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Next up: A long offseason

Marquette
66
Marquette
Scrimmage
Date/Time: Oct 4, 2025
TV: NA
Schedule for 2024-25
New Mexico
75

MU82

After some decent games, Derrick was an absolute disaster for most of this one.

Looked like he had never seen a trap before.

Couldn't finish to save his life.

Several awful passes.

Total inability to penetrate and create.

Embarrassment at the FT line.

Beaten often by several different offensive opponents.

When he's playing well, he is at least in control and a safe game-manager. Today, he was so clearly overmatched by anybody Villanova felt like putting against him.

If I didn't know he was a junior who averages 30 minutes, I'd have thought he was a freshman playing in his third game.

Dawson was no better. And for the Mayo-at-PG proponents, he was sloppy and out of sorts. Jamil? Did he even show up for the game? I'm not sure. So in a road game against a highly ranked opponent -- a game in which we needed great PG play to even have a chance -- we got nothing positive and a lot negative from the most important position on the court. Ugh.

As for the 2G, I'm still trying to figure out why Buzz couldn't find a couple minutes before garbage time for JJJ. When Jake is going well, by all means, milk him for everything he's worth. But when he stinks, as he did today, it's time to try someone else just for the sake of it. We're down 15 and Jake is throwing bricks; really, could JJJ have done any worse?
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

Markusquette

I noticed his near full-court shots have been closer than most of his free throws this year.

jesmu84

Quote from: MU82 on March 02, 2014, 08:09:43 PM
After some decent games, Derrick was an absolute disaster for most of this one.

Looked like he had never seen a trap before.

Couldn't finish to save his life.

Several awful passes.

Total inability to penetrate and create.

Embarrassment at the FT line.

Beaten often by several different offensive opponents.

When he's playing well, he is at least in control and a safe game-manager. Today, he was so clearly overmatched by anybody Villanova felt like putting against him.

If I didn't know he was a junior who averages 30 minutes, I'd have thought he was a freshman playing in his third game.

Dawson was no better. And for the Mayo-at-PG proponents, he was sloppy and out of sorts. Jamil? Did he even show up for the game? I'm not sure. So in a road game against a highly ranked opponent -- a game in which we needed great PG play to even have a chance -- we got nothing positive and a lot negative from the most important position on the court. Ugh.

As for the 2G, I'm still trying to figure out why Buzz couldn't find a couple minutes before garbage time for JJJ. When Jake is going well, by all means, milk him for everything he's worth. But when he stinks, as he did today, it's time to try someone else just for the sake of it. We're down 15 and Jake is throwing bricks; really, could JJJ have done any worse?

I might be misremembering, but I thought that when Buzz realized Jake wasn't good today, Todd moved to the 2, Jamil/Juan moved to the 3, Steve/Burton moved to the 4. I think JJJ was only going to see time if Jake and Todd were both awful at the 2.

4everwarriors

Step back implies there ever was some forward progress, a'ina?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

Wojo'sMojo

Quote from: jesmu84 on March 02, 2014, 08:26:47 PM
I might be misremembering, but I thought that when Buzz realized Jake wasn't good today, Todd moved to the 2, Jamil/Juan moved to the 3, Steve/Burton moved to the 4. I think JJJ was only going to see time if Jake and Todd were both awful at the 2.

Jake played 34 minutes today. The OP asked why couldn't JJJ get a couple of the minutes at the 2 where Jake was playing, not why people were moved around and where they moved to.

MU82

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 02, 2014, 08:35:30 PM
Step back implies there ever was some forward progress, a'ina?

Derrick had several decent to good games during the 6-2 streak before this game. As I said, at the very least he managed the game well, and he gradually has gotten better at creating for others. To deny that he had taken a few steps forward would be dishonest. And today, he took a major step backward.

Given the opponent, the importance of the game and the need for a big performance at the most critical position, I don't think it would be a reach to call this his most inept outing. Certainly in his top five (or is it bottom five?). I was hoping Buzz would take him out as an act of mercy just because I felt sorry for him.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

WarriorFan

Derrick looked like a Yugo doing 30 mph in the fast lane of I-94 through Chicago.
"The meaning of life isn't gnashing our bicuspids over what comes after death but tasting the tiny moments that come before it."

77ncaachamps

#7
Buzz believing in his guys, I get it.

But I have a hard time accepting 7 total points from the starting guards and the bench outscoring the starting five.
And believing that this is acceptable by Buzz.

Something has to change. He needs to hand over significant minutes to the frosh.
Heck...JWil, Jake, and Chris don't show enough punch consistently to get this team to the NCAAs.

And in his vein, I am grateful for what each has contributed to MU's program. But this season has been a challenging one as it looked on paper like they were NCAA bound.

Looking at the drop off from Junior to DWil won't seem like much from their averages, but there is a significant production drop off:
                        MIN   FGM FGA  FTM  FTA   3PM  3PA  PTS   OFR   DFR  REB  AST  TO    STL  BLK
Junior Cadougan   982   112   260   60   84   14   62   298   16   86   102   133   87   38   3
Derrick Wilson   842   58   141   37   78   1   13   154   34   68   102   115   40   36   2

Keeping in mind Junior's stats are inclusive of post-season games, it's astonishing to see that there is almost a dropoff of 50% of FGM/Points scored: 100 or so points (trying to factor out the post season games). That could have been meant 3-4 less losses: ASU loss by 2; two OTs vs Butler and Nova; maybe Wisconsin.

Want more?
Compare the dropoff from Vander to Jake. You'll want to throw up:
                        MIN   FGM FGA  FTM  FTA   3PM  3PA  PTS   OFR   DFR  REB  AST  TO    STL  BLK
Vander Blue   1123   183   403   96   127   40   132   502   20   90   110   62   79   35   0
Jake Thomas   803   66   180   35   46   59   147   226   9   68   77   41   28   13   5

A drop off of 50%+ in points and FTM. That's a lot of points Jamil, Ox, Todd, and the rest of the team need to make up.

We're just not scoring the ball enough. And these two positions are the two which are the culprits.
SS Marquette

MU82

Quote from: 77ncaachamps on March 03, 2014, 01:33:50 AM
Buzz believing in his guys, I get it.

But I have a hard time accepting 7 total points from the starting guards and the bench outscoring the starting five.
And believing that this is acceptable by Buzz.

Something has to change. He needs to hand over significant minutes to the frosh.
Heck...JWil, Jake, and Chris don't show enough punch consistently to get this team to the NCAAs.

And in his vein, I am grateful for what each has contributed to MU's program. But this season has been a challenging one as it looked on paper like they were NCAA bound.

Looking at the drop off from Junior to DWil won't seem like much from their averages, but there is a significant production drop off:
                        MIN   FGM FGA  FTM  FTA   3PM  3PA  PTS   OFR   DFR  REB  AST  TO    STL  BLK
Junior Cadougan   982   112   260   60   84   14   62   298   16   86   102   133   87   38   3
Derrick Wilson   842   58   141   37   78   1   13   154   34   68   102   115   40   36   2

Keeping in mind Junior's stats are inclusive of post-season games, it's astonishing to see that there is almost a dropoff of 50% of FGM/Points scored: 100 or so points (trying to factor out the post season games). That could have been meant 3-4 less losses: ASU loss by 2; two OTs vs Butler and Nova; maybe Wisconsin.

Want more?
Compare the dropoff from Vander to Jake. You'll want to throw up:
                        MIN   FGM FGA  FTM  FTA   3PM  3PA  PTS   OFR   DFR  REB  AST  TO    STL  BLK
Vander Blue   1123   183   403   96   127   40   132   502   20   90   110   62   79   35   0
Jake Thomas   803   66   180   35   46   59   147   226   9   68   77   41   28   13   5

A drop off of 50%+ in points and FTM. That's a lot of points Jamil, Ox, Todd, and the rest of the team need to make up.

We're just not scoring the ball enough. And these two positions are the two which are the culprits.

We poke fun at Chicos, but he is so right about it being a guard's game.

I mean, look at Nova. They don't even really have a big man but they are a top-10 team.

Those who whine about Buzz's supposed inability to recruit big men ... unless you're talking about an Anthony Davis/Oden/Shaq-quality superstud, I'd trade a top-10 big man for a top-10 point guard every time.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

UticaBusBarn

Quote from: MU82 on March 03, 2014, 06:52:24 AM
We poke fun at Chicos, but he is so right about it being a guard's game.

I mean, look at Nova. They don't even really have a big man but they are a top-10 team.

Those who whine about Buzz's supposed inability to recruit big men ... unless you're talking about an Anthony Davis/Oden/Shaq-quality superstud, I'd trade a top-10 big man for a top-10 point guard every time.



Absolutely one hundred percent correct!

4everwarriors

Quote from: MU82 on March 03, 2014, 06:52:24 AM
We poke fun at Chicos, but he is so right about it being a guard's game.

I mean, look at Nova. They don't even really have a big man but they are a top-10 team.

Those who whine about Buzz's supposed inability to recruit big men ... unless you're talking about an Anthony Davis/Oden/Shaq-quality superstud, I'd trade a top-10 big man for a top-10 point guard every time.


Guards ain't gonna win you stink at the end of March.
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

T-Bone

Quote from: Jamil_toMU10 on March 02, 2014, 08:14:43 PM
I noticed his near full-court shots have been closer than most of his free throws this year.

Yeah.  Sort of reminds me of Cadougan and his 3 pointer vs. UConn last year.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k378Ag1Tc30
Completely unexpected.
I'm like a turtle, sometimes I get run over by a semi.

Stretchdeltsig

If you can't shoot, you lose period.  They shot well.  We stunk.  We don't defend shots well at all.

Markusquette

Quote from: T-Bone on March 03, 2014, 10:12:08 AM
Yeah.  Sort of reminds me of Cadougan and his 3 pointer vs. UConn last year.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k378Ag1Tc30
Completely unexpected.

Definitely unexpected.  Derrick hitting that shot would be a new level of unbelievable. 

MU82

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 03, 2014, 09:16:44 AM

Guards ain't gonna win you stink at the end of March.

Nova got to a Final Four just a few years ago with a four-guard lineup, and many, many other guard-centric teams have done well in March.

To win a title, yes, I'd agree you need a big man or two. But how good does that big man have to be? Dieng and Behanan were nice players but neither averaged double-digits last year for Louisville; its guards carried them to the title. I submit that if you recruit and develop Davante-caliber bigs, you can win a title with great guards.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

MarquetteDano

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 03, 2014, 09:16:44 AM

Guards ain't gonna win you stink at the end of March.


Great guards + Bad Bigs = Tourney bid

Great guards + Average Bigs = Sweet Sixteen

Great guards + Great Bigs = NCAA Title

Bad guards + Great Bigs = NIT

Average guards + Great Bigs = Tourney bid


And that is why it is a Guard's game.

LAZER

Quote from: MU82 on March 03, 2014, 10:25:17 AM
Nova got to a Final Four just a few years ago with a four-guard lineup, and many, many other guard-centric teams have done well in March.

To win a title, yes, I'd agree you need a big man or two. But how good does that big man have to be? Dieng and Behanan were nice players but neither averaged double-digits last year for Louisville; its guards carried them to the title. I submit that if you recruit and develop Davante-caliber bigs, you can win a title with great guards.

You're selling Dieng short, he was one of the best Centers in the country last year.

brandx

Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on March 03, 2014, 10:12:23 AM
If you can't shoot, you lose period.  They shot well.  We stunk.  We don't defend shots well at all.

In 4 games we let Creighton & Nova shoot 115 three-pointers. That's either bad coaching, bad defense or a combo of both.

But it will never result in a win.

ChitownSpaceForRent

For the 2005 Illini, even their "bigs" played like guards. Thus proving college is a guards game. Powell was a 3 point shooter and he was their 4 and I dont remember Augustine doing very much on the block for being a 5.

MU82

Quote from: LAZER on March 03, 2014, 11:20:33 AM
You're selling Dieng short, he was one of the best Centers in the country last year.

I liked Dieng and wished we had him, but he averaged 9.8 points. Despite being nearly 7 feet tall and athletic, he was drafted near the end of the first round and rarely plays in the NBA.

If Louisville had a Gardner-Otule combination to go with Behanan and those guards, you don't think they would have been a serious championship contender?
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

RushmoreAcademy

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 03, 2014, 09:16:44 AM

Guards ain't gonna win you stink at the end of March.

Said no coach ever.

BossplayaOtto

Quote from: Jamil_toMU10 on March 02, 2014, 08:14:43 PM
I noticed his near full-court shots have been closer than most of his free throws this year.

I almost posted this exact comment in the game thread Sunday but was too hacked off with the meltdown at the end of the half.  I know you have to be behind the line and remain in the FT circle, perhaps he could position himself in the opposite FT circle for the 3/4 court heave...

NCMUFan

#22
Derrick is the only player I have ever hoped does not get fouled.  He really looks stiff legged and off balanced at the free throw line.  I wonder what is really up with him and his free throws?

MUeng

Quote from: Jamil_toMU10 on March 02, 2014, 08:14:43 PM
I noticed his near full-court shots have been closer than most of his free throws this year.
actually laughed out loud at this one

GooooMarquette

Quote from: NCMUFan on March 03, 2014, 09:24:14 PM
Derrick is the only player I have ever hoped does not get fouled.  He really looks stiff legged and off balanced at the free throw line. 

Derrick is shooting .463 from the line this year.

Dominic shot .461 from the line as a senior.

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