Todd Mayo starting point guard rest of the season.

[GGGG]

Good win.  Buzz, please don't be afraid to trust Mayo at the point as he's your best facilitator, perimeter scorer, and ball handler under pressure.

Marquette loses to Georgetown, never pushes Villanova to OT, loses to Providence and still gets blown out by St. Johns without Mayo.  Like him or not, he's our best player moving forward down the stretch.

He just has to be more consistent.  

BTW, I will point out that of Derrick's 8 assists last night, 4 of them were makes by Mayo when MU was making its run.  Derrick wasn't exactly a bystander out there.

[MerrittsMustache]

Mayo's splits...

In 13 wins: 20.5 min, 10.8 points, 56.6% FG, 46.2% 3P, 83.7% FT, 2.5 reb, 1.8 assists, 1.3 TOs

In 8 losses*: 22.9 min, 7.5 points, 35% FG, 16% 3P, 73.7% FT, 1.9 reb, 1.1 assists, 2.5 TOs

*- MU was 0-2 without Mayo


In 5 BE wins: 24.6 min, 12.0 points, 61.3% FG, 54.5% 3P, 84.2% FT, 3.2 reb, 2.0 assists, 1.8 TOs

In 5 BE losses: 21.4 min, 6.8 points, 39.4% FG, 13.3% 3P, 66.7% FT, 0.8 reb, 1.2 assists, 2.0 TOs**

**-without the Nova explosion, these numbers are particularly dreadful.


Admittedly, I don't have the splits for anyone else, but it's probably safe to say that Mayo is the most important player on this team. As he goes, the team goes.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Good Todd is very good....bad Todd....

I'm not ripping the kid, but just like I said that we needed to temper our expectations for Dawson after the GTWN game, we also need to temper our expectations for Todd.

I hope it continues but until we get three or four games in a row of good Todd, I'm not ready t call him our savior.

[mattyv1908]

@TAMU

I do not want to start a Ners thread so I will be very careful with how I phrase my post.

We're easily 0-5 without Todd Mayo against Georgetown, Nova, Providence, St Johns and Butler.  It's not even close.

Your good Todd/bad Todd argument falls apart when you apply the same logic to the rest of our back court this year.


Good Wilson/Bad Wilson - Maybe smallest margin between the two but let's face it the ceiling is the lowest as well.
Good Dawson/Bad Dawson - He's a freshman who shouldn't be seeing the time he has if not for our issues with our starting PG.
Good Thomas/Bad Thomas - Even when he's scoring, the only way he can is by having someone find him when he's open.
Good JJJ/Bad JJJ - A bit of a mystery still as his injury limited some minute early in conference play.


Our only guy more consistent in the back court is Wilson who also has the least to offer.  I'll stand by my original statement.  Do I think Wilson should be benched?  Absolutely not as he should be playing 20-25 minutes a game.  All I'm saying is that our offense moves through it's sets just fine with Mayo up top and Buzz doesn't need to view the PG minutes/substitutions as simply a split between Wilson and Dawson.

Let's face it, for the simple fact that our team isn't great we're going to be playing a lot of close games.  I don't want Derrick Wilson anywhere near touching the ball if we have a 1-8 point lead with 2:00 to play in regulation for the simple fact that other teams can put a <50% free throw shooter on the line for 1 and 1 situations.  I also don't trust Dawson to make the right decisions come crunch time.  For that fact alone giving Mayo 6-8 minutes a game at the point throughout the first 30 minutes is worth it just so he can get a feel for it as the ball will be in his hands when it matters.

[PGsHeroes32]

@TAMU

I do not want to start a Ners thread so I will be very careful with how I phrase my post.

We're easily 0-5 without Todd Mayo against Georgetown, Nova, Providence, St Johns and Butler.  It's not even close.

Your good Todd/bad Todd argument falls apart when you apply the same logic to the rest of our back court this year.


Good Wilson/Bad Wilson - Maybe smallest margin between the two but let's face it the ceiling is the lowest as well.
Good Dawson/Bad Dawson - He's a freshman who shouldn't be seeing the time he has if not for our issues with our starting PG.
Good Thomas/Bad Thomas - Even when he's scoring, the only way he can is by having someone find him when he's open.
Good JJJ/Bad JJJ - A bit of a mystery still as his injury limited some minute early in conference play.


Our only guy more consistent in the back court is Wilson who also has the least to offer.  I'll stand by my original statement.  Do I think Wilson should be benched?  Absolutely not as he should be playing 20-25 minutes a game.  All I'm saying is that our offense moves through it's sets just fine with Mayo up top and Buzz doesn't need to view the PG minutes/substitutions as simply a split between Wilson and Dawson.

Let's face it, for the simple fact that our team isn't great we're going to be playing a lot of close games.  I don't want Derrick Wilson anywhere near touching the ball if we have a 1-8 point lead with 2:00 to play in regulation for the simple fact that other teams can put a <50% free throw shooter on the line for 1 and 1 situations.  I also don't trust Dawson to make the right decisions come crunch time.  For that fact alone giving Mayo 6-8 minutes a game at the point throughout the first 30 minutes is worth it just so he can get a feel for it as the ball will be in his hands when it matters.

Exactly Matty. The good Todd/bad Todd could be said for EVERY single guy on this team

Thing is Todd is really the only one who can consistently score if his shots and minutes are there. Bad Todd is almost always a result of turnovers. Just let the guy play and shoot. It is really out only chance to win games.

[Class71]

I expect after a major confidence boost and a smile on his face last night Todd is beginning to feel it internally. He will become more consistent and blossom further as a player as his confidence and leadership grows. I expect Buzz  knows that and will give him the minutes and the patience with a few dry spells along the way. We should be encouraged. Last night was a first step. The team has a leader. I expect them to follow his leadership and kick it up a notch. If Todd can do it, this team can do it too.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

@TAMU

I do not want to start a Ners thread so I will be very careful with how I phrase my post.

We're easily 0-5 without Todd Mayo against Georgetown, Nova, Providence, St Johns and Butler.  It's not even close.

Your good Todd/bad Todd argument falls apart when you apply the same logic to the rest of our back court this year.


Good Wilson/Bad Wilson - Maybe smallest margin between the two but let's face it the ceiling is the lowest as well.
Good Dawson/Bad Dawson - He's a freshman who shouldn't be seeing the time he has if not for our issues with our starting PG.
Good Thomas/Bad Thomas - Even when he's scoring, the only way he can is by having someone find him when he's open.
Good JJJ/Bad JJJ - A bit of a mystery still as his injury limited some minute early in conference play.


Our only guy more consistent in the back court is Wilson who also has the least to offer.  I'll stand by my original statement.  Do I think Wilson should be benched?  Absolutely not as he should be playing 20-25 minutes a game.  All I'm saying is that our offense moves through it's sets just fine with Mayo up top and Buzz doesn't need to view the PG minutes/substitutions as simply a split between Wilson and Dawson.

Let's face it, for the simple fact that our team isn't great we're going to be playing a lot of close games.  I don't want Derrick Wilson anywhere near touching the ball if we have a 1-8 point lead with 2:00 to play in regulation for the simple fact that other teams can put a <50% free throw shooter on the line for 1 and 1 situations.  I also don't trust Dawson to make the right decisions come crunch time.  For that fact alone giving Mayo 6-8 minutes a game at the point throughout the first 30 minutes is worth it just so he can get a feel for it as the ball will be in his hands when it matters.

All I said is I'm not crowning him our savior. Made no comment about playing time. I think his playing time should increase.

And no, the argument is not the same when you apply to the rest of the backcourt. Mayo's ceiling (last night's game) is higher than anyone else's in the backcourt. His floor (the St. John's game) is lower than anyone else's.

So again...good Todd is very good. Bad Todd is very bad. I hope that good Todd is here to stay.

[TJ]

FWIW it wasn't just tonight.  Todd has taken over the last two or three home games in the final 10 minutes.

He brings it in crunch time.

At home.

[jesmu84]

Before making him the point, I would like to see him penetrate and dish more. Let me know he can use his talent to make others better. Don't want him with the "shoot first" mantality knowing he's handling the ball majority of his playing time. The bigs will suffer.

Just so I understand one of the pervasive arguments on this board... When the frontcourt is dominating and scoring at will (georgetown game), our backcourt is bad and not doing enough. But when our backcourt has the ability to win a game (Todd last night), the bigs suffer.

Does everyone understand you go with what's working or go to where the mismatches are? That's how you win games.

[jesmu84]

Exactly Matty. The good Todd/bad Todd could be said for EVERY single guy on this team

Thing is Todd is really the only one who can consistently score if his shots and minutes are there. Bad Todd is almost always a result of turnovers. Just let the guy play and shoot. It is really out only chance to win games.

I thought the only chance to win games was replacing Derrick with Dawson? What happened to that end-all perspective?

[Sunbelt15]

Just so I understand one of the pervasive arguments on this board... When the frontcourt is dominating and scoring at will (georgetown game), our backcourt is bad and not doing enough. But when our backcourt has the ability to win a game (Todd last night), the bigs suffer.

Does everyone understand you go with what's working or go to where the mismatches are? That's how you win games.

Pervasive, because you "The Almighty" doesn't agree? Our bigs are the heart of this team. If you put a "shoot first" guard at point, playing big minutes, our bigs will suffer meaning their all-round numbers will go down because their paint touches will go down. Your responses are becoming a bit clownish. Stop advancing the extreme to support your argument.

[jesmu84]

Pervasive, because you "The Almighty" doesn't agree? Our bigs are the heart of this team. If you put a "shoot first" guard at point, playing big minutes, our bigs will suffer meaning their all-round numbers will go down because their paint touches will go down. Your responses are becoming a bit clownish. Stop advancing the extreme to support your argument.

Uh. What? I'm merely pointing out that people go nuts when the backcourt doesn't contribute enough (almost always because the frontcourt is dominating - like in the Georgetown game). As well, people go nuts when the backcourt scores too much (like when you said the "frontcourt will suffer") like in the Butler game.

I'm merely pointing out the fickleness of fans. Nothing seems to ever be good enough, especially this season. Buzz and our players are trying to contribute and score wherever they can and wherever the matchups dictate we will be the most successful.

I'm not advancing an extreme. Nor do I have any argument to support. I apologize if you felt insulted. It just seemed to be a complete 180 from how people felt after Georgetown.

Who cares how we score, or who contributes, or which part of the team is successful as long as we win? Isn't that the part that matters? If JJJ scores 50 and we win, is that bad because Gardner may only have 4 in the same game? I have never said our bigs weren't important. I have never said our frontcourt shouldn't be getting the ball. I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

Edit: Sunbelt - since I seem to not understand your viewpoint, would you care to inform me what you think my argument is?

[NersEllenson]

I thought the only chance to win games was replacing Derrick with Dawson? What happened to that end-all perspective?

It certainly would help...if Buzz made the move to Dawson.  You may also note numerous times that I've said Mayo should be a starter and getting max minutes...been saying that all year long...and basically throughout Todd's career..have always been bullish on Mayo - felt he could replace Vander's production from last year if given equal opportunity and minutes as Vander....hopefully moving forward he will...and we'll see Todd lead us to wins...even while being handicapped with an ineffective PG.

Saw it early on this season that it was going to be a struggle with Derrick at the PG...and nothing has changed my mind.  Certainly not his 8% on 3s, 35% on layups, and 46% on FTs and 5.0ppg average in 30 minutes.  Blows my mind the LOW standards some here have as to what they expect out of a 30 minute per game PG!  I'll promise you this...once Dawson gets 30 minutes per game in his MU career...his numbers will blow those of Derrick out of the water...suspect he'll quadruple his 3 pt shooting percentage, exceed his "layup" or 2pt FG shooting percentage by 5-7% and he'll shoot 30% better from the FT line, and will double..if not triple his 5ppg scoring average.

I can't even fathom if we have to sit through another year of Derrick getting 30 minutes a game next year...that will be the sh$ts.

[jesmu84]

It certainly would help...if Buzz made the move to Dawson.  You may also note numerous times that I've said Mayo should be a starter and getting max minutes...been saying that all year long...and basically throughout Todd's career..have always been bullish on Mayo - felt he could replace Vander's production from last year if given equal opportunity and minutes as Vander....hopefully moving forward he will...and we'll see Todd lead us to wins...even while being handicapped with an ineffective PG.

Saw it early on this season that it was going to be a struggle with Derrick at the PG...and nothing has changed my mind.  Certainly not his 8% on 3s, 35% on layups, and 46% on FTs and 5.0ppg average in 30 minutes.  Blows my mind the LOW standards some here have as to what they expect out of a 30 minute per game PG!  I'll promise you this...once Dawson gets 30 minutes per game in his MU career...his numbers will blow those of Derrick out of the water...suspect he'll quadruple his 3 pt shooting percentage, exceed his "layup" or 2pt FG shooting percentage by 5-7% and he'll shoot 30% better from the FT line, and will double..if not triple his 5ppg scoring average.

I can't even fathom if we have to sit through another year of Derrick getting 30 minutes a game next year...that will be the sh$ts.

Yea, after reading some of the analytic stuff posted here, I thought Mayo deserved more of a shot. I even thought he might be good as a PG paired with Jake (since I doubt Buzz is going to pull Jake and Derrick off the floor)

And, I agree on Dawson as well. Assuming he gets the minutes. He's clearly more talented and has way more potential/higher ceiling than Derrick

My point in my previous point was that, before last night, the big change that would "be our only chance to win games" was replacing Derrick with Dawson. Now, Mayo on the floor is the new topic.

You've been nothing but consistent in your message, Ners. And for that, I applaud you. Tough to do with people arguing with you left and right.

[NersEllenson]

Yea, after reading some of the analytic stuff posted here, I thought Mayo deserved more of a shot. I even thought he might be good as a PG paired with Jake (since I doubt Buzz is going to pull Jake and Derrick off the floor)

And, I agree on Dawson as well. Assuming he gets the minutes. He's clearly more talented and has way more potential/higher ceiling than Derrick

My point in my previous point was that, before last night, the big change that would "be our only chance to win games" was replacing Derrick with Dawson. Now, Mayo on the floor is the new topic.

You've been nothing but consistent in your message, Ners. And for that, I applaud you. Tough to do with people arguing with you left and right.

Thanks Jesmu84 - You seem to do a very good job being objective.  WE all have our biases of course.  There are just a standard 5 or so posters here who consistently disagree with me..which is totally fine and their prerogative.  Usually in the end, what I post on players and their ability/skill set ends up being pretty accurate.  The one exception was Vander - nothing in his first 2 years at MU led me to believe he'd be the player he turned out to be as a junior...and I mean nothing.  Probably the most startling jump in performance I've seen a player take in my recollection of watching MU hoops the last 25 years.

If Derrick can somehow take an exponential leap up, and lead this team to victory and the NCAA tourney, I'll be very happy for him personally...and as a fan of the program....will also be shocked.  Its going to take Herculean efforts from guys like Mayo and Burton to get us in the NCAA and win 8 of our next 9 games...so long as Buzz continues to roll with Derrick and Jake 25+.  We have to remember that was the last place team in the league on our home floor...and until the 10 minute mark..it looked like we were going to lose.

[Lennys Tap]

It certainly would help...if Buzz made the move to Dawson.  You may also note numerous times that I've said Mayo should be a starter and getting max minutes...been saying that all year long...and basically throughout Todd's career..have always been bullish on Mayo - felt he could replace Vander's production from last year if given equal opportunity and minutes as Vander....hopefully moving forward he will...and we'll see Todd lead us to wins...even while being handicapped with an ineffective PG.

Saw it early on this season that it was going to be a struggle with Derrick at the PG...and nothing has changed my mind.  Certainly not his 8% on 3s, 35% on layups, and 46% on FTs and 5.0ppg average in 30 minutes.  Blows my mind the LOW standards some here have as to what they expect out of a 30 minute per game PG!  I'll promise you this...once Dawson gets 30 minutes per game in his MU career...his numbers will blow those of Derrick out of the water...suspect he'll quadruple his 3 pt shooting percentage, exceed his "layup" or 2pt FG shooting percentage by 5-7% and he'll shoot 30% better from the FT line, and will double..if not triple his 5ppg scoring average.

I can't even fathom if we have to sit through another year of Derrick getting 30 minutes a game next year...that will be the sh$ts.

Derrick's 2 point shooting % is over 44% so I don't know where you pulled that "35% on lay ups" crap from.

I will agree on one thing though. I can't fathom how miserable things for everybody here (even those who agree with you) will be if Derrick plays big minutes next year. Not because of how he plays, but because of hundreds of repetitious posts that could have been summed up in one or two (at the most) paragraphs, multiple moratoriums instituted and broken, etc. That will be the sh$ts, alright.

[brandx]

Pervasive, because you "The Almighty" doesn't agree? Our bigs are the heart of this team. If you put a "shoot first" guard at point, playing big minutes, our bigs will suffer meaning their all-round numbers will go down because their paint touches will go down. Your responses are becoming a bit clownish. Stop advancing the extreme to support your argument.

I disagree. We have NOT been successful this year with the bigs as the 'heart' of this team. We've had a non-scoring backcourt (Derrick & Jake) for the most part and have not been successful - the 'bigs' have not taken over games (except for Davante). A 'shoot-first' PG may be exactly what this team needs as we all realize this is a very offensively challenged team.

[cheebs09]

Before making him the point, I would like to see him penetrate and dish more. Let me know he can use his talent to make others better. Don't want him with the "shoot first" mantality knowing he's handling the ball majority of his playing time. The bigs will suffer.

To be fair, I think I saw him have a few drive and dishes. The problem was they were to Derrick who wasn't going to take the shot, no matter how open he was. That raises the question if Todd's drive actually got Derrick open, or the defense sagging caused him to be open. Either way, he was making that pass.

[NersEllenson]

Derrick's 2 point shooting % is over 44% so I don't know where you pulled that "35% on lay ups" crap from.

I will agree on one thing though. I can't fathom how miserable things for everybody here (even those who agree with you) will be if Derrick plays big minutes next year. Not because of how he plays, but because of hundreds of repetitious posts that could have been summed up in one or two (at the most) paragraphs, multiple moratoriums instituted and broken, etc. That will be the sh$ts, alright.

My bad - his FG% (layup percentage) is 40.5% not 35%...we all know Derrick's taken about 8 midrange jumpers this year...thus I call it his layup percentage.  Not sure where you pulled that 44% from?  

Hopefully we won't have to deal with more of 30 minutes of Derrick next year...yet I'm sure his play will prove my point as its continued to prove - he's a backup caliber PG at this level.  Nothing about his numbers suggests he should be getting 30 minutes per game.  Hopefully Dawson or Duane (don't care which one) will be given at least 20 minutes per game of PG time next year..

[Lennys Tap]

My bad - his FG% (layup percentage) is 40.5% not 35%...we all know Derrick's taken about 8 midrange jumpers this year...thus I call it his layup percentage.  Not sure where you pulled that 44% from?  

Derrick has taken 116 shots. 12 of them are 3 point shots. So, 104 2 point attempts. He has made 47 shots. 1 of them was a 3 point shot. So, 46 2 point makes. 46 (2s made) divided by 104 (2s attempted) = .442. .442 = 44.2% of 2 point shots (or lay ups, as you call them) made. That's where the 44% was "pulled from". Now, where did you pull that 40.5 or that 35 from?

[ATL MU Warrior]

Derrick has taken 116 shots. 12 of them are 3 point shots. So, 104 2 point attempts. He has made 47 shots. 1 of them was a 3 point shot. So, 46 2 point makes. 46 (2s made) divided by 104 (2s attempted) = .442. .442 = 44.2% of 2 point shots (or lay ups, as you call them) made. That's where the 44% was "pulled from". Now, where did you pull that 40.5 or that 35 from?

He was too busy being an all-universe basketball talent to study the maths.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I will take a permanent ban from posting if Ners will quit talking about Derrick.

I'm not kidding.

[reinko]

MUBB Mad lib time!

(Insert MU guard) has an eye for the rim, creates space between him and the defender, he explodes to the basket, and finishes strong.


(Insert MU guard) makes layups.

[bilsu]

I did not bother to read all the prior posts. However, saying Mayo should start at point based on the Butler game ignores one big fact. Mayo was simply too quick for the Butler bigmen to stop him from getting to the hoop. The prior game Mayo was horrible. The reason being that St. John's is much quicker and more athletic than Butler. Butler was simply a good match up for Mayo.

[MerrittsMustache]

Derrick has taken 116 shots. 12 of them are 3 point shots. So, 104 2 point attempts. He has made 47 shots. 1 of them was a 3 point shot. So, 46 2 point makes. 46 (2s made) divided by 104 (2s attempted) = .442. .442 = 44.2% of 2 point shots (or lay ups, as you call them) made. That's where the 44% was "pulled from". Now, where did you pull that 40.5 or that 35 from?

Similar to how Ners credits Dawson with misses that were "right on" and discounts Derrick's assists as being 8th grade caliber, he also discounts a few of Derrick's makes as being too easy while counting shots Derrick should have taken and would have missed. Running those numbers, I actually get 34.8%. It's pretty basic.