Last 5 Games

[NersEllenson]

Anyone want to debate these numbers:?

Dwil's last five games:

171 minutes
Total of 11 points.  Thats 2 ppg.
3 for 16 in field goal attempts  Thats 19%
5 for 16 in free throws  Thats 31%
Assists 21, turnovers 8  OK....

Dawson (imagine if you tripled his numbers to get him to just 159 minutes compared to Derricks 171)
53 minutes
15 points
4-5 free throws
6-12 FG's
7 Assists, 4 TO.s

[jesmu84]

No debating. Dawson still couldn't beat out Derrick in Buzz's opinion, for some reason.

[chapman]

But, but two whole plays today!!!

[NersEllenson]

No debating. Dawson still couldn't beat out Derrick in Buzz's opinion, for some reason.

Well said....

[Hards Alumni]

Anyone want to debate these numbers:?

Dwil's last five games:

171 minutes
Total of 11 points.  Thats 2 ppg.
3 for 16 in field goal attempts  Thats 19%
5 for 16 in free throws  Thats 31%
Assists 21, turnovers 8  OK....

Dawson (imagine if you tripled his numbers to get him to just 159 minutes compared to Derricks 171)
53 minutes
15 points
4-5 free throws
6-12 FG's
7 Assists, 4 TO.s

Seriously, shut the hell up.  You've run enough people off this board this year with your nonstop rants.  It is incredibly tiresome, and you are ruining this place for a lot of people.  We probably don't need a new thread about this less than 6 hours after you started this thread:  http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=42457.0

[WarriorGreg1965]

Seriously, shut the hell up.  You've run enough people off this board this year with your nonstop rants.  It is incredibly tiresome, and you are ruining this place for a lot of people.  We probably don't need a new thread about this less than 6 hours after you started this thread:  http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=42457.0

Why should he "shut the hell up?"  The D. Wilson PG situation will have a huge impact on next season.  You cannot have a successful team with that limited a player at that position.

Stats can be used to prove almost any point, but just watching the game, his deficiencies cause so many problems.  And with so much scoring about to leave, the team cannot afford to have him in the game for major minutes.

[MU82]

He shouldn't shut the hell up. Nobody needs to open a single one of Ners' posts if that's the choice.

Ners is free to post 935 times about this subject if he wants to.

Oh wait, there's 936.

937.

938.

Can't ... keep ... count ...

[nathanziarek]

Seriously, shut the hell up.  You've run enough people off this board this year with your nonstop rants.  It is incredibly tiresome, and you are ruining this place for a lot of people.  We probably don't need a new thread about this less than 6 hours after you started this thread:  http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=42457.0

I second this. Season's over, and there's no number of threads you can create here that'll change Buzz's mind. If you wanted to have an actual discussion, that'd be nice. But these are just rants, and they seem to infect and ruin every thread here.

Please, feel free to email Buzz about how wrong he is. The constant badgering of this kid—who's doing everything he's capable of—is psychotic and cruel.

[Hards Alumni]

Why should he "shut the hell up?"  The D. Wilson PG situation will have a huge impact on next season.  You cannot have a successful team with that limited a player at that position.

Stats can be used to prove almost any point, but just watching the game, his deficiencies cause so many problems.  And with so much scoring about to leave, the team cannot afford to have him in the game for major minutes.

He can talk about it until he is blue in the face (he does), but he doesn't need to pollute the board with so many threads about the same topic.

Seriously, shuuuuuuuuuut the hell up.

[Dawson Rental]

Why should he "shut the hell up?"  The D. Wilson PG situation will have a huge impact on next season.  You cannot have a successful team with that limited a player at that position.

Stats can be used to prove almost any point, but just watching the game, his deficiencies cause so many problems.  And with so much scoring about to leave, the team cannot afford to have him in the game for major minutes.

You've only been registered for four days.  Which is fine, you have just as much right to an opinion as anyone else.  My only point is once you've had a little more time in here, you just might begin to feel as dizzy as Hards Alumni and others from several daily trips down the same rabbit hole.

[79Warrior]

Anyone want to debate these numbers:?

Dwil's last five games:

171 minutes
Total of 11 points.  Thats 2 ppg.
3 for 16 in field goal attempts  Thats 19%
5 for 16 in free throws  Thats 31%
Assists 21, turnovers 8  OK....

Dawson (imagine if you tripled his numbers to get him to just 159 minutes compared to Derricks 171)
53 minutes
15 points
4-5 free throws
6-12 FG's
7 Assists, 4 TO.s

Send them to Buzz. I am sure he will get back to you.

[79Warrior]

Anyone want to debate these numbers:?

Dwil's last five games:

171 minutes
Total of 11 points.  Thats 2 ppg.
3 for 16 in field goal attempts  Thats 19%
5 for 16 in free throws  Thats 31%
Assists 21, turnovers 8  OK....

Dawson (imagine if you tripled his numbers to get him to just 159 minutes compared to Derricks 171)

53 minutes
15 points
4-5 free throws
6-12 FG's
7 Assists, 4 TO.s

By the way, what did he do today. Turned the ball over at the point and also had the ball stripped from him a short time later. I think that was enough to get the hook after two minutes..

[NersEllenson]

I second this. Season's over, and there's no number of threads you can create here that'll change Buzz's mind. If you wanted to have an actual discussion, that'd be nice. But these are just rants, and they seem to infect and ruin every thread here.

Please, feel free to email Buzz about how wrong he is. The constant badgering of this kid—who's doing everything he's capable of—is psychotic and cruel.

I presented a new round of stats on the matter...it's not a rant...I'm trying to engage a discussion among dissenting opinion posters as to how they hold their position given the last 5 games of data....I'd rather the discussion take a more positive tone...truly.  Why are those who dissent and continuously say Dawson isn't ready, and he' isn't the best PG on the team not considered psychotic and cruel?  Let's face it..that faction hasn't gotten to see nearly the sample size of data to arrive at their conclusion...yet they make such statements frequently.

I like who Derrick is as a kid....and have said all along he'd be a great backup PG...

[NersEllenson]

By the way, what did he do today. Turned the ball over at the point and also had the ball stripped from him a short time later. I think that was enough to get the hook after two minutes..

And those 2 turnovers are presented in the stats I gave...now when Dawson comes in and makes a basket within his first 1 or 2 minutes of a game...is he then given all the remaining minutes in the game?  The short leash is ridiculous, considering what the output of the alternative has been...

All those of us on the Dawson camp have been saying is give the guy 25+ minutes for a few games and see how he does...maybe it is a complete train wreck...but there have been flashes to suggest it wouldn't be...why not take a closer look?  And yes, that is on Buzz.  I won't e-mail him...as I'm sure he's gotten plenty of e-mail on the matter as it is...seriously.

[jesmu84]

Hypothetical... If you convinced 100% of this board of your viewpoint, would these posts stop? If Buzz continued to play Derrick, my guess is no. So, really, the only logical thing to do is to speak to Buzz about the situation. Shoot him an email.

[muwarrior97]

I thought there was a moratorium?  Did I miss the memo?

[willie warrior]

Well said....

No legitimate reason, however.

[NersEllenson]

Seriously, shut the hell up.  You've run enough people off this board this year with your nonstop rants.  It is incredibly tiresome, and you are ruining this place for a lot of people.  We probably don't need a new thread about this less than 6 hours after you started this thread:  http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=42457.0

Nice mature response Hards....since you can't find a way to attack the original post/data presented - you attack me.  But if you would, please do go ahead and tell me why given the last 5 games data - including Dawson having a rough 2 minute outing against St. John's - there isn't a debate to be had as to who should be getting the minutes at PG position??

You triple Dawson numbers to get close to Derrick's minutes and he "outscores" him 45 to 11, while shooting 50% better from FT line, and equaling him in assists 21 - but damn...he would turn the ball over 4 more times.

[MU_LOL]

Anyone want to debate these numbers:?

Dwil's last five games:

171 minutes
Total of 11 points.  Thats 2 ppg.
3 for 16 in field goal attempts  Thats 19%
5 for 16 in free throws  Thats 31%
Assists 21, turnovers 8  OK....

Those numbers are alarming

[hoops12]

As frustrated as some of you get on this topic (and Ners posts in particular), I agree with him concerning D. Wilson. He should have played a role on the team this year. His role was WAY TOO MUCH and it hurt the team. He has way too many deficiencies to warrant the type of playing time he had. He is an average, yes average, defender. He can't create and he dribbles the ball way too much. Most of the time he walks the ball up the floor, and he passes the ball east to west. He cannot, and will not look to shoot the ball. Point guards need to create, get into the lane and draw the defense so they can make their teammates better. Instead, teams sagged off of him and the court became smaller for our other players to do well. When five guys can really pack it into a smaller area to defend, that is a huge advantage. Derrick would occasionally get to the basket, but even then he couldn't finish with consistency. He protected the ball (or had few turnovers) because he never tried to create for others. If all you do is walk the ball up the court and throw the ball to the wing or post, anyone would have few turnovers. His assists came from throwing it to the wing for a shot, or into the post where the a man had his guy pinned down.

Don't get me wrong, Derrick could have played an important role for our team this year, but he shouldn't have gotten the long leash or the kind of minutes he was given. Losing Duane Wilson was a huge loss for us, but if Dawson was given more of an opportunity, he would have gained confidence in himself and would have given us so much more from the point guard position. Also, Mayo should have been given opportunities at the point as well. We lost many close games this season, and we will never know what could have happened if others would have gotten some of Derrick's minutes. Whatever the case, I would have liked to have seen what would've or could've  happened.

I am grateful for the effort and hard work Derrick gave for the team this year. It is not on him. This is strictly what Buzz decided to go with and Derrick was just doing the best job he could. Buzz got tunnel vision in my opinion. He was very quick to pull some of the guys (JJJ, Juan, Todd, Steve, and John), but our starting backcourt was given a long, long, long leash. Many times they played 35 minutes and had very poor games. I like Derrick a lot and I'm glad he's part of our team, but he should have played a similar role to the one he played last year. A steady, hardworking backup. I would given the other minutes to Mayo, Dawson, and at times, Jamil.  

[BallBoy]

Anyone want to debate these numbers:?

Dwil's last five games:

171 minutes
Total of 11 points.  Thats 2 ppg.
3 for 16 in field goal attempts  Thats 19%
5 for 16 in free throws  Thats 31%
Assists 21, turnovers 8  OK....

Dawson (imagine if you tripled his numbers to get him to just 159 minutes compared to Derricks 171)
53 minutes
15 points
4-5 free throws
6-12 FG's
7 Assists, 4 TO.s

So let's play the multiplication game.  If Dawson played 20 minutes against St John's he would have had 20 TOs. 

If we multiplied his season statistics by 3, he would have 3 offensive rebounds. 

In the Georgetown game he played 18 minutes, if we triple that he would have played 54 minutes.  If we triple his points, he would have had zero. 

In the Villanova game had we tripled his time he would have had 6 TOs. 

Dawson averaged exactly a third of Wilson's minutes over the season.  Assuming they played even minutes

Dawson 6.3 pts
Wilson 5.1 pts

Dawson 3.3 Rebounds
Wilson 3.8 Rebounds

Dawson 3.3 Assists
Wilson 4.2 Assists

Dawson .3 steals
Wilson 1.3 steals

Dawson 0 blocks
Wilson .1 blocks

Dawson 2.1 TOs
Wilson 1.5 TOs

Now Wilson took a shot every 6.26 minutes while Dawson took a shot every 4.85 minutes.  Dawson had a worse FG percentage.  If we triple his shots he would have taken 147 shots to Wilson's 153.  If we apply Dawson's shooting percentage he would have made 48.  Wilson made 60. 

I think we can all agree that Wilson is a better defender so Dawson would give up more points. 

Based on season stats and the multiplier (which is BS measure) Wilson was still the better point guard. Also by this measure if Dawson played more then MU would have lost more because we would have have given up more points, had more TOs, gotten less offensive rebounds, shot and missed more baskets, and had less assists. 

Now I  do believe that Dawson deserved the 12-15 minutes a game which he was getting in 3 of the last 5 games.  If you also watch the games, in many of them Dawson was not playing point but instead they moved Mayo or Jamil or even had the Derrick/Dawson lineup.  Dawson was playing the 2G which might actually be his natural position and a way to get more time.  Then Duane/Derrick can fight for PG minutes. 

Playing time doesn't make you a better player, practice does.  I agree with everyone that Wilson left a lot to be desired but I do not believe that playing him less or playing Dawson more would have equaled more victories.  MU had way too many holes and incomplete players.  If Dawson couldn't beat out Derrick for playing time in practice then he shouldn't get the minutes in the game and never once did it look like the other players were more excited to have Dawson in the game.

[BenCat12]

So let's play the multiplication game.  If Dawson played 20 minutes against St John's he would have had 20 TOs.  

If we multiplied his season statistics by 3, he would have 3 offensive rebounds.  

In the Georgetown game he played 18 minutes, if we triple that he would have played 54 minutes.  If we triple his points, he would have had zero.  

In the Villanova game had we tripled his time he would have had 6 TOs.  

Dawson averaged exactly a third of Wilson's minutes over the season.  Assuming they played even minutes

Dawson 6.3 pts
Wilson 5.1 pts

Dawson 3.3 Rebounds
Wilson 3.8 Rebounds

Dawson 3.3 Assists
Wilson 4.2 Assists

Dawson .3 steals
Wilson 1.3 steals

Dawson 0 blocks
Wilson .1 blocks

Dawson 2.1 TOs
Wilson 1.5 TOs

Now Wilson took a shot every 6.26 minutes while Dawson took a shot every 4.85 minutes.  Dawson had a worse FG percentage.  If we triple his shots he would have taken 147 shots to Wilson's 153.  If we apply Dawson's shooting percentage he would have made 48.  Wilson made 60.  

I think we can all agree that Wilson is a better defender so Dawson would give up more points.  

Based on season stats and the multiplier (which is BS measure) Wilson was still the better point guard. Also by this measure if Dawson played more then MU would have lost more because we would have have given up more points, had more TOs, gotten less offensive rebounds, shot and missed more baskets, and had less assists.  

Now I  do believe that Dawson deserved the 12-15 minutes a game which he was getting in 3 of the last 5 games.  If you also watch the games, in many of them Dawson was not playing point but instead they moved Mayo or Jamil or even had the Derrick/Dawson lineup.  Dawson was playing the 2G which might actually be his natural position and a way to get more time.  Then Duane/Derrick can fight for PG minutes.  

Playing time doesn't make you a better player, practice does.  I agree with everyone that Wilson left a lot to be desired but I do not believe that playing him less or playing Dawson more would have equaled more victories.  MU had way too many holes and incomplete players.  If Dawson couldn't beat out Derrick for playing time in practice then he shouldn't get the minutes in the game and never once did it look like the other players were more excited to have Dawson in the game.

This is so blatantly wrong it is amazing.

Playing time for a freshmen makes you exponentially better.  In game experience at the college level for a freshmen with talent is far more valuable than practice.

[BallBoy]

This is so blatantly wrong it is amazing.

Playing time for a freshmen makes you exponentially better.  In game experience at the college level for a freshmen with talent is far more valuable than practice.

What do most players credit with making them better?  
1.  Playing time as a freshman
2.  Working extremely hard during the off season (weights, practice shooting, etc.)

Name one player who matches your profile.  

Name one coach who has said I really made XYZ player into a superstar because I played him as a freshman.  

Take any level of basketball and those people who put in more time off the court saw more time on it and they were better players.  

You are confusing freshman who have proven they are the better players in practice and therefore get playing time with playing time made them better.  
 

[brandx]

You've only been registered for four days.  Which is fine, you have just as much right to an opinion as anyone else.  My only point is once you've had a little more time in here, you just might begin to feel as dizzy as Hards Alumni and others from several daily trips down the same rabbit hole.

Then put him on ignore.

The problem is that they are both right. There is plenty of reason to be upset about 17-14. Derrick is a big part of that. And yes, I am tired of all of Ners' posts about it. We all get it by now. He's not making any new point and hasn't for a couple of months.

[Coleman]

Its not that I necessarily disagree with Ners. Its that he never stops posting about it. We get it. We know your opinion. What else is there to say on the matter? What are you hoping to achieve?

Ners, if you kept all of your thoughts on the D Wilson/Dawson issue in one thread, I'd honestly be fine with it. Its that you keep posting new threads on the exact same issue literally every day. Give it a rest, on behalf of Scoop, I beg you. Get outside. Go for a jog.