Bad Mayo

[MUSF]

Easier said than done. The guy is getting walled off by up to 3 defenders at times. You can complain when it doesn't happen but it is simply hard to do when the other team knows what you intend on doing.

First off, he wasn't walled off by 3 defenders. He only drew double teams when he got the ball, and many times they chose not to double him at all. That's how he managed to score so many points and foul out two players.

Second, Mayo was driving early in the shot clock without allowing the offense to even attempt to feed DG. If he made those plays with six seconds on the shot clock because Georgetown was denying DG the ball, your argument would be valid. That simply wasn't the case.

[wadesworld]

I know what I typed. I just admitted it in the post you quoted. You took the literal meaning of it, that I think he is all around foolish. I am aware of the way I typed it and how it could easily be interpreted.

But what I just said is, If I did mean he is in general a fool you also just called a player bad. Calling someone a fool is a little less insulting then calling them straight up bad. But either way they are equivalent and I am pretty sure you don't play college basketball, just like I don't coach.

Point was that this is a message board for discussion. It can't all just be positive things would go stale. We all know that truthfully we couldn't do any better but if we see something in hindsight it's fine to not agree with it.

Someone can disagree with my opinion all they want I just want to know why my opinion is disagreed with rather than being pointed to the obvious that I am not a coach.

Fair enough.  What I saw in your post was someone who clearly got heated over a poor performance and called our coach a fool as a result, despite him having gone to 2 Sweet 16s and an Elite 8 in the past 3 years.  So my response was to get you to step back a little bit from the ledge.

Again, "Bad Mayo" is not intended as "Todd Mayo is a bad player."  It is a term that many here refer to when Todd makes poor decisions on the court like, in my opinion, he did last night.

You don't get it. It's not about context; it's about decorum and civility. Why you think it's ok to crap on these kids is beyond me. You must be pretty special or you are just a nasty f#ck.

Saying one play was inexcusable is crapping on a kid?  Wow.  Alrighty then, my fault.

This coming from a guy who rips on high school kids for calling 9-1-1 because they got burned by some hot chocolate.

[wadesworld]

First off, he wasn't walled off by 3 defenders. He only drew double teams when he got the ball, and many times they chose not to double him at all. That's how he managed to score so many points and foul out two players.

Second, Mayo was driving early in the shot clock without allowing the offense to even attempt to feed DG. If he made those plays with six seconds on the shot clock because Georgetown was denying DG the ball, your argument would be valid. That simply wasn't the case.

Bingo.  Time and situation.  Apparently many posters here do not understand that concept either.

[MUSF]

He isn't wasting opportunities...was he playing selfish ball when he rallied us back from Villanova.  Ever see D-Wade, Wesbrook, or any other slasher get stripped going to the basket, turn it over.  Todd is the one guy who will force action on the team, and can collapse a D.  Not always easy among the trees.  Todd took 4 shots last night...you want to call that "get mine," selfish, whatever.  Todd had 4 assists too. 

And yes, there is something about a defense knowing what is coming and doing what they can to shut it off....Gardner was that guy down the stretch..and GTown tried to take it away...Todd made decision to penetrate..he makes the 4' floater and doesn't get stripped on the other one...everyone is happy.

And BTW...what happened the last time we went to Gardner (who I love), he got double/tripled and missed the shot....there is such a thing as going to the well 1 too many times..

It's got nothing to do with the total number of shots he took. He made poor decisions late in the game that hurt us offensively. Driving and forcing a shot early in the shot clock when DG is absolutely wrecking their defense is selfish / get mine basketball. You are always wondering why Mayo doesn't get consistent minutes. That's why.

Are you honestly saying that at that point in the game that driving and forcing a shot early in the shot clock was a good idea? Is it a good decision to not even attempt to run through the offense for 25-30 seconds to see if we can get the ball into the post? Couldn't Mayo have made the same exact play with 6 seconds left on the clock?

[CTWarrior]

These are guys playing a game, they aren't doing all sorts of mental calculus all the time. Mayo saw an opening and went for the rim.  It closed up quicker than he expected and the Georgetown guy made a nice play.  Usually after a nice defensive play like that the result would have been out of bounds to Marquette. We got a little unlucky that it didn't work out that way.  The way last night was going there was also a good chance of a foul call.  A great decision?  No.  An inexcusable decsion?  Also no.

[keefe]

This coming from a guy who rips on high school kids for calling 9-1-1 because they got burned by some hot chocolate.

I faulted the school administration for calling 911.

[NersEllenson]

These are guys playing a game, they aren't doing all sorts of mental calculus all the time. Mayo saw an opening and went for the rim.  It closed up quicker than he expected and the Georgetown guy made a nice play.  Usually after a nice defensive play like that the result would have been out of bounds to Marquette. We got a little unlucky that it didn't work out that way.  The way last night was going there was also a good chance of a foul call.  A great decision?  No.  An inexcusable decsion?  Also no.

I take it you played the game...well said.  Mayo took all of 5 shots last night..had 4 assists...he wasn't playing me first/selfish ball.

As for Todd going to rack early in the shot clock in that situation - he had a good driving lane, and took what he saw the defense giving him/offensive opportunity.

There is no reason to play stall ball at the 3 minute mark in a 4 point game.  Waiting to go until the shot clock is down under 10 puts a hell of a lot more stress on the team to get a good look, than taking the first available good shoot/offensive opportunity.

Yes, time and score matter - if we were up 8 at the 3 minute mark...I could say better strategy would be to try to run clock and not shoot prior to 10 seconds left on shot clock...but in last night's game...no..time/score weren't relevant...

[wadesworld]

I take it you played the game...well said.  Mayo took all of 5 shots last night..had 4 assists...he wasn't playing me first/selfish ball.

As for Todd going to rack early in the shot clock in that situation - he had a good driving lane, and took what he saw the defense giving him/offensive opportunity.

There is no reason to play stall ball at the 3 minute mark in a 4 point game.  Waiting to go until the shot clock is down under 10 puts a hell of a lot more stress on the team to get a good look, than taking the first available good shoot/offensive opportunity.

Yes, time and score matter - if we were up 8 at the 3 minute mark...I could say better strategy would be to try to run clock and not shoot prior to 10 seconds left on shot clock...but in last night's game...no..time/score weren't relevant...

I get it.  He had an opportunity and he took it.  We also had a guy who had scored 9 straight points for our team, had fouled out 2 guys already, and who had shot 8 for 8 up to that point.  He hadn't miss.  Georgetown had absolutely no answer for him.  None.  Get him the ball.  Jamil understood this.  Derrick understood this.  Even Jake, who was hotter than he has ever been at Marquette, understood this.  Todd did not.  One play, we won the game, it can be forgiven.  But it was the wrong play to make even if he saw an opportunity.

[GGGG]

It may have been poor shot selection, but you put a scorer in that situation and he is going to look for that shot.  It wasn't *that* outrageous of a shot.

[NersEllenson]

I get it.  He had an opportunity and he took it.  We also had a guy who had scored 9 straight points for our team, had fouled out 2 guys already, and who had shot 8 for 8 up to that point.  He hadn't miss.  Georgetown had absolutely no answer for him.  None.  Get him the ball.  Jamil understood this.  Derrick understood this.  Even Jake, who was hotter than he has ever been at Marquette, understood this.  Todd did not.  One play, we won the game, it can be forgiven.  But it was the wrong play to make even if he saw an opportunity.

Well the game Jamil was having he had no business looking to score, and Derrick generally doesn't look to score as it is.

As you saw the last time we went to Davante..he missed on a virtual triple team...GTown was trying to shut him off prior to that point when Todd took the ball to the basket..because of the very point you make above...it was obvious Gardner was eating them up, and they took action to try to correct it...which gave Todd a good driving lane.

As I said, if we were up 8 at that point, and he took a shot at 25 second mark of shot clock..then I'd have more of an issue with it..but the game being as close as it was - believe 2 point margin at that time....you take the first available good shot/offensive opportunity...and Todd is a scoring guard..he's supposed to shoot the damn ball.

[Blackhat]

Wasn't outrageous in any manner... the paint was open for our top slasher, defender made a great play...Gardner missed on later possession...take what's there at the time.

[wadesworld]

Wasn't outrageous in any manner... the paint was open for our top slasher, defender made a great play...Gardner missed on later possession...take what's there at the time.

...to drop him to 90% field goal percentage on the game.  "Going to the well 1 time too many" (I know that wasn't you but it was referenced earlier in the thread) may be true, but I'm fairly certain if a guy finally misses on his 10th field goal attempt that going to the well 1 last time may not qualify as "1 time too many."

[NersEllenson]

...to drop him to 90% field goal percentage on the game.  "Going to the well 1 time too many" (I know that wasn't you but it was referenced earlier in the thread) may be true, but I'm fairly certain if a guy finally misses on his 10th field goal attempt that going to the well 1 last time may not qualify as "1 time too many."

Well at the time of the play you are so frustrated with...Mayo was 2 of 3 in the game...really not trying to bust your balls...but just find that Mayo is really quick to get labeled as "Bad Mayo," when the guy is one of our better players...and has provided many valuable contributions in games.  Early in the season, many were all over him for never passing...he does pass...and he assists at a higher rate than Vander did last year, or Jake Thomas this year...

He is also a shooting guard, that can get himself a shot off...and we need his skill set.  I'm not trying to compare him to Kobe...but sometimes shooting guards have to force the action...and take shots.  Feel all in all Todd has been pretty measured and selective all year.

[keefe]

It wasn't *that* outrageous of a shot.

I would argue it wasn't outrageous. Our top threat to drive seizes the opportunity Buzz wants him to seize.

What's crazy about this board is that it's a bunch of guys who never played major sports of any kind. Half will criticize a kid for doing something while the other half find fault for not doing something. I refrain from criticizing these players because I couldn't begin to do what they do on the court.

I was at Memorial Stadium as a 9 year old when a morbidly obese guy was screaming the most vile names at Paul Blair for not stretching a single into a double. Here was a guy who had been chain smoking for 5 innings and likely winded himself walking to the latrine criticizing an athlete for not running faster. It was a lesson that took hold.

[wadesworld]

I would argue it wasn't outrageous. Our top threat to drive seizes the opportunity Buzz wants him to seize.

What's crazy about this board is that it's a bunch of guys who never played major sports of any kind. Half will criticize a kid for doing something while the other half find fault for not doing something. I refrain from criticizing these players because I couldn't begin to do what they do on the court.

I was at Memorial Stadium as a 9 year old when a morbidly obese guy was screaming the most vile names at Paul Blair for not stretching a single into a double. Here was a guy who had been chain smoking for 5 innings and likely winded himself walking to the latrine criticizing an athlete for not running faster. It was a lesson that took hold.

But only for the athletes?  Unless you have coached basketball at the Division 1 level and had some success and I just don't know about it.  Because you sure aren't shy to criticize someone like Tom Crean or question how Oliver Purnell could have a job next season.  You can cut the "holier than thou" crap until you criticize nobody who is in a position that you have never been in.  I criticize the crap out of Tom Crean, but I'm not pretending to be the golden standard for when it's okay to criticize an athlete or a decision an athlete made.

[MUSF]

Mayo's plays at the end of the game weren't "outrageous" or "inexcusable" but they were not good and they hurt the team. Those types of plays is what gets Todd a seat on the bench, and deservedly so IMO.

It seems apparent at this point that Todd is going to do what he does regardless of the situation. He is going to look to score first. Sometimes that works out for him/us and sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't, it's bad and he needs to sit. Especially when other players like Jake and DG are playing well offensively. Todd's play LATE IN THE SECOND HALF (bolded so people don't start throwing out season and total game stats as a counter) was disruptive to our offense.

[NersEllenson]

Mayo's plays at the end of the game weren't "outrageous" or "inexcusable" but they were not good and they hurt the team. Those types of plays is what gets Todd a seat on the bench, and deservedly so IMO.

It seems apparent at this point that Todd is going to do what he does regardless of the situation. He is going to look to score first. Sometimes that works out for him/us and sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't, it's bad and he needs to sit. Especially when other players like Jake and DG are playing well offensively. Todd's play LATE IN THE SECOND HALF (bolded so people don't start throwing out season and total game stats as a counter) was disruptive to our offense.

So you really have an issue with the team's 3rd leading scorer and shooting guard taking 5 shots in 23 minutes, while he hands out 4 assists?

Have you not enjoyed winning 5 of the last 6 games - which also coincided with Todd's minutes being increased to 29 per game on average - although last night was down to 23...

Mayo is a key factor to this team's success and to suggest he's a liability out there just seems way to ready to "hate."

[MUSF]

So you really have an issue with the team's 3rd leading scorer and shooting guard taking 5 shots in 23 minutes, while he hands out 4 assists?

Have you not enjoyed winning 5 of the last 6 games - which also coincided with Todd's minutes being increased to 29 per game on average - although last night was down to 23...

Mayo is a key factor to this team's success and to suggest he's a liability out there just seems way to ready to "hate."

Again, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS TOTAL SHOTS AND ASSISTS! Late in the game he made poor decisions that hurt the team. I had a problem with his inability to adapt his game to the situation.

Yes I have enjoyed the last 5 of 6 games. I have also acknowledged that Todd has played well in those games.

Mayo can be a key factor to our success when he is playing well. We are certainly a much better team when he is playing well. However, when he plays like he did on a few possessions late in the game last night, he is a liability and needs to take a seat. He's a streaky scorer. Ride him when he's hot and sit him when he's not.

Ironically, I could substitute the name Derrick Wilson with Mayo in your last sentence to describe a large number of your posts this year.

[NersEllenson]

Again, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS TOTAL SHOTS AND ASSISTS! Late in the game he made poor decisions that hurt the team. I had a problem with his inability to adapt his game to the situation.

Yes I have enjoyed the last 5 of 6 games. I have also acknowledged that Todd has played well in those games.

Mayo can be a key factor to our success when he is playing well. We are certainly a much better team when he is playing well. However, when he plays like he did on a few possessions late in the game last night, he is a liability and needs to take a seat. He's a streaky scorer. Ride him when he's hot and sit him when he's not.

Ironically, I could substitute the name Derrick Wilson with Mayo in your last sentence to describe a large number of your posts this year.

I think its been shown by many posts and points in this thread that those weren't bad basketball plays by Todd...you can't have it both ways...and love how he single handedly put us on his back and got us to OT against Nova...and then go be critical of him and his decisions last night...

As for your last sentence, that's a fair point other than to say its a pretty big reach to say Derrick isn't a liability on the floor offensively...and I'm not sure how fair it is to say he's been a key factor to this year's team's success given his production as the leading minute getter on the team...

[GGGG]

you can't have it both ways...and love how he single handedly put us on his back and got us to OT against Nova...and then go be critical of him and his decisions last night...

Well of course he can.  Why not?

[NersEllenson]

Well of course he can.  Why not?

Because what Todd did last night, was essentially the same exact thing he did against Villanova.  It was nice to see that you too agreed his decisions last night weren't bad basketball plays.

[GGGG]

Because what Todd did last night, was essentially the same exact thing he did against Villanova. 

No.  He made the shots against Nova.

[MUSF]

I think its been shown by many posts and points in this thread that those weren't bad basketball plays by Todd...you can't have it both ways...and love how he single handedly put us on his back and got us to OT against Nova...and then go be critical of him and his decisions last night...

As for your last sentence, that's a fair point other than to say its a pretty big reach to say Derrick isn't a liability on the floor offensively...and I'm not sure how fair it is to say he's been a key factor to this year's team's success given his production as the leading minute getter on the team...

Yes, I can in fact have it both ways. Those plays last night might not have been bad basketball plays when viewed without context. They were bad plays for the specific situation. Again, Todd seems to have basically one setting - score first. Like any streaky scorer he can shoot you into games and shoot you out of them. So, ride him when he's hot and sit him when he's not.

I don't think it's a big reach to say that Derrick isn't an offensive liability. He can't shoot, but he does other things well.

[UticaBusBarn]

Had Todd made one of the two shoots, this thread would not even exist. His "sin" was he missed one, and was stripped once.

Obviously, on the strip, the opposing team has figured out by watching film, that he when he drives, he carries the ball low.

Anyway, this is the same guy who scored 10 points in 38 seconds against Villinova to put the game into overtime. He simply did not make them this time.

Relax all ....

[keefe]

 Because you sure aren't shy to criticize someone like Tom Crean or question how Oliver Purnell could have a job next season.  

I criticize Tom Crean because I met him and he is an insincere charlatan. My wife met him several times and she said he is the most self-serving, narcissistic boor she has ever dealt with. This from a woman who worked decades at Microsoft! But what my wife found most disturbing was how he mistreated people - that is those whom he deemed unworthy of his consideration. For years I held my observations to myself until I watched how he slithered out of Milwaukee without a single regard for anyone but himself.

Oliver Purnell? I could care less. He's getting paid millions to deliver results that have yet to happen.

If you cannot possibly comprehend the difference between critiquing the highly visible, easily measured strategic job performance of a CEO-level executive and the on-the-court performance of a teenager you are more fatuous than you appear.