Gardner could not guard a waste basket!

[mu72warrior]

Without a doubt we need his scoring talent, but he looks clueless most of the time on defense.

[MU82]

Even if this is true, it seems odd to be ripping Gardner given all that happened yesterday.

[mu72warrior]

part of what happened yesterday was his defense,

[willie warrior]

Wrongo.

When your Lock down Point Guard is getting his ass kicked off the dribble, this created defensive breakdowns that Gardner and other bigs have to absorb.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Excellent point.  De Wilson's defense is terrible this year.  It's still difficult to understand why Dawson doesn't play at least 30 minutes and De Wilson 10 minutes.  Dawson is clearly a much better player.  Along the same line, Taylor should play at least 30 minutes and Otule 10 or less minutes. 

[Dawson Rental]

Totally untrue.  Guarded by Gardner, a wastebasket couldn't even get the ball out of itself without help.

[BallBoy]

part of what happened yesterday was his defense,

This ties back to a lot of what I have tried to articulate with Wilson.  The team has a lot of holes throughout so you can't blame one person.  I don't share the same level of animosity but Gardner does get exposed in this area.

Gardner is a very good and skilled offensive player but we can all agree that he is not the most athletic, hence his below the rim style of play.  ON Defense, he is a close to the basket post, space taking, player.  When Gardner needs to guard on the perimeter we take him out of his comfort zone.  When we play a team that has an athletic 4 that plays the perimeter, Gardner is a liability on defense.  When Gardner plays the 5, this liability is limited because most opposing centers are not known to be lights out 3pt shooters.  

When we play the Oxtule lineup, Gardner plays the 4 while Otule plays the 5.   We are now putting Gardner into a weaker position because he has to play a more athletic lineup defensively and offensively we just create spacing issue as Otule is not an outside the lane player.  

The return of Taylor, I believe, has helped resolve this challenge to a certain degree.  We have shown vastly superior offensive output since his extended return.  Taylor now plays with both Otule and Gardner.  When he plays he can take the more athletic 4 on defense while allowing Gardner or Otule to play the 5.  He can also step out to 15 ft and hit a jumper. Taylor is still not 100% but as he gets healthier we will see him more.  I think with his return our offense will be better as you won't have either two guys contending for the same spot or pushing Gardner away from his strength.

[chapman]

Wrongo.

When your Lock down Point Guard is getting his ass kicked off the dribble, this created defensive breakdowns that Gardner and other bigs have to absorb.

Yep...Gardner's guy had five points, at least when we weren't making him guard a guard by putting Otule out there with him.  Yet we expect him to also guard the quick guards that made ours look foolish, while also exerting everything he had on the offensive end to score 29 without committing a turnover, which was necessary to keep pace because our starting guards were outscored 40-6?  Let's just ask the guy to cure cancer instead of wearing the biggest pink shirt to raise awareness for it.

[BallBoy]

Wrongo.

When your Lock down Point Guard is getting his ass kicked off the dribble, this created defensive breakdowns that Gardner and other bigs have to absorb.

In OT, the part that cost us the game, it was our 2G who was getting his ass kicked off the dribble.  I do not subscribe to the DWilson is a lock down defender club but at least call out the right player.  

Villanova played a 4 guard lineup and when Gardner played the 4 he had challenges playing an athletic guard.  This is what Buzz is trying balance across the entire team.  Each player helps and hurts at the same time. 

[ATL MU Warrior]

Yep...Gardner's guy had five points, at least when we weren't making him guard a guard by putting Otule out there with him.  Yet we expect him to also guard the quick guards that made ours look foolish, while also exerting everything he had on the offensive end to score 29 without committing a turnover, which was necessary to keep pace because our starting guards were outscored 40-6?  Let's just ask the guy to cure cancer instead of wearing the biggest pink shirt to raise awareness for it.

What???  Who was Gardner's "guy"?  Ochefu?  Who was Gardner's "guy" for the 13 minutes he played when Ochefu wasn't even in the game?  Hell, Chris probably guarded Ochefu for some of his 16 minutes...who was Gardner's "guy" then?  It's not nearly as simple as looking up the other team's center in the box score.    

Let's face it.  Gardner is great on offense and a liability on defense.  Watching him try to guard a pick and roll is just brutal.  His help defense is non-existent.  He was put in a terrible position yesterday both by Buzz (he shouldn't be asked to guard anybody on the perimeter) and by the failure of our guards to prevent penetration.  

That being said, this team would be just awful without him.  

He is this team in a microcosm.  Good (in his case great) at one thing and pretty pedestrian/poor at everything else.  That's why this team struggles.  And there are no easy fixes with this roster...otherwise Buzz would have figured it out by now (at least based on history).  

[willie warrior]

In OT, the part that cost us the game, it was our 2G who was getting his ass kicked off the dribble.  I do not subscribe to the DWilson is a lock down defender club but at least call out the right player.  

Villanova played a 4 guard lineup and when Gardner played the 4 he had challenges playing an athletic guard.  This is what Buzz is trying balance across the entire team.  Each player helps and hurts at the same time. 

Wilson was moved off the kid because he could not handle him. And guess what--the guy he was guarding beat his ass down the floor to hit what could have been the game winner. I am calling out the right guy, sunshine.

He is not a lock down defender, he is not a game changer--he is a competent back up PG.

[UticaBusBarn]

If Gardner is not good at guarding the 4, but is adequate at guarding the 5, then one might ask, what type of coach would have him defend the 4? Would logic not dictate that the defense scheme have Gardner guard the 5?

It might be well to remember that the Warriors could have won yesterday. It strikes me that most of the post game chat is based on the premise that the best 5 are not on the floor together.

Personally, I think Coach Williams, in his effort to reward his hard working practice players, may actually be doing a disservice to some of them.

For example, D. Wilson was gassed at the end of the game. His legs were gone. Chennault blew right past him at the end of regulation. It is obvious Derrick can go hard, and play lock-down defense when he plays 15-20 minutes a game, as he did his first two years. It is just as obvious, because of the intensity with which has to play to over-come certain physical limitations, that he cannot keep up the high quality defense for 35 minutes.

The key to any team is making the whole more than the sum of its parts.

I do not think it fair to the young man, the team, or the fans, to ask something of a player, no matter how willing he may be, that the player cannot do.

[Milwarriorkee]

I think that when a player is so obviously abysmal on offense, some on this board attempt to perpetuate the myth that those players are good defenders. Derrick is not a good defender. Juan is not a good defender.

The last play of regulation was just about the worst example of one on one defending I have ever seen. Derrick gives up the sideline, does not turn his man once, gives up the baseline and gives up what should have been the game winner (but for a bad call by the ref). This was done in what, four seconds?

Those who act like we would be worse off on defense with Dawson are just wrong. Maybe Derrick is a better rebounder, that's about it.

To claim otherwise, you must be related to DW. Or you are Buzz.

[rocky_warrior]

It is obvious Derrick can go hard, and play lock-down defense when he plays 15-20 minutes a game, as he did his first two years. It is just as obvious, because of the intensity with which has to play to over-come certain physical limitations, that he cannot keep up the high quality defense for 35 minutes.

This I mostly agree with, though I still call him a good (but not great) defender.  @ Butler he seemed to be fine on defense until he had played about 25min.  And then his guy just started going around him with ease. 

[PGsHeroes32]

Hahahahaha Davante goes for 29 and 13

Todd puts up 10 pts in about a minute

Ball boy and AtL still go to extreme lengths to defend Derrick freaking Wilson and call out our two best players.

Please tell me you two are trolls.

[77ncaachamps]

Gardner had a great offensive outing but I'm not going to rip his defense because 1) I kow he's an average defender, 2) he's slow and not that tall (his girth makes up for some of it though), and 3) Nova's frontcourt didn't roast us, their backcourt did.

[BallBoy]

If Gardner is not good at guarding the 4, but is adequate at guarding the 5, then one might ask, what type of coach would have him defend the 4? Would logic not dictate that the defense scheme have Gardner guard the 5?

These are the types of decisions that coaches have to make every game.  Those decisions occur happen in everyone's job.  

When you look at MU's line up, you have to look at how each piece is going to impact the next.  If Buzz doesn't play Gardner we lose his offense.  Not good.  So he starts to move players to different spots.  An outcome of that is getting more offense but your defense suffers.  In some cases you really don't have an option because you don't have a better option.  If we play Gardner exclusively at the five that means we have (prior to Taylor) to play Jamil, Juan or someone else at the 4.   Maybe Jamil is the best at the three.  Not playing Gardner means you lose a major cog of your offense.  

At the end, you want to have a team that is balanced enough to score points but not giving up points every time.  Or you need a team that is so offensively loaded they can outscore the other team.

[BallBoy]

Ball boy and AtL still go to extreme lengths to defend Derrick freaking Wilson and call out our two best players.

You have not been paying attention to a single thing I have said.  I have not stated ever than Derrick Wilson is without fault.  I have said he is best option that position.  I will also say Gardner is not without fault but he is also our best option.  My contention from day one has always been you cannot blame/praise one player for the team output which you and Ners constantly do.  If we won at GU it must have been Dawson.  If we lose it must be Wilson.  I have been defending Wilson only as your scapegoat.  The fact remains in 9 of our games we still would have lost with or without him.  If that is the case then he can't be the only problem. 

Our best offensive player, Gardner, has his own defensive weaknesses.  Do you agree with that statement?  If not then you are blind or unwilling to face facts.   

I will go on record right now that I am willing to overlook Gardner's defensive issues because he is our best option on offense.  I have to take the bad with the good.  Same with Wilson, JWilson, Mayo, Thomas, Taylor, Otule, Juan, JJJ, Dawson, et al because those are my options.  If I could replace the entire team with Wade, Diener, Noack, et all, I would but their eligibility is up.

[Nevada233]

Excellent point.  De Wilson's defense is terrible this year.  It's still difficult to understand why Dawson doesn't play at least 30 minutes and De Wilson 10 minutes.  Dawson is clearly a much better player.  Along the same line, Taylor should play at least 30 minutes and Otule 10 or less minutes.  

Agreed....

Dawson comes down hits a 3 from the parking lot......

The announcer says we are watchin this kid devlop in front of our eyes...

The crowd goes wild.... 2 minutes later hes on the bench for literally the rest of the game....

While archiediacono runs around the starter like pistol pete...

[ATL MU Warrior]

Hahahahaha Davante goes for 29 and 13

Todd puts up 10 pts in about a minute

Ball boy and AtL still go to extreme lengths to defend Derrick freaking Wilson and call out our two best players.

Please tell me you two are trolls.

Oh brother.

I am not "calling out" Gardner.  I haven't mentioned Todd once.  

Gardner had a good game - on offense - which is the only kind of good game he can have.  He leaves a lot to be desired on defense.   It is what it is, and is an example of what is wrong with this team.

Are you seriously suggesting that Gardner is good on defense?

[Goose]

I would accept his lack of defense if it appeared he was working hard at it. The kid is highly skilled in many areas, but is MIA on D. I find it funny that our young guys and Todd do not get more minutes because of lack of D and the worst defender plays big minutes.

I do not buy that the young guys are not playing because of being liability on D. I stick with Buzz being stubborn and playing guys who are not high D1 players. Coach can what he wants, but very frustrating to watch.

[willie warrior]

This I mostly agree with, though I still call him a good (but not great) defender.  @ Butler he seemed to be fine on defense until he had played about 25min.  And then his guy just started going around him with ease. 

Yes you guys are on to something there. It also makes sense that some of Gardner's "Defensive lapses", are caused by him getting gassed also, carrying around 280 pounds for 35 plus minutes per game, helping out when guards are getting beat to the basket, and chasing on the perimeter on switches--which is stupid. I know, every other team does it so we should. So if we want to make excuses for Derrick, then those excuses should be more applicable for Ox, who is the heaviest guy on the team.

It is tiring that some people blame Ox as a poor defender, but praise Derrick as a "lock down" defender, or say nothing about Ja. Wilson's ole defense. Ox is average as a defender, but has shown more improvement in his game on both ends of the court than Otule has in 6 years, or Ja. Wilson in 5 years. And what is funny, I have never heard Buzz claim that Ox is a "game changer" or the best defender he has ever coached, which he has said about De. Wilson, and then we see what he is doing in games.

[PGsHeroes32]

You have not been paying attention to a single thing I have said.  I have not stated ever than Derrick Wilson is without fault.  I have said he is best option that position.  I will also say Gardner is not without fault but he is also our best option.  My contention from day one has always been you cannot blame/praise one player for the team output which you and Ners constantly do.  If we won at GU it must have been Dawson.  If we lose it must be Wilson.  I have been defending Wilson only as your scapegoat.  The fact remains in 9 of our games we still would have lost with or without him.  If that is the case then he can't be the only problem. 

Our best offensive player, Gardner, has his own defensive weaknesses.  Do you agree with that statement?  If not then you are blind or unwilling to face facts.   

I will go on record right now that I am willing to overlook Gardner's defensive issues because he is our best option on offense.  I have to take the bad with the good.  Same with Wilson, JWilson, Mayo, Thomas, Taylor, Otule, Juan, JJJ, Dawson, et al because those are my options.  If I could replace the entire team with Wade, Diener, Noack, et all, I would but their eligibility is up.

Blame 1 player? I think Juan, Chris, Jake and Derrick all suck. And I'm being nice and objective when I say suck.

It's actually mind blowing Chris and Juan even play in games. Jake and Derrick wouldn't "suck" if used properly(not as starters).

[ATL MU Warrior]

I would accept his lack of defense if it appeared he was working hard at it. The kid is highly skilled in many areas, but is MIA on D. I find it funny that our young guys and Todd do not get more minutes because of lack of D and the worst defender plays big minutes.

I do not buy that the young guys are not playing because of being liability on D. I stick with Buzz being stubborn and playing guys who are not high D1 players. Coach can what he wants, but very frustrating to watch.

The young guys don't play because they aren't yet consistently doing what Buzz wants them to do.  Sometimes it's defense.  Sometimes it's jacking up bad shots. 

[PGsHeroes32]

The young guys don't play because they aren't yet consistently doing what Buzz wants them to do.  Sometimes it's defense.  Sometimes it's jacking up bad shots. 

Ok then what the hell is wrong with buzz?

Derrick, Jake and Chris are doing what buzz wants? THIS is what he wants?