 100-200 recruits can be just as good as a team with a few top 20 players.

[rocket surgeon]

Thanks for the link.

I LOVED THIS! As much as I already respected Izzo for all he has accomplished and for the way he accomplished it, this made me respect him all the more.

(The writer, Mike Rosenberg, is also talented and presented this very well.)

I would much rather Buzz follow the Michigan State blueprint than the Kentucky-Duke-Kansas blueprint because it is far more realistic and, ultimately, satisfying.

I never look at Michigan State's fan boards, but if anybody there ever gets on Izzo's case (as I'm sure they do), they don't deserve him!

you don't think buzz follows the kentucky-duke-kansas blueprint, do you?  because, i don't think many other schools really can.  and duke,  but most basketball players good enough to do the one and done thing need the exposure, the dickie v's, the east coast time zone, and espn which is why i'm surprised ucla got looney.  any thoughts on why looney chose ucla over the others?  alford? the climate?  the girls?  all of the aforementioned?  as for izzo, that's how he got to where he is.  he takes a lot of raw talent and "coaches".  

[Tugg Speedman]

No, a team needs the right players. It doesn't really matter if they're top 10-20 or top 100. Our team this year was certainly missing the right mix of players, but that had nothing to do with their rating.

Now, don't misinterpret what I'm saying. A team still needs talent to win, but the right mix of top 100-200 recruits can be just as good as a team with a few top 20 players.

as good as a team with a few top 20 players ... that are "one or two and done" and more interested in creating highlighting than trying to win as a team.

[brandx]

Interesting read from M. Rosenberg. Izzo addresses many topics that are hotly debated on Scoop.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20140314/tom-izzo-michigan-state-frustrations/?mobile=no

One-and-done's have no investment in the team. Despite our experience this year, I'll take the good player for 4 years over the "great" player for one year.
The top one-and-done players this year are at Kansas, Duke, and Kentucky. No #1 seeds there (unless maybe Duke wins and Michigan loses today).

[keefe]

I never look at Michigan State's fan boards

Can you post using crayons? I wasn't aware they knew how to read and write...

[rocket surgeon]

One-and-done's have no investment in the team. Despite our experience this year, I'll take the good player for 4 years over the "great" player for one year.
The top one-and-done players this year are at Kansas, Duke, and Kentucky. No #1 seeds there (unless maybe Duke wins and Michigan loses today).

great point!  exhibit A= wichita state

[MU82]

great point!  exhibit A= wichita state

Yes, how many 5-stars do 2013 Final Four and 2014 unbeaten Wichita State have? How many 5-stars did Stevens use to get to back-to-back NCAA title games?

I want talent. There is all kinds of talent out there. Bryce Cotton is pretty freakin' talented, and nobody wanted the kid. Davante is pretty talented and wasn't exactly the most heavily recruited guy out there.

And so on and so on. We've had this discussion on too many boards. It's just nice to see a guy like Izzo endorse it. (But, remember, he says he still might go after one 1-and-done type per year!)

[Tugg Speedman]

One-and-done's have no investment in the team. Despite our experience this year, I'll take the good player for 4 years over the "great" player for one year.
The top one-and-done players this year are at Kansas, Duke, and Kentucky. No #1 seeds there (unless maybe Duke wins and Michigan loses today).

Duke lost, and lost how a one and done team would lose ... poor/embarrassing defense (no rotation at all, Parker guilty many times) and rushed ill-advised shot after shot.

[willie warrior]

Pretty good the last eight years before this year.

But not this year.

[MUSF]

But not this year.

Good point. Let's scrap what's worked for nearly a decade because it didn't work out this year.

What did Izzo say about fans who have forgotten three weeks ago?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yes, how many 5-stars do 2013 Final Four and 2014 unbeaten Wichita State have? How many 5-stars did Stevens use to get to back-to-back NCAA title games?

I want talent. There is all kinds of talent out there. Bryce Cotton is pretty freakin' talented, and nobody wanted the kid. Davante is pretty talented and wasn't exactly the most heavily recruited guy out there.

And so on and so on. We've had this discussion on too many boards. It's just nice to see a guy like Izzo endorse it. (But, remember, he says he still might go after one 1-and-done type per year!)

That's the key.  Butler had talent on those teams, two guys in the NBA to prove it, but they weren't prima donna 5 star types that have been coddled since the age of 12.  Like the siren song, however, it is tough for some of these coaches to lay off going after those kids because they think it will mean instant success.

I'd take a bunch of 3's and 4's that work their butts off before the 5's that are here for a pit stop. 

[NavinRJohnson]

I think his (Izzo's) team is fairly healthy now so it'll be interesting to see how they do against Michigan today and in the tournament.

I advance of actual matchups, I really like them along with Louisville and probably Florida, as most likely to win the thing.

[Atticus]

MSU is mentioned with several top recruits for 2015. I guess they will back off of them. Sure.

[BenCat12]

This isn't an all or nothing deal.  Not getting top 100 guys is fine if you have a coach who can develop players (like Ryan, Izzo, Marshall, and Stevens have done).  The problem is getting players in the 50-200 range that show no development, either because of a lack of playing time, lack of coaching, or a bad attitude.  Expectations are high for these players both from fans, media and the entourage.  Some coaches do better with previously developed talent (see Buzz and all his successful JUCO's) and some do better with guys who are willing to bide their time and develop into players and great teams (Wisconsin, Michigan St, Butler, VCU, Wichita St., etc..).  I said this before and I got blasted, but Buzz has not shown a great ability to improve the kids he gets straight out of high school.  He has been extremely successful with guys who have been coached at and played significant minutes at JUCO's.  These players are all ready skilled and talented when they get here because of their previous stops.  Buzz is able to motivate them and get them to play the right way so they can get to the next level.  Put it this way.  My opinion of Buzz as a coach is, I would rather have the number one JUCO guard commit to MU than a top 10 out of high school guard. 

[Texas Western]

gBeen following MSU as long as MU dating back to late 60s. MSU has always embraced the underdog label for their program even though they have stood shoulder to shoulder with Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Carolina etc for four decades. The one thing they have been able to do is get that one exceptional player who has the potential to be a collegiate force. Some times those kids work out for them (eg Jason Richardson Zach Randolph) and sometimes they don't because of injury (Delvon Roe). Sometimes they take time to develop (eg Draymond Green). Izzo constantly says he is swearing off recruiting the top players, but reality is he will keep chasing the ones he thinks he can get.  I think what he and Jud Heathcoate both did was take a lot of players with athletic potential and through coaching made them into very strong collegiate players .

If Buzz follows the MSU model he will be fine. The Big East is enough of a platform, and we spend enough on recruiting, for us to get that one strong recruit a year. The one thing I would say that is different is that Izzo has never really tried to force a round peg through a square whole , the way Buzz did this year with Derrick and Jake. I am hoping that is a learning experience.

[NotAnAlum]

These players are all ready skilled and talented when they get here because of their previous stops. 

I think this is an over generalization,  I remember watching Jimmy B when he first got to MU and he sure didn't look very talented.  Juan for example looked much more BE ready during his pre freshman Pro Am than Jimmy looked and Jimmy was a soph.  There is no easy answer.  Some guys work out some guys don't.  That said I think we better learn to do more with less (as we have in the past) because MU is just never going to attract the guys who beleive in HS they are already NBA bound.

[bilsu]

I think the thing you have to realize is that Michigan St. will lose their best players this year and as the article says it may take them three years to build a final four calibur team again. You need to recruit good players that grow with the program over four years. Izzo also commented how fans do not remember what you accomplished. Basically, even a coach with Izzo's record has to put up unrealistic fans. I am not sure how good MU will be next year, but I believe they will be very good four years from now, if the current class sticks around.

[BenCat12]

I think this is an over generalization,  I remember watching Jimmy B when he first got to MU and he sure didn't look very talented.  Juan for example looked much more BE ready during his pre freshman Pro Am than Jimmy looked and Jimmy was a soph.  There is no easy answer.  Some guys work out some guys don't.  That said I think we better learn to do more with less (as we have in the past) because MU is just never going to attract the guys who beleive in HS they are already NBA bound.

Of coarse it is a generalization.  But the track record speaks for itself.  Buzz's success with JUCO's is undeniable.  His success with high school guys is not nearly to the same level.  Jimmy was very good as a sophomore, especially late in the season.  The Villanova game and St. John's games in particular.  As for Juan, he has regressed, and was a high school guy, just saying.