Milwaukee In Decline?

[keefe]

I recalled this article from The Atlantic Monthly last year. How accurate is this? Reads like Dickens.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/12/free-falling-in-milwaukee-a-close-up-on-one-citys-middle-class-decline/250100/

[🏀]

Replace Milwaukee with America, yeah?

[keefe]

Replace Milwaukee with America, yeah?

When did this begin? About 5 years ago?

[ChicosBailBonds]

When did this begin? About 5 years ago?

1965

[keefe]

1965

Great Society

[GGGG]

The biggest reason for the decline of the middle class in Milwaukee?  The Milwaukee Public Schools.

My wife grew up in Milwaukee...and not a single one of her close classmates from high school still live there.  They live in Oak Creek, Waukesha, Oconomowoc, etc.  The reason has almost entirely to do with the Milwaukee Public Schools.

Now that I only have a couple years to go until my youngest is off to college, if life ever brought me back to Milwaukee, I have no doubts that we would actually live in the city itself.  There are still a lot of great neighborhoods that are relatively close to everything.  And it's cheaper than the suburbs.

[4everwarriors]

Property taxes in Milwaukee are far > suburbs.

[GGGG]

Let me also add that while the "general manufacturing" jobs of the past are indeed gone, there is still a need for "skilled" blue collar labor in Milwaukee.  

Simply put, there are options for those who get through high school and beyond.  You don't need a four year degree to make a nice living in Milwaukee.

http://www.jsonline.com/business/skilled-trades-prepare-to-battle-looming-shortages-of-workers-2m796ah-176114351.html

[GGGG]

Property taxes in Milwaukee are far > suburbs.

But is that because of a difference in valuations?  For instance, if I owned a house in Milwaukee...or the same exact house in New Berlin, I know that the *rate* would be higher in Milwaukee.  But would the actual $$$ be higher as well?

[4everwarriors]

Maybe someone who actually has the figures can post. My recollection is that it's not even close. Milwaukee County's rate is outrageous.

[hairy worthen]

But is that because of a difference in valuations?  For instance, if I owned a house in Milwaukee...or the same exact house in New Berlin, I know that the *rate* would be higher in Milwaukee.  But would the actual $$$ be higher as well?

too lazy to look up the numbers, but just my observations from talking to people I know, My taxes in Delafield are the same as someone living in Milwaukee with a house about the third of the value.  West Milwaukee has the highest tax rate of all.

Many cities have similar issues, I have no idea why they chose Milwaukee to write about and then take pictures of the worst parts of town to make it look like East Berlin. Sultan you are correct, many people flee the city because of the crappy schools.

[mu03eng]

But is that because of a difference in valuations?  For instance, if I owned a house in Milwaukee...or the same exact house in New Berlin, I know that the *rate* would be higher in Milwaukee.  But would the actual $$$ be higher as well?

Yes...City of Milwaukee and Milwaukee County are insanely more expensive.  Same house in Franklin vs New Berlin is about a $2000 delta per year.  City of Milwaukee is worse.  Additionally, MPS spends a metric ton of money per pupil

http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/mps-wisconsin-rank-high-in-per-pupil-spending-b9915750z1-208377331.html

[BrewCity83]

Right, it's mostly Milwaukee County with the high tax rates.  The valuations in the city are relatively low compared to the suburbs, but the tax rates are WAY higher in Milw. Co.

[Freeport Warrior]

Maybe someone who actually has the figures can post. My recollection is that it's not even close. Milwaukee County's rate is outrageous.

We were just talking about this at work. One of my employees lives in Bay View (the new "it" place in Milwaukee County for the young crowd) and pays $5,000 taxes for a house somewhere around 180k. In Brookfield, it would be around $3,000.

[Hards Alumni]

We were just talking about this at work. One of my employees lives in Bay View (the new "it" place in Milwaukee County for the young crowd) and pays $5,000 taxes for a house somewhere around 180k. In Brookfield, it would be around $3,000.

LMAO, move to Dane County and cry about high taxes.

[mu03eng]

LMAO, move to Dane County and cry about high taxes.

Those that choose to live in Moscow West...... 

[4everwarriors]

LMAO, move to Dane County and cry about high taxes.

Doesn't seem to affect F*ckin'. Guess when you got it, you got it.

[LAZER]

I caught this a while back, thought it was pretty well done.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/two-american-families/

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

#1 Milwaukee, the city, needs good, local jobs (ie downtown, 3rd Ward, Eastside, Bayview, etc.). A mix of professional, retail, service, and production. It's honestly not terrible right now, but obviously MORE would be better.

#2 There are some decent neighborhoods, although some of the older homes are going to need some work (Old houses are not for everybody).  

#3 The schools need work, but they also need better PR. It's gotten to the point where everybody who is 30+ flees the city without actually researching the schools. MPS was a non-starter for them. That's a problem. MPS has some good options, but people don't even want to hear it.

[Spotcheck Billy]

We were just talking about this at work. One of my employees lives in Bay View (the new "it" place in Milwaukee County for the young crowd) and pays $5,000 taxes for a house somewhere around 180k. In Brookfield, it would be around $3,000.

but that house would be valued at $300K or thereabouts and the total property tax would still be about $5K I'd bet.

I grew up in Menomonee Falls in the 60's and when we was fortunate enough to be able to afford to buy a house we couldn't afford the houses in Waukesha County and had to buy one in MKE County. IMO, I'm still better off 20 years later because the difference in purchase cost is still greater than the extra I've paid in property taxes since 1992 and you can't beat the convenience of being less than 15 minutes from Summerfest or the Bradley Center etc.

[mu03eng]

#3 The schools need work, but they also need better PR. It's gotten to the point where everybody who is 30+ flees the city without actually researching the schools. MPS was a non-starter for them. That's a problem. MPS has some good options, but people don't even want to hear it.

The real issue is the area's that need the most economic help are also the areas where MPS sucks the most.  You might say, well no kidding, but for the amount of money they spend they should be able to moderate that somewhat.  Additionally, yes there are some decent options for the middle class in MPS but that limits the growth to those specific areas.  Too much hassle to move into an "up and coming" neighborhood but ship the kids to a decent school not in the area.

[Chili]

The biggest reason for the decline of the middle class in Milwaukee?  The Milwaukee Public Schools.

My wife grew up in Milwaukee...and not a single one of her close classmates from high school still live there.  They live in Oak Creek, Waukesha, Oconomowoc, etc.  The reason has almost entirely to do with the Milwaukee Public Schools.

Now that I only have a couple years to go until my youngest is off to college, if life ever brought me back to Milwaukee, I have no doubts that we would actually live in the city itself.  There are still a lot of great neighborhoods that are relatively close to everything.  And it's cheaper than the suburbs.

This is one reason why in Bay View the parents in the neighborhood have decided to petition (successfully) to bring back neighborhood schools and stop the asinine busing programming. So far grade and middle schools have changed and they are working towards bringing Bay View HS back to a neighborhood school so parents can be part of their child's education.

I loved living in Bay View and still would be if I didn't move to Chicago for work. Also, after having grown in up Waukesha, would never think of living in a far out suburb. You lose way to much culture and the opportunity of diverse experiences goes WAY down. Property taxes is only one thing IMO as I think quality of life in a city is much richer than suburbia. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The real issue is the area's that need the most economic help are also the areas where MPS sucks the most.  You might say, well no kidding, but for the amount of money they spend they should be able to moderate that somewhat.  Additionally, yes there are some decent options for the middle class in MPS but that limits the growth to those specific areas.  Too much hassle to move into an "up and coming" neighborhood but ship the kids to a decent school not in the area.

Agreed.

My example is very local, but I have had 2 different couples move out of Milwaukee "because of the schools".

When I asked what schools were in their neighborhood, they had no idea... and to be honest, neither do I.

But, the perception of MPS is so bad, that these people sold their houses and moved to the burbs without even considering MPS.

[Abode4life]

There was an story that didn't get much traction a couple years ago about MATC changing their curriculum to be more like a four year degree as opposed to skilled trades.  That also helped add to the shortage of skilled labor.  My uncle owns a small manufacturing shop on the south side and he always complains about how he can't find any quality labor.  That is compounded by a lot of companies taking away the apprenticeship programs that they have had in the past.  

Also, a big complaint of Barrett is that he has not done anything meaningful to solve some of these problems.  He seems fine with the status quo and has not helped a large portion of the city population.  Surprising he has never really been challenged though.  

[Abode4life]

Agreed.

My example is very local, but I have had 2 different couples move out of Milwaukee "because of the schools".

When I asked what schools were in their neighborhood, they had no idea... and to be honest, neither do I.

But, the perception of MPS is so bad, that these people sold their houses and moved to the burbs without even considering MPS.

Also doesn't help when MPS is selling abandoned schools to developers and specifically excluding good private schools from bidding on the properties to increase their enrollment.

Also, as far as the housing question, I live in Tosa, but literally right on the border of Milwaukee.  My house (A duplex) is more than half the value of my parents out in Delafield, roughly 200 square feet smaller, and I pay more in taxes than there.