Jerel McNeal

[keefe]

Heard that before about Brell. was it true?

Man, those McGuire years were fantastic. Thompson, Tatum, Ellis, Chones, Toone, Lucas, Meminger, Lee, McNeil, Lackey, Brunkhorst, Neary, Rosie, Sewell, the Elevator Man, etc., etc.. And most were real characters, also.

The Gary Brell story is dead ass correct. Every other net cutting in the history of college basketball has involved the use of the Trainer's athletic scissors. Only Marquette had a player use a switch blade. Al's teams were legendary.

[Archies Bat]

Chones, Sam Worthen, Tony Miller (1st in assists, 8th in points), Diener (6th in points, 3rd in assists, plus a Final Four), Dominic James (4th in points, 2nd in assists), Hayward (2nd in points, 5th in rebounds), ...all certainly in the same category as McNeal.

Add those and you have 16 retired Jerseys. Too many.

None of these names should be lumped with Jim Chones, IMHO.  They were good players, Chones was a clear notch above.

[Coleman]

None of these names should be lumped with Jim Chones, IMHO.  They were good players, Chones was a clear notch above.

Actually, I agree. Chones should be retired before McNeal, by most measures.

[GGGG]

Chones, Sam Worthen, Tony Miller (1st in assists, 8th in points), Diener (6th in points, 3rd in assists, plus a Final Four), Dominic James (4th in points, 2nd in assists), Hayward (2nd in points, 5th in rebounds), ...all certainly in the same category as McNeal.

I will agree with you on Chones.

But the rest of these I don't think rise to the level of McNeal.  But as I said, it wouldn't bother me if they recognize him...or they don't.

[keefe]

A final four appearance should be the required for any retired jersey candidate -- shows he either carried the team or made the team great.

That Barry Sanders really sucked. Guy never played in the Super Bowl

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think the Ring of Honor concept is already incorporated in the pre-game video of the chronology of all the greats of MU hoops.  The Three Amigos are rightfully in that video.

A final four appearance should be the required for any retired jersey candidate -- shows he either carried the team or made the team great.

Yikes.  Considering how much of a crap shoot it is, I would say no way.  Would you really not retire Shaq's number if he played for Marquette?  Pete Maravich?  David Robinson?  Tim Duncan?  So on and so forth

[MUSF]

I would be in favor of a system for honoring players and retiring numbers similar to UNC. MU may have to adjust criteria slightly but I like the model.

Here's UNC's criteria for retired numbers and honored jerseys according to Wikipedia:

To have his number retired, a player must win one of the six widely recognized player of the year awards.

To have his jersey honored, a player must have met one of the following criteria:
MVP of a National Championship-winning team
Member of a gold medal-winning Olympic team
First- or second-team All-America
ACC Player of the Year
NCAA Tournament MOP

UNC hangs all of the jerseys in the rafters with the retired numbers on top.

[keefe]

I would be in favor of a system for honoring players and retiring numbers similar to UNC. MU may have to adjust criteria slightly but I like the model.

Here's UNC's criteria for retired numbers and honored jerseys according to Wikipedia:

To have his number retired, a player must win one of the six widely recognized player of the year awards.

To have his jersey honored, a player must have met one of the following criteria:
MVP of a National Championship-winning team
Member of a gold medal-winning Olympic team
First- or second-team All-America
ACC Player of the Year
NCAA Tournament MOP

UNC hangs all of the jerseys in the rafters with the retired numbers on top.

Actually you bring up a great point. Marquette hasn't promulgated standards for the honor. If they have an award there needs to be definitive metrics in place.

[Archies Bat]

Actually you bring up a great point. Marquette hasn't promulgated standards for the honor. If they have an award their need to be definitive metrics in place.

Retire #12 now!

[willie warrior]

I will agree with you on Chones.

But the rest of these I don't think rise to the level of McNeal.  But as I said, it wouldn't bother me if they recognize him...or they don't.

I think Tony Miller does. He has a career assists mark that may never be broken.

[GooooMarquette]

I would be in favor of a system for honoring players and retiring numbers similar to UNC. MU may have to adjust criteria slightly but I like the model.

Here's UNC's criteria for retired numbers and honored jerseys according to Wikipedia:

To have his number retired, a player must win one of the six widely recognized player of the year awards.

To have his jersey honored, a player must have met one of the following criteria:
MVP of a National Championship-winning team
Member of a gold medal-winning Olympic team
First- or second-team All-America
ACC Player of the Year
NCAA Tournament MOP

UNC hangs all of the jerseys in the rafters with the retired numbers on top.

I like the idea of clear standards, and those seem pretty reasonable.  And since Jerel was a 2nd team AA, his jersey would be in the rafters if he'd played at UNC.

[MUWarrior11]

First of all, this is an excellent thread. The kind of thread that keeps me coming on Scoop to read up and hear opinions. Fun to see different viewpoints and consider both sides of argument.

I have only been an MU fan for the past decade, but my time at MU coincided with the Big 3. To me, the longer Jerel's "all time scoring leader" record stands, the better are his odds of getting his number/jersey retired. Furthermore, the biggest argument against him, in my opinion, is the fact that he never took us far in the tourney. At the end of the day retiring jerseys are for "legendary" players, and legends usually find a way to make some things happen in March. I see both sides of the argument.

Also love the idea that someone had of honoring the Big 3 at half time of a game. That would for sure generate a lot of interest from MU fans and would be a lot of fun.

[77ncaachamps]

Here's UNC's criteria for retired numbers and honored jerseys according to Wikipedia:

To have his number retired, a player must win one of the six widely recognized player of the year awards.

To have his jersey honored, a player must have met one of the following criteria:
MVP of a National Championship-winning team
Member of a gold medal-winning Olympic team
First- or second-team All-America
ACC Player of the Year
NCAA Tournament MOP

So does anyone want to do the work and see how MU's players (retired and non-retired jerseys) fit with this criteria?

[Coleman]

So does anyone want to do the work and see how MU's players (retired and non-retired jerseys) fit with this criteria?

Butch Lee is the only one that meets the criteria to have his number retired:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._men's_college_basketball_national_player_of_the_year_awards

[GGGG]

Butch Lee is the only one that meets the criteria to have his number retired:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._men's_college_basketball_national_player_of_the_year_awards

No....

Wade has been a member of a gold medal team and was All American first team.
Rivers was all American first team (AP)
Jae was Big East POY

[Coleman]

No....

Wade has been a member of a gold medal team and was All American first team.
Rivers was all American first team (AP)
Jae was Big East POY

Which places them in the 2nd group. Jersey retired. Not number retired. To get your number retired you must have won one of the six recognized player of the year awards....

MU has a fair amount of guys in that second group.

[MerrittsMustache]

To have his number retired, a player must win one of the six widely recognized player of the year awards.
#15 Butch Lee


To have his jersey honored, a player must have met one of the following criteria:
MVP of a National Championship-winning team
#15 Butch Lee (see above)

Member of a gold medal-winning Olympic team
#3 Dwyane Wade

First- or second-team All-America
#25 Ed Mullen
#10 Erwin Graf
#44 Don Kojis
#24 George Thompson
#14 Dean Meminger
#22 Jim Chones
#20 Maurice Lucas
#31 Bo Ellis
#43 Earl Tatum
#22 Lloyd Walton
#54 Jerome Whitehead
#31 Sam Worthen
#31 Doc Rivers
#3 Dwyane Wade
#22 Jerel McNeal
#32 Jae Crowder

Conference Player of the Year
#34 Jim McIlvaine
#3 Dwyane Wade
#32 Jae Crowder

NCAA Tournament MOP
#15 Butch Lee

[Coleman]

To have his number retired, a player must win one of the six widely recognized player of the year awards.
#15 Butch Lee


To have his jersey honored, a player must have met one of the following criteria:
MVP of a National Championship-winning team
#15 Butch Lee (see above)

Member of a gold medal-winning Olympic team
#3 Dwyane Wade

First- or second-team All-America
#25 Ed Mullen
#10 Erwin Graf
#44 Don Kojis
#24 George Thompson
#14 Dean Meminger
#22 Jim Chones
#20 Maurice Lucas
#31 Bo Ellis
#43 Earl Tatum
#22 Lloyd Walton
#54 Jerome Whitehead
#31 Sam Worthen
#31 Doc Rivers
#3 Dwyane Wade
#22 Jerel McNeal
#32 Jae Crowder

Conference Player of the Year
#34 Jim McIlvaine
#3 Dwyane Wade
#32 Jae Crowder

NCAA Tournament MOP
#15 Butch Lee

Well done

[🏀]

unnatural carnal knowledgeing stash stole my thunder.

[🏀]

To have his number retired, a player must win one of the six widely recognized player of the year awards.
#15 Butch Lee


To have his jersey honored, a player must have met one of the following criteria:
MVP of a National Championship-winning team
#15 Butch Lee (see above)

Member of a gold medal-winning Olympic team
#3 Dwyane Wade

First- or second-team All-America
#25 Ed Mullen
#10 Erwin Graf
#44 Don Kojis
#24 George Thompson
#14 Dean Meminger
#22 Jim Chones
#20 Maurice Lucas
#31 Bo Ellis
#43 Earl Tatum
#22 Lloyd Walton
#54 Jerome Whitehead
#31 Sam Worthen
#31 Doc Rivers
#3 Dwyane Wade
#22 Jerel McNeal
#32 Jae Crowder
[/b]
Conference Player of the Year
#34 Jim McIlvaine
#3 Dwyane Wade
#32 Jae Crowder

NCAA Tournament MOP
#15 Butch Lee

I could see those not crossed off staying retired or getting retired.

[mu-rara]

I am glad that MU is selective.  I will leave the qualifications to others.

I would hate to become the Boston Celtics of NCAA hoops.  At some point they will need to reuse those numbers.  Bob Ryan will go crazy.

[The Lens]

Right, because MU doesn't retire numbers. They retire jerseys.

Lazar switched to placate George. But the reason it happened in the first place is that MU doesn't retire numbers.

They (more like TC) had to placate a lot more people than George.  It was a petty, little move by a petty little man who wanted to put an old guy in his place.  Of course this was well after Al died.  TC would never have had to the balls to pull it off with McGuire alive.  MU never issued a number that hung from the rafters until TC tried getting cute with 24.  Lazar didn't even wear that number at ND Prep.  It was a prime example of the pettiness of Tom Crean.  All his love of MU history BS rang hollow with me because of stuff like that.  If you want to put Al on the jersey and Al on the court, deal with his old players.

[Bob "Big Daddy" Wild]

How has no-one brought up jerel as the all time leader in offensive fouls while running a two-on-one fast break? 

[The Lens]

How has no-one brought up jerel as the all time leader in offensive fouls while running a two-on-one fast break? 

He played in the wrong era...those are all blocking call now.   

[CTWarrior]

How has no-one brought up jerel as the all time leader in offensive fouls while running a two-on-one fast break? 

If you want to retire numbers for dubious achievements may I suggest Chris Grimm for most moving screens and Dan Fitzgerald for most "and 1" fouls?