Greg Echenique

[dwaderoy2004]

Just wondering why we aren't at all trying to recruit this guy.  He's a top 50 player for 2009, more specifically a top 10 center.  He also played at St. Benedicts in NJ and is from Venezuela.  IN other words, just like cubillan.  seems like we'd have a lot of inroads with him...

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=2383054

[ChicosBailBonds]

Maybe we tried and he said no thanks....every school on his list is east coast based.  He may have set early ground rules that he has no interest outside of the east coast.

[Harrison]

Now that is a question I have asked myself 1000X of so many big men.  Now the Crean's lack of an ability to sign quality big men apologists will rush to defend him saying " you did not want him" or "there are not that mnay quality big men".  But there have been hundreds of 3-4 and 5 star big men over the last 5,6,7 years that were quality hard working kids that signed at quality institutions and produced.  Many, many of them from areas we traditionally recruit and nary a mention of MU.  thanks for kicking us MU fans in the nuts with yet another in the hundreds and hundreds of examples. 

[MUCam]

I need the Rosetta Stone to comprehend what Harrison just wrote. Anyone have it?

[tomcrean4pres]

its hard to say... there could be a million reasons why we arent recruiting him... like it was posted earlier maybe we tried... just because there are big men out there that we need doesnt mean all of them are going to be interested in us

[downtown85]

I need the Rosetta Stone to comprehend what Harrison just wrote. Anyone have it?

MUCam, I will do my best.  Here it goes, "I think he is asking himself if the reason why very few guys bigger than 6'7" ever consider playing basketball at MU.  Is it the lack of recruiting effort or is it just that TC doesn't think basketball is a tall man's game?"

Sorry if I misstranslated it, Harrison.

[MUCam]

My honest opinion is that the "quality" big men are heading to big(ger) programs. I also think Crean may think our program is a little too good for the lower quality big men. That is just a hunch, nothing else. The problem for Crean is, if he recruits some no-name Redwood and the guys busts, we get on him for recruiting a "project." However, if he goes after the big name big guys, who are clearly in higher demand and shorter supply, he misses out and we blame him for being a bad recruiter.

Personally, I say devote a scholarship per every two years to a guy that is 6'10 or more, regardless of his "rank." There are plenty of 6'10" guys in the mid-majors that we should be able to successfully recruit. If we miss and the guy is a bust, it is only two scholarships per four years. But, if we hit, then it solves numerous problems. And, of course, it always helps to have a couple big bodies, even if they are solely used to wear down another team's big man. Right now, we have exactly one guy listed at 6'10" or over.

Crean has to (and maybe he is...who knows) set his sights lower insofar as big men are concerned...

[downtown85]

you may have a point but 2 prospects for 2008 are good examples of guys who weren't 6'10" but could have nicely filled the PF spot over the next couple of years:  Josh Crittle and Quintrell Thomas.  Crittle ended up committing to Oregon and Thomas ended up at Kansas.  I may be wrong, but at some point MU had a real chance at one or both of these guys.  I do not know the full reason why the didn't fit in here but I would like to hear the real story.  We could use another 4. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

you may have a point but 2 prospects for 2008 are good examples of guys who weren't 6'10" but could have nicely filled the PF spot over the next couple of years:  Josh Crittle and Quintrell Thomas.  Crittle ended up committing to Oregon and Thomas ended up at Kansas.  I may be wrong, but at some point MU had a real chance at one or both of these guys.  I do not know the full reason why the didn't fit in here but I would like to hear the real story.  We could use another 4. 

MU had very little chance with Thomas....we were always very far down on his list.  Crittle...that's another story that I can't figure out.

[RubyWiscy]

Doesn't Crean look for the team to give a final up or down on a recruit?  I seem to remember him saying something like that before.  Maybe Crittle didn't mix too well when he came in for a visit?  Just a theory.

[Harrison]

My point is like in this guy that there have been dozens and hundreds of 3-4-5 star kids over 6'8" over the last number of years that Mu has seemingly never pursued.  It makes no sense.  One could say there are not that mnay good big men out there...well then why does every other school in the BCS or BE for that matter have 3-4-5 of a 3 star or better rank.  We have two one a fresh one a senior.  I said it last year and I will say it this year, unfortunately will rpobably say it next year, that is...."we contend for a National title if we do not have the worst front court in the BE!!"

[bilsu]

There are not that many mobile bigmen. A four guard lineup does not need a lead footed bigman to slow it down. One of the reasons MU has had so much success against Pitt is that Barro could beat Gray down the floor. He was also much quicker than Louisville's center. Padget got three fouls called on him in about a minute at MU. Unfortunately, Louisville also had Carracter who was much more athletic than Padget. Even with those two centers MU should have won that game. They gave it away. It seems to me that Crean is really trying to play an up tempo game and therefore will not recruit a player that cannot run. I assume that is why he wants the center from Texas over the center that just visited Kentucky.

[Harrison]

That center that just visited Kentucky is scheduled to visit MU this weekend.  Now I agree we need mobility and guys that can get up and down the floor.  But they exist.  Couple of examples.  2 6'8" guys out of VAlparaiso signed with Purdue that MU never recruited...both top 100 2 hours from Milwaukee.   Van Treese out of Indy being recruited by a host of Midwestern school no Marquette.  Now I realize those are only three examples and Mu cannot recruit everybody but those are three examples of seemingly recruitable guys that could help MU that have nary a mention.  There have been scores of guys like these in our recruiting areas over the last half a dozen seasons.  With such a dearth of bigs should we not be widening our scope whereby if 2-3 fall thru the cracks we do not have yet another class of no one over 6'6"!!!??? 

[downtown85]

What about this guy?:

http://www.midstatehoops.com/playerfocus/aziz_ndiaye.html

Send Ousmane to speak the lingo with him. 

Kyle Rowley looks promising for 2009 but at 280lbs he may not be mobile enough.

I just wonder what it is about TC's recruiting pitch that is such a turn off to post players.   

[bma725]

That center that just visited Kentucky is scheduled to visit MU this weekend.  Now I agree we need mobility and guys that can get up and down the floor.  But they exist.  Couple of examples.  2 6'8" guys out of VAlparaiso signed with Purdue that MU never recruited...both top 100 2 hours from Milwaukee.   Van Treese out of Indy being recruited by a host of Midwestern school no Marquette.  Now I realize those are only three examples and Mu cannot recruit everybody but those are three examples of seemingly recruitable guys that could help MU that have nary a mention.  There have been scores of guys like these in our recruiting areas over the last half a dozen seasons.  With such a dearth of bigs should we not be widening our scope whereby if 2-3 fall thru the cracks we do not have yet another class of no one over 6'6"!!!??? 

The Valpo guys aren't bigs they are tall wings.  Both are primarily small forwards, and often switch to shooting guard.  I'm not saying MU shouldn't have recruited them, but they are not bigs at all.

[Harrison]

By picking the fly s#lT out of the pepper you have missed the point.  You could probably find a negative about every player out there.  the point is we are signing no one!!  and there are dozens ofplayers every year that we simply do not trecruit that could help. 
I disagree anyway hummel at 6'8" and over 200 lbs in HS and with his frame could be 230 in short order at leat 220-225. Also he does all the things Crean apparently wants in being able to run the court play multiple positions etc.  now i am not saying he is the perfect fit, etc. etc. they quaestion I have posed is why do we every year focus on 2-3 bigs and then when we miss we either sign guards in their place or Juco's?  neither of which solve the problem.  My point is the guys are out there.  Another example is a nother indiana kid in Jarrod Jones out of Michigan City barely 2 hours from MU.  Just visited Minnesots. the kid is 6'8" and 230 lbs...never seen him play but is described as very athletic and an excellent rebounder.  Hmmm?  Might he considr MU?  Again my point is there are dozens of guys in the Midwest and East that could really help us that we simply dont even get involved with.  very trobling when Crean whiffs on his 2-3 targets and signs guards in lieu of.  then we get ponded again on the boards.

[bma725]

Reading comprehension problem?  I didn't say we shouldn't recruit them go and re-read the post, I'd love to have them on the team now.  But everyone is pissing and moaning about not having inside players and not having anyone near 7'0, well the Valpo guys are not inside players and they aren't near 7'0. 

Hummel's size is irrelevant, he isn't an inside player.  Novak was 6'10 and no one considered him an inside player, Fitz is 6'9 and no one says he's an inside player.  Hummel is comparable to guys like that.  Tall yes, but he plays on the outside.

If Hummel and/or Martin had come to MU, people would still be b*tching about MU not having big men.

[ToddPacker]

By picking the fly s#lT out of the pepper you have missed the point.  You could probably find a negative about every player out there.  the point is we are signing no one!!  and there are dozens ofplayers every year that we simply do not trecruit that could help. 
I disagree anyway hummel at 6'8" and over 200 lbs in HS and with his frame could be 230 in short order at leat 220-225. Also he does all the things Crean apparently wants in being able to run the court play multiple positions etc.  now i am not saying he is the perfect fit, etc. etc. they quaestion I have posed is why do we every year focus on 2-3 bigs and then when we miss we either sign guards in their place or Juco's?  neither of which solve the problem.  My point is the guys are out there.  Another example is a nother indiana kid in Jarrod Jones out of Michigan City barely 2 hours from MU.  Just visited Minnesots. the kid is 6'8" and 230 lbs...never seen him play but is described as very athletic and an excellent rebounder.  Hmmm?  Might he considr MU?  Again my point is there are dozens of guys in the Midwest and East that could really help us that we simply dont even get involved with.  very trobling when Crean whiffs on his 2-3 targets and signs guards in lieu of.  then we get ponded again on the boards.

Don't we already have several guys on the roster that fit this description?  Fitz is 6'9", Burke is 6'8", Hazel and Mbakwe are just shy of 6'8". I realize Fitz will be gone soon, but still, we will have 3 guys on our roster around that size next year. 

We don't need anymore 6'8" guys, we have enough guys around that size.  What we need are some true bigs.  Maybe I am overreacting, but I think we need to start taking on projects to see if we can find some diamonds in the rough because truly elite bigs are few and far between and seem to end up at only the top majors like UK, Kansas, UNC, Duke, etc.  I am really confused about what happened with Crittle.  We led for a guy with great size and who is highly ranked.  Maybe there were some character issues that we are unaware of or grade issues?  I have no clue, but he would have made me feel about 110% better about our front court going forward.  He and Mbakwe would be quite a duo, it seems.

[Pakuni]

Hmmm?  Might he considr MU?  Again my point is there are dozens of guys in the Midwest and East that could really help us that we simply dont even get involved with.  very trobling when Crean whiffs on his 2-3 targets and signs guards in lieu of.  then we get ponded again on the boards.

Upon what are you basing the assumption that these are kids Marquette simply doesn't get involved with? How are you aware of the extent of contact, or non-contact, these kids have had with Marquette? Just because you don't see Marquette listed as a finalist for a kid or because the kid doesn't make an official visit, don't assume that MU is unaware of or hasn't reached out to a player.

[bma725]

We don't need anymore 6'8" guys

I am really confused about what happened with Crittle. We led for a guy with great size and who is highly ranked.

You say we don't need more 6'8 guys but then you say Crittle has great size?  You may want to look at his profile again, because he is 6'8 as well.

[ToddPacker]

Good call.  I thought Crittle was bigger.  He's listed as C so I just figured he was bigger.  I still think that whole situation is rather odd.  Still, if he is a wide-body that can play the 5, I think an exception can be made.  The other guys being thrown out there are more like Novak and Fitz in that they are 6'8" wings rather than 6'8" centers. 

[bma725]

Good call.  I thought Crittle was bigger.  He's listed as C so I just figured he was bigger.  I still think that whole situation is rather odd.  Still, if he is a wide-body that can play the 5, I think an exception can be made.  The other guys being thrown out there are more like Novak and Fitz in that they are 6'8" wings rather than 6'8" centers. 

He's not a wide body.  6'8 215-220.  He doesn't have wing skills because he's been a post all his life but he's built like one.

I don't know the exact details but his recruiting was very strange for all schools involved.  In July his leader was MU and his top schools were Indiana, Iowa, Virginia and Virginia Tech.  He had offers from all of them and they'd been in on him for awhile.  By the time he started taking official visits in September, not a single one of those schools was even involved anymore. 

[ToddPacker]

Good call.  I thought Crittle was bigger.  He's listed as C so I just figured he was bigger.  I still think that whole situation is rather odd.  Still, if he is a wide-body that can play the 5, I think an exception can be made.  The other guys being thrown out there are more like Novak and Fitz in that they are 6'8" wings rather than 6'8" centers. 

He's not a wide body.  6'8 215-220.  He doesn't have wing skills because he's been a post all his life but he's built like one.

I don't know the exact details but his recruiting was very strange for all schools involved.  In July his leader was MU and his top schools were Indiana, Iowa, Virginia and Virginia Tech.  He had offers from all of them and they'd been in on him for awhile.  By the time he started taking official visits in September, not a single one of those schools was even involved anymore. 

Just basing it off of pictures that I have seen, he looks like he could add some weight and play down low.   ???

[ToddPacker]

For Harrison, it appears MU is recruting Cort Hoge out of OK per Hoopmasters.  He's 6'11".  Looks like Crean is not just blindly refusing to recruit anyone over 6'6".  Who would have guessed.

[downtown85]

For Harrison, it appears MU is recruting Cort Hoge out of OK per Hoopmasters.  He's 6'11".  Looks like Crean is not just blindly refusing to recruit anyone over 6'6".  Who would have guessed.

Cort Hoge?  Oklahoma?  Must be another Buzz Williams special.   It is very hard to find any info on the guy.  If I were to take on a project, why not a 7 footer like Aziz Ndiaye?  It seems like he has more upside and he plays his high school ball only 60 miles away from MU.  TC can practically make all his home games personally if he wants to.