Buzz didn't Learn

[muchamps]

I wrote this in early January,most of you said I was nuts.There were exception NERS and Willie.

Its been said here many times,for weeks.I wrote about it five weeks ago(Dec). You can't win by not playing you Best team. You can't give up major minutes to your bench players and in some cases, walkons (Jake) with out calculating what you've lost before you try to save the game. I'll say it again, your 3 best players need to play 32-35 min.
Here's an exercise, name a top 20 team that has their leading scorer on the bench and when he is in the game the second and third best players sit down.
We will lose "almost all" games against the top 25 if this continues. "The Best", group could be amazing. It may cost us that special recruit or a freshman who knows he is better now. It will be a miserable season, knowing what we could have been.
Buzz has eroded the confidence of Gardner and Mayo,it seems he just doesn't like Gardner, from the beginning;his weight and picking at him all the time,the substitution's, penalizing him for every mistake.I'm surprised Gardner stayed.
Maybe we have a great recruiter and a confused coach now, displaying some kind unexplained loyalty,(Otule) without regard for winning. I'm hoping the "losing" clears the mind for Buzz.

[ronald dragon]

I wouldn't brag about being backed by Willie and ners...

[NersEllenson]

I wouldn't brag about being backed by Willie and ners...

Take all the shots you want - MUChamps post was right on - and anyone with a slight degree of a basketball IQ could see the same - the season was going to be terrible if major changes weren't made.  Struggled to beat Southern and New Hampshire out the gate.  Scored 35 against Ohio State.  Those 3 games in and of themselves should have signaled to Buzz - the current approach isn't going to work.

I LOVE MU basketball as much as anyone, have no divided loyalty over it in the way of attending other schools.  Have been a HUGE Buzz backer since he took over the program - got called a Kool Aid guy, blue and gold colored glasses...all kinds of crap for being supportive and optimistic of all of our teams..including midget year - said they would still be okay and playing really well given the limitations.

But this year....it was evident early it was broken.  Buzz had an awful year.  Every good coach can have them.  None of us are perfect.  Yet, it just baffled me and others - as it seemed so painfully obvious what needed to be done...and who the best players were on the team:  Mayo, Gardner, Burton, Gardner..who all should have had minutes maxed.  Perfect example of where Buzz was bad:  Burton single handidly gets us back in game against SDSU...and then Buzz sends him to bench for last 12 minutes of the game...I won't even start again on the PG situation.

[79Warrior]

How many minutes per game have Gardner and Todd played recently?

It is beyond stupid to think Buzz is not playing who the coaches feel are the best players to help the team win. How dumb does one have to be to think Buzz and the team are happy getting beat knowing the "best players" are not playing enough? Unbelievable.

[NersEllenson]

How many minutes per game have Gardner and Todd played recently?

It is beyond stupid to think Buzz is not playing who the coaches feel are the best players to help the team win. How dumb does one have to be to think Buzz and the team are happy getting beat knowing the "best players" are not playing enough? Unbelievable.

Obviously Mayo's minutes have been upped significantly in the last 8 games and he looks like a totally different player - than the guy who before would get yanked after 1 or 2 bad plays.  Burton finished the year averaging 12 minutes per game.  Dawson...10 minutes per game...in the games he actually played in.

Meanwhile, it was just far too great of risk for Buzz to consider splitting minutes at the PG position - and not only didn't split them - he gave MAX minutes to Derrick - more than any other player...and we don't need to discuss how Derrick finished the season.  All that needed to be said as evidence was Steve Lavin calling a timeout, up 6 points, right at the moment Derrick went down with a cramp.  He WANTED to give MU time to work out the cramp and let MU get him back in the game.  Have never seen such a show of disrespect for a player in 30 years of watching basketball.

[willie warrior]

I wouldn't brag about being backed by Willie and ners...

yep--the cheap shots from the cheap seats.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Agree with MUCHAMPS 100%. 

[ronald dragon]

Take all the shots you want - MUChamps post was right on - and anyone with a slight degree of a basketball IQ could see the same - the season was going to be terrible if major changes weren't made.  Struggled to beat Southern and New Hampshire out the gate.  Scored 35 against Ohio State.  Those 3 games in and of themselves should have signaled to Buzz - the current approach isn't going to work.

I LOVE MU basketball as much as anyone, have no divided loyalty over it in the way of attending other schools.  Have been a HUGE Buzz backer since he took over the program - got called a Kool Aid guy, blue and gold colored glasses...all kinds of crap for being supportive and optimistic of all of our teams..including midget year - said they would still be okay and playing really well given the limitations.

But this year....it was evident early it was broken.  Buzz had an awful year.  Every good coach can have them.  None of us are perfect.  Yet, it just baffled me and others - as it seemed so painfully obvious what needed to be done...and who the best players were on the team:  Mayo, Gardner, Burton, Gardner..who all should have had minutes maxed.  Perfect example of where Buzz was bad:  Burton single handidly gets us back in game against SDSU...and then Buzz sends him to bench for last 12 minutes of the game...I won't even start again on the PG situation.

Didn't mean to take a cheap shot at ya ners, just said that because the general consensus on the board disagrees with you. Not that it's bad or anything, we all want MU to do well we just have
differing views on how it should be accomplished.

[willie warrior]

How many minutes per game have Gardner and Todd played recently?

It is beyond stupid to think Buzz is not playing who the coaches feel are the best players to help the team win. How dumb does one have to be to think Buzz and the team are happy getting beat knowing the "best players" are not playing enough? Unbelievable.

How dumb is it to keep playing the same PG for 40 minutes when he is costing us games? Summed up best by the experts:
Kevin O'Neil: "They are playing 4 on 5 with that PG out there"

12 year old daughter of MU Fan at the game (who according to the father, she knows nothing about basketball): "Daddy, why isn't anybody guarding #12?"

And nobody said Buzz is happy getting beat, except you. Buzz is blindly stubborn.

[Goose]

I agree about 95% with Willie and Ners this season. This was not a great team and Buzz had a horrible year IMO. Really got to the point that it became difficult to watch. Do not think we are great time by any stretch, but definitely underperfomed. I stated months ago that I thought Buzz was stubborn and sticking with that thought. Hoping that we do not lose any freshmen due to lack of playing time.

[noblewarrior]

I don't think the majority of this board disagrees 100% with Ners, Willie, Heros etc... Its their constant harping everyone is tired of... We know this teams shortcomings and Buzz should have addressed this much, much earlier.  Below is a quote from what I wrote back on Nov 17th after the 3rd game of the season!... I think I gave Buzz too much credit.  I thought he would see the writing on the wall.  Guess not.  



"The frosh definitely need to play more...all of them... to gain experience and confidence for BE play and hopefully the postseason or this front court will have been wasted and this season will have been the most disappointing thus far in Buzz's tenure (based on preseason expectations...Armageddon mode here)...

This team will not meet expectations with Derek and Jake playing heavy mins in the backcourt.  That's not saying they can't start or be in during crucial points in the game or even play heavy mins when they are producing... This team will not get back to the second weekend with Derek and Jake combining for over 50 mins of play game in and game out.  

That being said, it's only the third game and who knows what was going through Buzz's shaved head.  This guys thought processes defy normal logic.  I love Buzz as a coach and trust he will continue to adjust to what is best for this team to be successful and have a chance to win.

I think everyone has that feeling in their gut that MU's backcourt is struggling.  Even the most hardened supporters and Buzz groupies can feel that...and as 4never alluded too, it's a personnel issue... so I hope to see Buzz start to develop the personnel and talent that is on the team to create success later when most think it counts the most."


I honestly believe if the frosh had gotten decent mins from the outset this season MU would be in a position to make a better BET push than they do now.  Who knows if the record would be better though.

[reinko]

Again, if people think Buzz played Otule and DW out of loyalty rather than trying to win games, he should be fired.  

As simple as that.

[mu03eng]

Again, if people think Buzz played Otule and DW out of loyalty rather than trying to win games, he should be fired.  

As simple as that.

This is where I'm confused as well with the Buzz should have done more group.  Either Buzz had a different perspective/plan than you which is ok to debate or Buzz blindly choose to ignore evidence that was clearly available even to the most casual viewer based on loyalty.  If it's the latter than Buzz should be gone.

If it's the former let's debate that without getting all out of whack....but you also have to acknowledge that there is evidence nobody here has that Buzz does have...that unknown is key.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Its been said here many times,for weeks.I wrote about it five weeks ago(Dec). You can't win by not playing you Best team. You can't give up major minutes to your bench players and in some cases, walkons (Jake) with out calculating what you've lost before you try to save the game. I'll say it again, your 3 best players need to play 32-35 min.

Who is our best team? The stats say it is:

Derrick
Mayo
Thomas
Jamil
Gardner

And lo and behold. That's the five players who got the most amount of time. Could you have upped their minutes some more? Absolutely. I do think that Buzz relied a little too much on bench players this year (except in the case of the PG which is strange to me). But to say he didn't play our best team, I think is wrong. Maybe he didn't play his best team enough.

And actually, he's really shortened the rotation lately. No more JJJ, almost no Juan/Steve. Otule, Burton, and Dawson are the only bench players who really see the floor. And you have a big to spell Gardner, a PG to spell Derrick (who doesn't get as many minutes as he should IMO), and a guard-forward for the middle three positions.

Jake is a former walk on. He more than earned his spot in the rotation.

Here's an exercise, name a top 20 team that has their leading scorer on the bench and when he is in the game the second and third best players sit down.

Name any team that does that. Cause we certainly don't. Gardner played with Jamil and Mayo for huge chunks this season. I assume that's the three players your a referring to. Please let me know if I misinterpreted.

We will lose "almost all" games against the top 25 if this continues. "The Best", group could be amazing. It may cost us that special recruit or a freshman who knows he is better now. It will be a miserable season, knowing what we could have been.

Looking at our recruiting class for next season, and the fact that we already have a top 60 kid lined up or 2015 and a probable top 100 kid for 2017 in tow, I don't think it's truly impacting our recruiting. We will lose somebody. We are overcommitted by one. If someone transfers, they will be going to a program that is less than Marquette. And we will be better for it. Every time Buzz has lost a transfer, he has replaced him with someone better.

Buzz has eroded the confidence of Gardner and Mayo,it seems he just doesn't like Gardner, from the beginning;his weight and picking at him all the time,the substitution's, penalizing him for every mistake.I'm surprised Gardner stayed.

Judging by their production, especially recently, I'm not sure what confidence erosion you are seeing. They are both having fantastic seasons. Buzz loves Gardner and Gardner loves Buzz. Just from Davante's senior speech you could tell that. Buzz took a no name, out of shape, 2 star from backwoods Virigina and turned him into a star. Davante loves him for that. The "picking on him" comes from a place of love.

The offense/defense switching happened a little too often for my taste. But Gardner knew why it was done. Every measure in the book favors Chris over Davante on defense.

Maybe we have a great recruiter and a confused coach now, displaying some kind unexplained loyalty,(Otule) without regard for winning. I'm hoping the "losing" clears the mind for Buzz.

I'm not sure why one would think that Chris only gets playing time for sake of loyalty. He logged enough minutes to be considered our first player of the bench. He put up fantastic numbers for a bench player, 6 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 1 bpg. Getting that kind of production off the bench is huge. Chris earned the right to be on the floor. I do agree that he could have sat in favor of Gardner a few more minutes. But that was the least of our problems this year.

The last sentence, I absolutely agree with. I think he learned a lot about himself, his style, and what's important. I hope he realizes that he needs to have at least 2 PGs on the roster that he trusts to run the team. I hope he learns that while athletes are great, shooters are still needed. I hope he realizes that his "special teams" plays are not working and need to be improved. These are just a few of the takeaways I hope he gets from this season.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Guard's game....been saying it here for 7+ years.  Do I get credit?   

[Goose]

Chico's


Agree completely. It is a guards game and we lack in that department.

[Big Papi]

Take all the shots you want - MUChamps post was right on - and anyone with a slight degree of a basketball IQ could see the same -

Great we have a coach who doesn't have the slightest degree of basketball IQ.  We need to fire Curly TODAY!!!

[tower912]

Buzz didn't learn.  
Buzz had gone 60-30 in 5 Big East seasons.   He had won 8 tournament games in 5 seasons, the last 3 ending with the S16, S16, E8.   Buzz had established a brand built on toughness.   A brand where there was a leader or leaders on every team. A brand where every loose ball was fought for, every rebound contested, where MU had won a whole bunch of toss up games in the last minute by being mentally tougher.   Perhaps he got complacent, thinking that it was a given that this year's seniors would all have a Warrior mentality every time out.    Perhaps he assumed that since he had gotten performances out of Jae, Lazar, and Jimmy that got them to the league, that Wilson would automatically be the next in line.    Perhaps he assumed that with 4 seniors, that they would show leadership in August and September and into October every day.     Perhaps he assumed that he would get automatic buy in from his talented JUCO all American forward.   After all, all of the other JUCO's had bought in.    Perhaps he thought that the rotation would reveal itself because every body would be bringing it every day in practice.    Perhaps he thought that STjr and Duane's injuries were minor and wouldn't impact their season.   Perhaps he tried to apply last year's template to this year's team, and kept looking for the right guy to play the 'Lockett' role.
     I think he learned that there can never be a let up.   That you can't assume that players want the mantle of leadership.    That culture matters.    That every team, like every child is different.   And while you have certain bedrock principles you need to instill, every team, every person learns them differently.    And that when you think you have things in a groove, that the game will humble you.      
    I hope so, anyway.    Because next year is going to be yet another set of challenges he hasn't seen before.