Vander Blue/Deonte Burton freshman year stat lines

[mattyv1908]

Here's Vander Blue's stat line from his freshman season

mpg:  19
fg:  1.9
fga:  4.7
fgp:  39.4
ftp:  60.8
rb:  2.8
ast:  1.6
stl:  .9
blk:  .2
to:  1.4
pts:  5.1

Now here's Burton's stats so far through his freshman season.

mpg:  13.3
fg:  2.6
fga:  5.7
fgp:  45.5
ftp:  63.6
rb:  2.3
ast:  .6
stl:  1.2
blk:  .6
to:  .9
pts:  6.5

I think the only difference is that Vander had more talent around him his freshman year.  On a team like ours that has trouble filling up the basket I think Burton needs to continue taking shots.  He's the only guy on the team that can catch the ball up top and break his man down 1 on 1 every time.  Now if he could just see the better shot via the pass our offense would improve exponentially.  The only way that's going to happen is with playing time.  He's a rotational nightmare for opposing defenses as he gets guys out of rotation with his penetration.

[tower912]

He's the only guy who THINKS he can take his guy every time.   I love his fearlessness, but he does need to learn the difference between a good and bad shot. 

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

IMO, Burton is much better as a freshman than Vander was. Vander started every game, which I believe was the fulfillment of a recruiting promise.

[mattyv1908]

He's the only guy who THINKS he can take his guy every time.   I love his fearlessness, but he does need to learn the difference between a good and bad shot. 

I think it's a catch 22 considering their statlines indicate similar success at this point in their careers.  Did Vander log more minutes because his team had DJO, Crowder, Cadougan and Byucks who were a better team and could bail out the freshman?  Does Burton's obvious offensive contributions on a team who struggles to score for long stretches mean more minutes would benefit the team or hurt the team with his liabilities because he's not surrounded by the talent Blue had as a freshman?

I can't tell.  But I think his future is much brighter than Blue moving forward.

[MerrittsMustache]

IMO, Burton is much better as a freshman than Vander was. Vander started every game, which I believe was the fulfillment of a recruiting promise.

Blue started 12 of 37 games as a frosh.

[Nukem2]

He's the only guy who THINKS he can take his guy every time.   I love his fearlessness, but he does need to learn the difference between a good and bad shot. 

And, also, that he does not have to shoot every time he gets the ball...

[GGGG]

Blue started 12 of 37 games as a frosh.

Buzz:  "If you come to Marquette, I promise you Vander that you will start in over 30% of our games as a freshman."

[tower912]

  I understand Buzz's criticism of him.   He seems to think any shot he can possibly get off is by definition a good shot.    He needs to learn to use his right hand better and play better defense.   If he doesn't get the steal, he is getting beat.   

[GGGG]

He's the only guy who THINKS he can take his guy every time.   I love his fearlessness, but he does need to learn the difference between a good and bad shot.  

Between struggling with what seem to be simple defense rotations, to trying to do everything offensively, I think you are seeing a guy who was poorly coached on a bad high school team.

But he had made strides and is going to be very good.  As this season moves on, the freshmen all look better and better to me.

[Silkk the Shaka]

A better comparison, which I already brought up in another thread, is McNeal's sophomore year. Check out the efficiency #'s

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=jerel-mcneal&i=1&jerel-mcneal=2006-2007&p1=2-deonte-burton

Category: Burton, McNeal

I bolded the categories that jumped out the most to me in their similarity

ORtg: 98.0, 94.3
Points/40: 19.5, 19.45
EFG%: 45.8, 45.7
TS%: 48.7, 49.5
Shot%: 31.0, 29.5
OR%: 10.3, 6.4
DR%: 9.8, 11.7
A%: 10.1, 27.9
TO%: 15.0, 25.8
Steal%: 5.5, 5.1 (both ranked #8 in the nation)
Block%: 5.2, 2.0

Very similar in terms of their love of shooting (both lead/led the team easily in shot %) and EFG% (nearly identical). Also freaky similar in thier team-leading steal% stat. McNeal was a much better assist man, but also turned it over at a much higher rate. McNeal was also more of a threat from three. Although he didn't make a much higher %, from deep, he shot a lot more threes than Deonte (Burton stands at 4 for the season). Burton is a slightly better rebounder (would like to see his DR% higher than McNeal's) and better shot blocker. I think it's a much better comparison.

McNeal was able to increase his ORtg (bascially an amalgamation of all offensive efficiency stats) every year: 87.7, 93.7, 104.4, 108.6. If Deonte follows a similar trajectory in that respect as his usage rate inevitably goes up, considering he's starting at a much higher baseline level as a frosh (98.0 vs. 87.7), he will be a great GREAT player for us.

[Dawson Rental]

Here's Vander Blue's stat line from his freshman season

mpg:  19
fg:  1.9
fga:  4.7
fgp:  39.4
ftp:  60.8
rb:  2.8
ast:  1.6
stl:  .9
blk:  .2
to:  1.4
pts:  5.1

Now here's Burton's stats so far through his freshman season.

mpg:  13.3
fg:  2.6
fga:  5.7
fgp:  45.5
ftp:  63.6
rb:  2.3
ast:  .6
stl:  1.2
blk:  .6
to:  .9
pts:  6.5

I think the only difference is that Vander had more talent around him his freshman year.  On a team like ours that has trouble filling up the basket I think Burton needs to continue taking shots.  He's the only guy on the team that can catch the ball up top and break his man down 1 on 1 every time.  Now if he could just see the better shot via the pass our offense would improve exponentially.  The only way that's going to happen is with playing time.  He's a rotational nightmare for opposing defenses as he gets guys out of rotation with his penetration.

Another difference that I can think of is Vander came out of HS (and USA Basketball) with a reputation as a very good defender.

[GooooMarquette]

I love Deonte, and of the three frosh, expect him to get the most minutes going forward.  Error prone, but confident and explosive.

I think the biggest difference between Vander and Deonte as frosh is their defense.  Deonte gets a huge number of steals per minute, but he often gets them by taking chances...and getting burned when he misses the steal.  Vander's defense had a ways to go, but my recollection is that he was better at staying in front of his man and didn't get burned as often.

In any event, very excited to be seeing more of Deonte lately....

[GGGG]

I love Deonte, and of the three frosh, expect him to get the most minutes going forward.  Error prone, but confident and explosive.

I think the biggest difference between Vander and Deonte as frosh is their defense.  Deonte gets a huge number of steals per minute, but he often gets them by taking chances...and getting burned when he misses the steal.  Vander's defense had a ways to go, but my recollection is that he was better at staying in front of his man and didn't get burned as often.

In any event, very excited to be seeing more of Deonte lately....

Vander understood much better what Buzz wanted from a team defensive perspective than Deonte does.

[jesmu84]

I love Deonte, and of the three frosh, expect him to get the most minutes going forward.  Error prone, but confident and explosive.

I think the biggest difference between Vander and Deonte as frosh is their defense.  Deonte gets a huge number of steals per minute, but he often gets them by taking chances...and getting burned when he misses the steal.  Vander's defense had a ways to go, but my recollection is that he was better at staying in front of his man and didn't get burned as often.

In any event, very excited to be seeing more of Deonte lately....

I think the lineup last night worked defensively with Burton because you had the other 4 players on the court as some of our best defenders on the team. They helped make up for Burton's lapses. While he helped make up for their offensive shortcomings.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Vander understood much better what Buzz wanted from a team defensive perspective than Deonte does.

Ding ding ding

[willie warrior]

Vander understood much better what Buzz wanted from a team defensive perspective than Deonte does.

Agree with that. As I recall, Vander was considered pretty skilled as a defender on the 17 and under team he played on. So at this point he was ahead of Burton defensively. Now offensively, believe that Burton is several strides ahead
Vander could not finish at the rim his first 2 years, Burton can. And Burton will be a Beast down low over his career. Really, two different type players.

[CTWarrior]

I have very high hopes for what Burton will become.  Needs to be reigned in a bit, but I think he's going to be a very, very good one.

[brandx]

He's the only guy who THINKS he can take his guy every time.   I love his fearlessness, but he does need to learn the difference between a good and bad shot. 

I think he will learn, but he certainly brings the right attitude. He, Mayo and Gardner are the only guys who want to score on this team. Jamil just takes what they give him.

And you can't be a scorer unless you "want" to score. Sounds obvious, but from a lot of the comments here, I don't think a lot of people get it.

Love his aggressiveness and he will be a 16-18 point scorer for this team - maybe even by next year

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Buzz:  "If you come to Marquette, I promise you Vander that you will start in over 30% of our games as a freshman."

Because nobody makes starting promises, particularly after a previous commitment to another school.

IMO, as a freshman Vander had no business starting ANY games with Buycks and DJO on the roster. He was awful as a freshman.

[brandx]

Vander understood much better what Buzz wanted from a team defensive perspective than Deonte does.

+1

I don't think Deonte will ever be as good of an on ball defender as Vander, but he has that same knack as Jae for getting in the passing lanes.

[GGGG]

Because nobody makes starting promises, particularly after a previous commitment to another school.

IMO, as a freshman Vander had no business starting ANY games with Buycks and DJO on the roster. He was awful as a freshman.

Doesn't really matter since by the end of the year both Buycks and DJO played significantly more than Blue did.

[MerrittsMustache]

Because nobody makes starting promises, particularly after a previous commitment to another school.

IMO, as a freshman Vander had no business starting ANY games with Buycks and DJO on the roster. He was awful as a freshman.

DJO started 35 games and played 30 min/game. Buycks started 29 games and played 28 min/per. It wasn't like they were buried on the bench behind Vander, who oh by the way, wasn't "awful" as a frosh. Sure, he struggled offensively but his defense and hustle made him a very valuable contributor as a role player.

[brandx]

DJO started 35 games and played 30 min/game. Buycks started 29 games and played 28 min/per. It wasn't like they were buried on the bench behind Vander, who oh by the way, wasn't "awful" as a frosh. Sure, he struggled offensively but his defense and hustle made him a very valuable contributor as a role player.

+1.  I never knew he was awful either. Glad we have people here to let me know 

[NersEllenson]

DJO started 35 games and played 30 min/game. Buycks started 29 games and played 28 min/per. It wasn't like they were buried on the bench behind Vander, who oh by the way, wasn't "awful" as a frosh. Sure, he struggled offensively but his defense and hustle made him a very valuable contributor as a role player.

Were you a role player on your team Merritt?  Get the feeling you must have been.  Or were you in the band?

[CTWarrior]

+1.  I never knew he was awful either. Glad we have people here to let me know 

In February I had a bet with a fellow MU Grad for a game that if Vander so much as touched the ball on a possession, we would not score.  I gave him 2-1 odds.  After one game he would never do it again.  Vander was beyond awful the end of his freshman year.  He was so much better by the end of his junior year it easy to forget the growing pains.