Vander Blue/Deonte Burton freshman year stat lines

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Between struggling with what seem to be simple defense rotations, to trying to do everything offensively, I think you are seeing a guy who was poorly coached on a bad high school team.

But he had made strides and is going to be very good.  As this season moves on, the freshmen all look better and better to me.

Definitely. He is used to doing it all every game. I never watched him in person in HS, but I bet it was something to see.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Were you a role player on your team Merritt?  Get the feeling you must have been.  Or were you in the band?

I was in the band. Was on the pep band trading card in 2009 and 2010. What you trying to say?

[ATL MU Warrior]

Were you a role player on your team Merritt?  Get the feeling you must have been.  Or were you in the band?

Well gee Ners, why don't you grace us with your significant HS basketball accomplishments?  Must have been a STAR. 

[MerrittsMustache]

Were you a role player on your team Merritt?  Get the feeling you must have been.  Or were you in the band?

Actually, Ners, I was a 2-year starter on my varsity basketball team and was the team's leading scorer and rebounder as a senior and also set the school record for blocked shots in a season, while making 1st Team All-Conference. Although, I did mostly grunt work in the paint to get points so maybe that's why I have a soft spot for role players. In addition, I was a percussionist in the concert band.

Thanks for asking.

[NersEllenson]

Actually, Ners, I was a 2-year starter on my varsity basketball team and was the team's leading scorer and rebounder as a senior and also set the school record for blocked shots in a season, while making 1st Team All-Conference. Although, I did mostly grunt work in the paint to get points so maybe that's why I have a soft spot for role players. In addition, I was a percussionist in the concert band.

Thanks for asking.

Glad you can acknowledge that your continued support of Derrick stems from your personal bias of having a soft spot for role players.  I agree, Derrick is a role player, and a good one as a backup PG.

Congrats on your accomplishments in hoops.  We should get together for a game of one on one...though at 40 I'm not quite the player I was at 25....still feel pretty confident about my game!  I'm always up for a game against a good player.  You live in the MKE area?  Sounds like we could have a good game - even though I suspect you are 10 years younger...I'll bring my guitar too...and then we can have a jam session after the one on one game.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Glad you can acknowledge that your continued support of Derrick stems from your personal bias of having a soft spot for role players.  I agree, Derrick is a role player, and a good one as a backup PG.

Jaaayzus, seriously?  Challenging a guy over his HS playing time and then turning that into a chance to bash Derrick?  You've become an embarrassing parody.  

Thank you, Mods, for the ignore button. The site just "flows better" now.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Glad you can acknowledge that your continued support of Derrick stems from your personal bias of having a soft spot for role players. 

I can't speak for MM, but you do know that most of us think Derrick is average at best, and below average for a high major program right? We defend him because you and others have gone so far in your mantra that you flat out make up things about Derrick to prove your point. You discredit everything that a hardworking kid brings to this team. Derrick scores in double digits: "He can only hit layups." Derrick hits a jumper at the buzzer: "Lucky last second shot." Derrick gets 8 assists: "they are easy assists that any 8th grader could get." Derrick has one of the best +/- stats in a game: "It's a flawed stat, doesn't matter."

Give Derrick credit when it is due to him and try to not make everything about our PG situation and you wouldn't get the same reactions. Every single member of the board gives your favorites Dawson and Mayo the same treatment.

[Archies Bat]

Jaaayzus, seriously?  Challenging a guy over his HS playing time and then turning that into a chance to bash Derrick?  You've become an embarrassing parody.  

Thank you, Mods, for the ignore button. The site just "flows better" now.

My reading became much more pleasurable when I did the same.  Next, Ners may start insulting people's mothers if they say something positive about Derrick.

[tower912]

Jaaayzus, seriously?  Challenging a guy over his HS playing time and then turning that into a chance to bash Derrick?  You've become an embarrassing parody.  

Thank you, Mods, for the ignore button. The site just "flows better" now.

Yup.   My limit has been reached. 

[ATL MU Warrior]

Glad you can acknowledge that your continued support of Derrick stems from your personal bias of having a soft spot for role players.  I agree, Derrick is a role player, and a good one as a backup PG.

Congrats on your accomplishments in hoops.  We should get together for a game of one on one...though at 40 I'm not quite the player I was at 25....still feel pretty confident about my game!  I'm always up for a game against a good player.  You live in the MKE area?  Sounds like we could have a good game - even though I suspect you are 10 years younger...I'll bring my guitar too...and then we can have a jam session after the one on one game.

So, Ners.  What are your significant accomplishments in hoops that make you such an expert on all things MU basketball?  You keep throwing it out there as a challenge to others that have different opinions, but have never backed it up.  Now that someone you challenged has actually responded, it's put up or shut up time. 

What you got?  I'm guessing not much.  And I'm also guessing we will never hear it from you.

[leever]

Glad you can acknowledge that your continued support of Derrick stems from your personal bias of having a soft spot for role players.  I agree, Derrick is a role player, and a good one as a backup PG.

Congrats on your accomplishments in hoops.  We should get together for a game of one on one...though at 40 I'm not quite the player I was at 25....still feel pretty confident about my game!  I'm always up for a game against a good player.  You live in the MKE area?  Sounds like we could have a good game - even though I suspect you are 10 years younger...I'll bring my guitar too...and then we can have a jam session after the one on one game.

Do you practice foul shooting?  (Either way - now or way back when you were 25)

Are you "a big"?

Can you play Stairway to Heaven?

[ErickJD08]

Vander was not good his freshmen and sophomore year.  The majority of his shots were layups and he shot just around 40%.

He finally learned how to make a layup his junior year and then he felt he was ready for the pros. 

[Windyplayer]

Vander understood much better what Buzz wanted from a team defensive perspective than Deonte does.

Oh god. This "adhering to the gameplan" argument for PT is getting just as old as some others on this board.

[tower912]

Do you not watch the game or listen to Buzz?    Defense dictates PT.   Vander played defense before he could make much more than a lay up.  Ergo, he got early playing time.   

[MarsupialMadness]

Do you not watch the game or listen to Buzz?    Defense dictates PT.   Vander played defense before he could make much more than a lay up.  Ergo, he got early playing time.   

Right.  If you can't play defense, you can't be on the court for extended minutes.  So hard for some people to understand.

[tower912]

Right.  If you can't play defense, you can't be on the court for extended minutes.  So hard for some people to understand.

Unless you are Davante Gardner.    There are exceptions to every rule.   

[Windyplayer]

Do you not watch the game or listen to Buzz?    Defense dictates PT.   Vander played defense before he could make much more than a lay up.  Ergo, he got early playing time.    

I have to believe there are other factors that go into PT rather than just playing in the system. Yes, Vander was obviously an above average overall defender and that contributed to PT, but there must have been, there just must have been other factors that contributed to his PT--like a recruitment promise, or Buzz seeing offesnive prowess in practice and waiting to see it in games.

For guys like Sultan who are saying nobody here is in practice with these guys or has as much involvement with them as Buzz so everyone should keep their opinions to themselves, he seems awfully confident that PT is based on following a gameplan. So I'm guessing Sultan is now at practices, traveling with the team, and consulting with Buzz regularly.

[Windyplayer]

Right.  If you can't play defense, you can't be on the court for extended minutes.  So hard for some people to understand.

"Can't" play defense. What does that mean? Everyone can play defense on this team--and don't tell me Thomas is playing great defense or even D Wilson for that matter and that's what's responsible for their PT.

[MarsupialMadness]

"Can't" play defense. What does that mean? Everyone can play defense on this team--and don't tell me Thomas is playing great defense or even D Wilson for that matter and that's what's responsible for their PT.

Both Thomas and Wilson play great defense within the system that Buzz is running.  That's actually why they get PT over other options.  Buzz has said so himself.

[Windyplayer]

Both Thomas and Wilson play great defense within the system that Buzz is running.  That's actually why they get PT over other options.  Buzz has said so himself.

Fixed.

There are two separate arguments taking shape here: (1) PT is based on adhering to gameplan, and a more drilled down arugment in (2) PT is based on defense within the system.

I think both go into Buzz's decision-making, but are by no way conclusive in determining PT. Fact is, nobody knows, so to come off as if you know that they're determinative of PT is silly.

[Windyplayer]

Both Thomas and Wilson play great defense within the system that Buzz is running.  That's actually why they get PT over other options.  Buzz has said so himself.

Do you have an exerpt of Buzz saying this? I'm curious. Obviously, that's a trump card if you can provide it.

[jsglow]

For all you HS hoops stars, I got cut from my Frosh team. Now my thoughts on Derrick/Dawson. ...... 

[NersEllenson]

Oh god. This "adhering to the gameplan" argument for PT is getting just as old as some others on this board.

When grasping for straws to support an argument...that's all they've got.  Since the guys they feel are best suited for max minutes, really struggle to put the ball in the basket (which is clearly identifiable and measurable), you are left with crap like the above...or below..

Both Thomas and Wilson play great defense within the system that Buzz is running.  That's actually why they get PT over other options.  Buzz has said so himself.

And as for Buzz saying so himself....well what the hell else is Buzz going to say?  Pretty hard to justify starting and giving max minutes to a PG who has made 2, 3pt shots through 23 games into his junior season....and your starting "shooting guard" who has made 3, 2pt FGs through 23 games!!  Buzz hitched his wagon to Derrick and Jake this year, and has been completely reluctant to make changes...so he's going to support the decision and justify it in as obtuse fashion as he can.

[jesmu84]

When grasping for straws to support an argument...that's all they've got.  Since the guys they feel are best suited for max minutes, really struggle to put the ball in the basket (which is clearly identifiable and measurable), you are left with crap like the above...or below..

And as for Buzz saying so himself....well what the hell else is Buzz going to say?  Pretty hard to justify starting and giving max minutes to a PG who has made 2, 3pt shots through 23 games into his junior season....and your starting "shooting guard" who has made 3, 2pt FGs through 23 games!!  Buzz hitched his wagon to Derrick and Jake this year, and has been completely reluctant to make changes...so he's going to support the decision and justify it in as obtuse fashion as he can.

//http:////www.youtube.com/v/v3VCl3yBURs?version=3&hl=en_US

[GGGG]

I have to believe there are other factors that go into PT rather than just playing in the system. Yes, Vander was obviously an above average overall defender and that contributed to PT, but there must have been, there just must have been other factors that contributed to his PT--like a recruitment promise, or Buzz seeing offesnive prowess in practice and waiting to see it in games.

For guys like Sultan who are saying nobody here is in practice with these guys or has as much involvement with them as Buzz so everyone should keep their opinions to themselves, he seems awfully confident that PT is based on following a gameplan. So I'm guessing Sultan is now at practices, traveling with the team, and consulting with Buzz regularly.

Whoa...what?

Buzz's defense is extended and aggressive.  Players need to know how and when to rotate.  They need to know where help will be and push players accordingly.  For a freshman, Vander understood a lot of what Buzz wanted on the defensive end of the floor and that is why he played nearly 20+ mpg.  Offensively he was a mess.  Defense is why he was there.

This isn't news.  It was said as much at the time.  I remember reading comments about his defense from his Team USA coaches before he even got to Marquette.