Jerel McNeal

[keefe]

The same one who got us to a final four?

Was Dwyane Wade coaching that year?

[chapman]

I can never forgive Jerel for milking his wrist injury so he wouldn't have to be part of that Crean led debacle against Michigan State in the tournament.

Yes.  He clearly should have been practicing left-handed shooting from the time he got on campus rather than waiting until he had no choice and cramming it all into the few days leading up to the game since it wasn't good enough to convince Crean to let him suit up.  

[GGGG]

I think McNeal was certainly a better player/more successful while at MU than was Doc Rivers.  (I also think Damon Key and Tony Miller and Travis Diener were better players while at MU than was Rivers.)  

Of the basketball alumni who have not had their numbers retired, McNeal would probably be the top choice.  There probably should be a difference between getting your jersey honored and having it retired.  There are only 37 allowed numbers for basketball players.  We've already retired 9 of them.  Assuming you want to allow for 15 guys on the team (13 + 2 walk-ons), you can only retire 22 numbers.   So we can only retire 13 more numbers, so you have to be very selective.

The only other conceivable one would be Jim Chones.

But yeah, I agree about your thoughts regarding retired jerseys.  At some point you either recognize all that need to be recognized and realize that you are going to have to "unretire" certain jerseys, or you have to use more selective criteria.

So do I think Jerel "deserves" it based on who else is recognized?  Yes.  But would I be outraged if he doesn't get such recognition?  No.

[NavinRJohnson]

Yes.  He clearly should have been practicing left-handed shooting from the time he got on campus rather than waiting until he had no choice and cramming it all into the few days leading up to the game since it wasn't good enough to convince Crean to let him suit up.  

[APieperFan3]

Technically, MU doesn't retire numbers. They retire jerseys.

Tell that to George Thompson.

I think I remember him getting upset when Lazar wore #24 early in his career (before he switched to 32).

[Coleman]

Tell that to George Thompson.

I think I remember him getting upset when Lazar wore #24 early in his career (before he switched to 32).

Right, because MU doesn't retire numbers. They retire jerseys.

Lazar switched to placate George. But the reason it happened in the first place is that MU doesn't retire numbers.

[MUMBA]

Jerel remains one of my all time favorites.  Although I am not a huge fan of retiring numbers, I wish MU had some sort of "Ring of Honor" concept (NY Giants, for example, retire numbers for H.O.F.-caliber players but honor a handful of pro-bowlers and fan favorites each year).  Personally, I'd love to see a game where the Big 3 were honored at the half.  I'd shell out for tickets to that one.

As far as Jerel is concerned, I'd like to see him honored individually.  He was perhaps the god-father of the Marquette "toughness" brand.  He may not have any NBA minutes (which is a shame), but from what I understand his intensity in practice while at MU helped give rise to the toughness that NBA scouts seem to like about Marquette players.  He had a chip on his shoulder about being the least heralded of the Big 3.   I recall hearing stories about his intensity during defensive slide drills w/ Dominic and late night shooting sessions with Wesley.  

I think the recent MU players who did get some time in the NBA owe some gratitude to Jerel.  I'm still hoping he gets a bucket in the NBA.  Regardless of whether he does or not, he deserves to be remembered as an all-time MU great.

[rocket surgeon]

wow-tough call leaning towards retirement.  could they start making some other kind of mention/notarization in the rafters short of retiring the jersey?  because of the rule(rule 3 article 5b 2.0 as i understand it, there are only 32(includes 0 and 00) possible numbers that an be used.  let's say you have a recruit who's favorite/lucky number/idols number, etc.  is retired and cannot be used.  will that be a game changer in said recruit deciding to come to your school?  the more numbers one retires, it either stars to trivialize the accomplishments or one would think they would have more championship banners to go along with all those "stud" players.  however, kentucky has retired 33 players/numbers that are illegal according to the rule

[MarsupialMadness]

wow-tough call leaning towards retirement.  could they start making some other kind of mention/notarization in the rafters short of retiring the jersey?  because of the rule(rule 3 article 5b 2.0 as i understand it, there are only 32(includes 0 and 00) possible numbers that an be used.  let's say you have a recruit who's favorite/lucky number/idols number, etc.  is retired and cannot be used.  will that be a game changer in said recruit deciding to come to your school?  the more numbers one retires, it either stars to trivialize the accomplishments or one would think they would have more championship banners to go along with all those "stud" players.  however, kentucky has retired 33 players/numbers that are illegal according to the rule

Like said before, the numbers aren't retired... although I don't think anyone will be getting #3 anytime soon.

[willie warrior]

So if you look at the current list of retired jerseys for actual players, it seems like you have a few no-brainers.

#3 - Wade.  Didn't complete his degree, but well deserved on the basketball court.
#14 - Meminger
#15 - Lee
#31 - Ellis
#24 - Thompson


Then you have some that are a little marginal IMO - I am certainly not saying that these players are undeserving, but that they are a step behind those above:

#20 - Lucas.  Very good player, but didn't receive many national accolades. 
#31 - Rivers.  Yeah he was an all-American, but this seems more about retiring a number based on his post-MU career.
#43 - Tatum
#44 - Kojis.  Thowback to the pre-McGuire days so it is hard to judge.

I would think that McNeal's career at MU rises to any of these final four players. 

Don Kojis was not a step behind the others. Look up the guy's career rebound average--probably close to 15 And he was a great scorer at 6'5" He did play a long time ago--but would definitely be in the top 5 of MU players.
McNeal deserves consideration, and Tony Miller should also have his Jersey retired. Doubtful anybody will break his career assist record.

[MarquetteDano]

Never got retiring the number itself.  At Steve Taylor Jr.'s high school, Simeon, it is an honor to wear Ben Wilson's number (I believe 25) after he was tragically killed in the mid eighties.

You can retire the jersey but I like keeping the numbers available.

[chapman]

[/img]http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Joke-Goes-Over-Your-Head-Star-Trek-Gif.gif[/img]

I got it.  Just wanted to have some more fun wittit

[Badgerhater]

I wish MU had some sort of "Ring of Honor" concept (NY Giants, for example, retire numbers for H.O.F.-caliber players but honor a handful of pro-bowlers and fan favorites each year).  Personally, I'd love to see a game where the Big 3 were honored at the half.  I'd shell out for tickets to that one.

I think the Ring of Honor concept is already incorporated in the pre-game video of the chronology of all the greats of MU hoops.  The Three Amigos are rightfully in that video.

A final four appearance should be the required for any retired jersey candidate -- shows he either carried the team or made the team great.

[Coleman]

The only other conceivable one would be Jim Chones.

But yeah, I agree about your thoughts regarding retired jerseys.  At some point you either recognize all that need to be recognized and realize that you are going to have to "unretire" certain jerseys, or you have to use more selective criteria.

So do I think Jerel "deserves" it based on who else is recognized?  Yes.  But would I be outraged if he doesn't get such recognition?  No.

Chones, Sam Worthen, Tony Miller (1st in assists, 8th in points), Diener (6th in points, 3rd in assists, plus a Final Four), Dominic James (4th in points, 2nd in assists), Hayward (2nd in points, 5th in rebounds), ...all certainly in the same category as McNeal.

Add those and you have 16 retired Jerseys. Too many.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

... are probably 3 of the most important players to have ever donned an MU jersey.

What?

[ChicosBailBonds]

What I wouldn't do for two-thirds of a backcourt like that now.

Actually, even one-third of a backcourt like that.

+1

[ChicosBailBonds]

So if you look at the current list of retired jerseys for actual players, it seems like you have a few no-brainers.

#3 - Wade.  Didn't complete his degree, but well deserved on the basketball court.
#14 - Meminger
#15 - Lee
#31 - Ellis
#24 - Thompson


Then you have some that are a little marginal IMO - I am certainly not saying that these players are undeserving, but that they are a step behind those above:

#20 - Lucas.  Very good player, but didn't receive many national accolades. 
#31 - Rivers.  Yeah he was an all-American, but this seems more about retiring a number based on his post-MU career.
#43 - Tatum
#44 - Kojis.  Thowback to the pre-McGuire days so it is hard to judge.

I would think that McNeal's career at MU rises to any of these final four players. 

Kojis was an absolute stud statistically. I'm sure few of us saw him play, but I know Murff and others raved about him. Rebounding machine.

[ChicosBailBonds]

What?

I'm sure he means in terms of proving we could compete at the highest of highest levels after 20+ years of blah.  Many people said we had no chance in the Big East, including Rick Majerus.  Those players proved many a naysayer wrong and catapulted us to the current streak we are on.

Important can be defined many ways and timing is key part of that.   Just as I would argue Logtermann, Key, Mac, etc, where very important players for MU as well...we were very vulnerable as a program back then.

My two cents.

[keefe]

He was perhaps the god-father of the Marquette "toughness" brand.  

The Marquette Toughness Brand was launched when Goose Brell pulled out a switch blade to cut down the nets at The Garden.

[GGGG]

Kojis was an absolute stud statistically. I'm sure few of us saw him play, but I know Murff and others raved about him. Rebounding machine.

Alright, alright.  Sometimes its just too hard to judge players from different eras.  I'll consent on this even if that means I have to agree with Murff.

[keefe]

Does Murff post here anymore?

[77ncaachamps]

So playing in the NBA is part of your college jersey being retired?

Yeah, I was kidding.

If that was true, Tom Copa and Dwight Buycks deserve their jerseys retired.

It was mentioned before but here are the retired "numbers":
Dwyane Wade (3)
Don Kojis (44)
Doc Rivers (31)
George Thompson (24)
Maurice "Bo" Ellis (31)
Butch Lee (15)
Earl Tatum (43)
Dean Meminger (14)
Maurice Lucas (20)
Marquette has also retired numbers 77, 38, and 11, in honor of coach Al McGuire, trainer Bob Weingart and the Apollo 11 crew, respectively.

Jerel is definitely deserving but Chones needs to be first.

Others for consideration: Hayward, Diener, Wes, and Tony Smith.

[Aughnanure]

What?

As in they were the 3 freshman who led Marquette into the Big East and established our new brand in the Big East. The previous two years were bad, most people didn't think Marquette would even be much in the new league. But they finished 4th in their first year and I think the success under them has led to how Marquette is currently viewed in the basketball world by media and recruits. Those were 4 very important years for Marquette basketball and we exceeded all expectations.

[willie warrior]

Kojis was an absolute stud statistically. I'm sure few of us saw him play, but I know Murff and others raved about him. Rebounding machine.

Amen on Kojis. Did see him play when I was 10-12. Pretty long ago, and a different era, but definitely top 5 all time. Played for Hickey I believe. I looked him up on Wiki--they listed him at 6'3". Probably greatest MU rebounder of all time.

[willie warrior]

The Marquette Toughness Brand was launched when Goose Brell pulled out a switch blade to cut down the nets at The Garden.

Heard that before about Brell. was it true?

Man, those McGuire years were fantastic. Thompson, Tatum, Ellis, Chones, Toone, Lucas, Meminger, Lee, McNeil, Lackey, Brunkhorst, Neary, Rosie, Sewell, the Elevator Man, etc., etc.. And most were real characters, also.