John Dawson Time...

[NersEllenson]

Yes, it can.  A lot.  If MU turns into a turnover machine, we will be blown out by hight

Except Dawson hasn't been a turnover machine when he's played, nor have teams been pressuring MU full court as its been.  There isn't a high propensity to turn the ball over the way we are being defended - and quite frankly, I'd rather see a PG who is aggressive and a playmaker who makes a 3 turnovers a game, as opposed to the PG who does nothing in an aggressive fashion, and turns the ball over 1-2 times per game.

[GGGG]

Except Dawson hasn't been a turnover machine when he's played, nor have teams been pressuring MU full court as its been.  There isn't a high propensity to turn the ball over the way we are being defended - and quite frankly, I'd rather see a PG who is aggressive and a playmaker who makes a 3 turnovers a game, as opposed to the PG who does nothing in an aggressive fashion, and turns the ball over 1-2 times per game.

You are making the assumption that Dawson "is aggressive and a playmaker."

[NersEllenson]

You are making the assumption that Dawson "is aggressive and a playmaker."

Certainly more so than Derrick Wilson, yes, without a doubt. 

[GGGG]

Certainly more so than Derrick Wilson, yes, without a doubt. 

I don't think so.  Others on here don't think so.  Buzz doesn't think so.

[ATL MU Warrior]

You know what the worst thing is about this subject?

At some point in the future if Dawson stays at MU (I think we all hope he does) and has a great game or multiple great games (which we all hope he does), Ners is going to be on here telling us all how right he was all along. 

I predict it will be the mother of all "I WAS RIGHT" threads and just hope I don't go 3 for 3 in being quoted in those kinds of threads.   

[tower912]

You make a good point.   I don't dislike Dawson.   I think that in time he will be better than DeWilson.   I do not see that time coming this year.   I haven't thrown in the towel for this season, either.   

[GGGG]

You make a good point.   I don't dislike Dawson.   I think that in time he will be better than DeWilson.   I do not see that time coming this year.   I haven't thrown in the towel for this season, either.   

I agree with all of this. 

[CTWarrior]

You are making the assumption that Dawson "is aggressive and a playmaker."

Well, he can't possibly be less aggressive than Derrick, and it would be almost impossible for him to be less of a playmaker.  That by no means makes him the better option, though.

Because he can be much worse defensively and much more likely to turn the ball over.  Buzz has to balance all of that and I'm sure he has done the basketball math and has decided that Derrick gives us the better chance to win right now (and has decided that rather emphatically, given the difference in their minutes).  I trust Buzz's decisions more than anyone on this board.

One other thing about Derrick, who I have generally been negative about.  Often it has been brought up that we don't fast break when he is in the game because he doesn't push the ball.  That may be true, but it is also true that our opponents don't get a lot of runouts with him in the game because he doesn't turn the ball over and he is an excellent defender in transition.

[mu03eng]

I haven't read through every post, but has anyone provided one piece of actual in game evidence that would indicate Dawson will actually perform better than Derrick?  If so, what is the prevailing theory as to way Buzz would than refuse to play Dawson?

I think Derrick has the physical tools but for some reason have put together the mental aspect.  The answer is not moar Dawson, it is less Derrick at the 1 and more Jamil at the 1.  This also creates more PT options for JJJ and Burton.

Dawson will be a fine player for MU over the 4 years, but he ain't anywhere close right now.

[NersEllenson]

You know what the worst thing is about this subject?

At some point in the future if Dawson stays at MU (I think we all hope he does) and has a great game or multiple great games (which we all hope he does), Ners is going to be on here telling us all how right he was all along. 

I predict it will be the mother of all "I WAS RIGHT" threads and just hope I don't go 3 for 3 in being quoted in those kinds of threads.   

Don't worry about that ATL - never been my M.O., here.  I've never started a thread pounding my chest about being right about different subject matters - certainly have debated within threads certain aspects of being right about a player or prediction...but never would start a thread to glorify myself.

[BobWildLoyalist]

Dawson will be a fine player for MU over the 4 years, but he ain't anywhere close right now.
[/quote]
Your making the assumption Dawson will be here for 4 years.

[forgetful]

I haven't read through every post, but has anyone provided one piece of actual in game evidence that would indicate Dawson will actually perform better than Derrick?  If so, what is the prevailing theory as to way Buzz would than refuse to play Dawson?

I think Derrick has the physical tools but for some reason have put together the mental aspect.  The answer is not moar Dawson, it is less Derrick at the 1 and more Jamil at the 1.  This also creates more PT options for JJJ and Burton.

Dawson will be a fine player for MU over the 4 years, but he ain't anywhere close right now.

I don't think anyone is saying that Dawson would walk in and outplay Derrick.  I believe there contention is that given in game experience (playing time) he would develop quicker and then outplay Derrick as the season goes on.  Long term perspective then says it would be beneficial for the team.

I have no idea if this scenario would be true.  But I'm going to go with Buzz's opinion on our players ability, he tends to be much more intelligent in those regards than I am.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Don't worry about that ATL - never been my M.O., here.  I've never started a thread pounding my chest about being right about different subject matters - certainly have debated within threads certain aspects of being right about a player or prediction...but never would start a thread to glorify myself.

Well, if you did it would certainly be fine with me.  I am just tired of showing up in all of them. 

[CTWarrior]

Also, if Wilson is as bad as you say he is, Dawson should be wrecking him in practice everyday, right?

I doubt very much that Dawson is allowed to simply ignore Derrick Wilson in practice and just play freelance help defense like our real opponents do.  Derrick probably does plenty of driving and dishing in practice, like he does in the games where our opponents opt to play him straight up.

[NersEllenson]

I haven't read through every post, but has anyone provided one piece of actual in game evidence that would indicate Dawson will actually perform better than Derrick?  If so, what is the prevailing theory as to way Buzz would than refuse to play Dawson?

I think Derrick has the physical tools but for some reason have put together the mental aspect.  The answer is not moar Dawson, it is less Derrick at the 1 and more Jamil at the 1.  This also creates more PT options for JJJ and Burton.

Dawson will be a fine player for MU over the 4 years, but he ain't anywhere close right now.

I think the bigger piece of evidence is simply how ineffective Derrick and the team have been under his direction.  It's hard to have a "drop off" in production, when the "production" has been so abysmal.  We aren't winning games against the good opponents, just got handed our worst defeat of the season - so things aren't improving.  If nothing changes, nothing changes.

I do however agree that at minimum, they need to make a change at PG, and if moving Jamil there is the best solution - great.  It would open more time for Burton and JJJ to an extent, which are positives.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I doubt very much that Dawson is allowed to simply ignore Derrick Wilson in practice and just play freelance help defense like our real opponents do.  Derrick probably does plenty of driving and dishing in practice, like he does in the games where our opponents opt to play him straight up.

hmmm, that's interesting.

In practice, do you think Buzz is trying to get Dawson to play like an MU PG should play on defense, or is he asking Dawson to play like how the opposition would play defense?

Which would be more beneficial? Should MU constantly work on what MU does, or should MU work against a scouting report? (ie a "scout" team)

Has anybody attending one of Buzz's practices in season? (Paint touches?) Do we know how Buzz operates?

[mu03eng]

I think the bigger piece of evidence is simply how ineffective Derrick and the team have been under his direction.  It's hard to have a "drop off" in production, when the "production" has been so abysmal.  We aren't winning games against the good opponents, just got handed our worst defeat of the season - so things aren't improving.  If nothing changes, nothing changes.

I do however agree that at minimum, they need to make a change at PG, and if moving Jamil there is the best solution - great.  It would open more time for Burton and JJJ to an extent, which are positives.

Ners, that assumes Dawson and Derrick defend at the same level which is in no way true.  So to make the switch then Dawson would have to be better on offense than Derrick, ergo do we have any evidence that is true.

So I'm fine with the Derrick needs to play less camp, but that camp needs to come up with an option that isn't play Dawson

[mu03eng]

hmmm, that's interesting.

In practice, do you think Buzz is trying to get Dawson to play like an MU PG should play on defense, or is he asking Dawson to play like how the opposition would play defense?

Which would be more beneficial? Should MU constantly work on what MU does, or should MU work against a scouting report? (ie a "scout" team)

Has anybody attending one of Buzz's practices in season? (Paint touches?) Do we know how Buzz operates?

I would assume they do both (I know cheap answer). But I'm sure they run a scout team that is going to simulate the opponent style and then they do drills which practice MU defense.

[mu03eng]

Dawson will be a fine player for MU over the 4 years, but he ain't anywhere close right now.

Your making the assumption Dawson will be here for 4 years.

Do we have any evidence that he won't be here for 4 years?

[Eldon]

I don't think anyone is saying that Dawson would walk in and outplay Derrick.  I believe there contention is that given in game experience (playing time) he would develop quicker and then outplay Derrick as the season goes on.  Long term perspective then says it would be beneficial for the team.

I have no idea if this scenario would be true.  But I'm going to go with Buzz's opinion on our players ability, he tends to be much more intelligent in those regards than I am.

Bingo. 

There is no in-game evidence because he's never been given a real chance to play.  Practice, despite being the best replicator, cannot perfectly simulate in-game situations.

If Dawson isn't BE caliber, then why is he here?  If he has BE potential, let's let that potential be realized.

Bad teams can afford to be risky.  We are a bad team.  Let's roll the dice. We have nothing to lose.

[MerrittsMustache]

hmmm, that's interesting.

In practice, do you think Buzz is trying to get Dawson to play like an MU PG should play on defense, or is he asking Dawson to play like how the opposition would play defense?

Which would be more beneficial? Should MU constantly work on what MU does, or should MU work against a scouting report? (ie a "scout" team)

Has anybody attending one of Buzz's practices in season? (Paint touches?) Do we know how Buzz operates?

They may also have Dylan Flood guard Derrick by sagging off him and clogging the lane while Dawson matches up with a driver/slasher like Mayo.

[MU82]

Throw Dawson out for 30 and let's just see what the hell happens - it truly cannot get much worse.

Coaches do not think like this.

[mu03eng]

Bingo. 

There is no in-game evidence because he's never been given a real chance to play.  Practice, despite being the best replicator, cannot perfectly simulate in-game situations.

If Dawson isn't BE caliber, then why is he here?  If he has BE potential, let's let that potential be realized.

Bad teams can afford to be risky.  We are a bad team.  Let's roll the dice. We have nothing to lose.

I don't have access to the game film, but I guarantee if I did I could show you in-game evidence that he is worse.  Doesn't mean he's not a Big East talent, just means he doesn't have enough reps to realize his potential.  Not every freshman can play up to their talent.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

They may also have Dylan Flood guard Derrick by sagging off him and clogging the lane while Dawson matches up with a driver/slasher like Mayo.

Actually, you bring up an interesting topic.

I think Flood should get some minutes. He has the physical abilities if Buzz would give him some minutes.

He can't be any worse than (insert forward).

[Eldon]

Actually, you bring up an interesting topic.

I think Flood should get some minutes. He has the physical abilities if Buzz would give him some minutes.

He can't be any worse than (insert forward).

Dawson is a scholarship player. Flood is not.