John Dawson Time...

[bilsu]

Right now my worst fear is losing to DePaul. Making a line up change before that game is just asking to get beaten by DePaul. You guys can start whoever you want, if we lose to DePaul, because that will show we are headed for a losing season and last place finish.

[MerrittsMustache]

I'll bet Dawson guards Derrick Wilson like he's a regular PG in practice (after all, Dawson is working on his defense) which makes Derrick seem more effective.  I don't think Dawson or Derrick is the answer.  I say try playing without a true PG and let JJJ, Mayo and Jamil share ballhandling.

It's frustrating because we have so many guys who talented but are 50-75% of the player we need them to be.  Derrick defends and is secure with the ball but doesn't initiate any offense.  Burton looks like he is going to be a great scorer, but is not yet interested in being a facilitator or finding the open man and shaky on D.  JJJ can score, but is young and turnover prone and shaky on D.  Jake Thomas is tough and can shoot, knows the defensive schemes and is effective on D, but is not a skilled ball handler and can't penetrate or get himself a shot.  Dawson is raw and untested.  Mayo is athletic, talented but very streaky and not a great passer.  Somehow, Buzz has to turn that collection of players into 3 effective guard/wings at a time.

Well stated.

Marquette has a bunch of role players who are/have been role players because they all have their limitations. It's also easy to say that so-and-so needs to step up his game but, truth be told, many of the upperclassmen have hit their ceilings.

[Sunbelt15]

BTW, Gardner is killing Gardner.   Otule's numbers haven't suffered.   How come he is still able to get passes on the block?   Oh, that's right, because he works hard for position every time, doesn't pout when he doesn't get the ball, and works for offensive rebounds on misses by someone other than himself.   All while playing defense. 

Have to AGREE 100%. Especially after watching him in this Creighton game.

[NersEllenson]

I watched the IUPUI and Samford games.   It could get a lot worse.  Marcus Jackson, Niv Berkowitz, Joe Chapman bad.   Losing to Louisville by 40 because they kept pressing up 30 bad. 

Problem is, NO team has full court pressed MU yet this year....Derrick isn't facing Lville type of pressure...and Dawson is not the equivalent of the example of Marcus Jackson, Niv or Joe Chapman running the point...not even close...

[NersEllenson]

nobody with any sense.

Funny, because I think it is total NONSENSE to keep playing Derrick Wilson 30 minutes a game, when it amounts to playing 4 on 5 offensively, and we have lost every game against a Top 50 team for the year as it is.

We have all the evidence we need on Derrick - throw Dawson out there and let's see how he does given 30 minutes and the opportunity to play long stretches of minutes and get in a rhythm...

It really cannot get worse.  Everyone wants to keep pointing fingers at Jamil and Devante not taking that next step up - it's basically impossible to do when you have a PG with the major limitations Derrick has.

[MerrittsMustache]

Funny, because I think it is total NONSENSE to keep playing Derrick Wilson 30 minutes a game, when it amounts to playing 4 on 5 offensively, and we have lost every game against a Top 50 team for the year as it is.

We have all the evidence we need on Derrick - throw Dawson out there and let's see how he does given 30 minutes and the opportunity to play long stretches of minutes and get in a rhythm...

It really cannot get worse.  Everyone wants to keep pointing fingers at Jamil and Devante not taking that next step up - it's basically impossible to do when you have a PG with the major limitations Derrick has.

What has Dawson done that makes you so sure that he's a better player offensively? Since Thanksgiving, he's played 49 minutes and shot 1-5 from the floor and rarely runs the point. If fans want Derrick to see fewer minutes, they should be calling for Jamil to run the point with JJJ or Burton getting Derrick's minutes. At least those two have shown the ability to play meaningful minutes at this level.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Funny, because I think it is total NONSENSE to keep playing Derrick Wilson 30 minutes a game, when it amounts to playing 4 on 5 offensively, and we have lost every game against a Top 50 team for the year as it is.

We have all the evidence we need on Derrick - throw Dawson out there and let's see how he does given 30 minutes and the opportunity to play long stretches of minutes and get in a rhythm...

It really cannot get worse.  Everyone wants to keep pointing fingers at Jamil and Devante not taking that next step up - it's basically impossible to do when you have a PG with the major limitations Derrick has.

Of course it can get worse.

"We" don't have squat, but you know who does?  Buzz.  If he thinks it is appropriate to keep playing DW for 30-35 minutes a game, that means he knows what Dawson can do and, compared to DW, it's worse...probably a lot worse.

I just don't get what you see when you watch Dawson.  He's tentative with the ball, unsure of where to go and who to pass to.  Defensively...can't really say but given that DW is pretty strong defensively he's not going to an upgrade there either.  

[MerrittsMustache]

Of course it can get worse.

"We" don't have squat, but you know who does?  Buzz.  If he thinks it is appropriate to keep playing DW for 30-35 minutes a game, that means he knows what Dawson can do and, compared to DW, it's worse...probably a lot worse.

I just don't get what you see when you watch Dawson.  He's tentative with the ball, unsure of where to go and who to pass to.  Defensively...can't really say but given that DW is pretty strong defensively he's not going to an upgrade there either.  

He sees a guy with "PG" next to his name on the roster who isn't Derrick Wilson. That's pretty much all he has to base his opinion on. 

[NersEllenson]

What has Dawson done that makes you so sure that he's a better player offensively? Since Thanksgiving, he's played 49 minutes and shot 1-5 from the floor and rarely runs the point. If fans want Derrick to see fewer minutes, they should be calling for Jamil to run the point with JJJ or Burton getting Derrick's minutes. At least those two have shown the ability to play meaningful minutes at this level.

He's shown me an ability to create good shots for others, advance the ball quickly in transition, see the floor well, not turnover the ball, and simply a much better feel for the game of basketball than Derrick.

Since Thanksgiving Dawson's high minute mark has been 13 minutes, twice.  The other games, 4, 2 and 5 minutes - some off the point. What is a guy gonna be able to show in such abbreviated stints?

Dawson hasn't come into games and launched shots - unlike say a Burton or Todd - he's played very unselfishly - so I'm not sure we can fully assess the quality of his scoring abilities.  What I can assess though is that he has GREAT court vision, and is a clever passer.

[NersEllenson]

He sees a guy with "PG" next to his name on the roster who isn't Derrick Wilson. That's pretty much all he has to base his opinion on. 

Let's put it this way:  What I see in John Dawson is a lot more Junior Cadougan, than what I see from Derrick Wilson.  And it is Junior Cadougan this team misses more than Vander or Trent..yet Junior still wasn't a great offensive point guard - he was a great passer, and had a natural feel for the game - I see similarities in Dawson.  I see a robot in Derrick.

[NersEllenson]

Of course it can get worse.

"We" don't have squat, but you know who does?  Buzz.  If he thinks it is appropriate to keep playing DW for 30-35 minutes a game, that means he knows what Dawson can do and, compared to DW, it's worse...probably a lot worse.

I just don't get what you see when you watch Dawson.  He's tentative with the ball, unsure of where to go and who to pass to.  Defensively...can't really say but given that DW is pretty strong defensively he's not going to an upgrade there either.  

Funny, because these are the exact qualities I see in Derrick Wilson, that I don't see in Dawson - Dawson is usually quite confident with the ball in his hands, and generally has gotten the ball to guys in good scoring position.

[MerrittsMustache]

He's shown me an ability to create good shots for others, advance the ball quickly in transition, see the floor well, not turnover the ball, and simply a much better feel for the game of basketball than Derrick.

Since Thanksgiving Dawson's high minute mark has been 13 minutes, twice.  The other games, 4, 2 and 5 minutes - some off the point. What is a guy gonna be able to show in such abbreviated stints?

Dawson hasn't come into games and launched shots - unlike say a Burton or Todd - he's played very unselfishly - so I'm not sure we can fully assess the quality of his scoring abilities.  What I can assess though is that he has GREAT court vision, and is a clever passer.

Let me get this straight, we can't judge his offense because he hasn't been able to show much in his abbreviated stints, yet you're using what you've seen in those abbreviated stints to form your opinion that he would improve the offense if he played 30 minutes a game?

[ATL MU Warrior]

Funny, because these are the exact qualities I see in Derrick Wilson, that I don't see in Dawson - Dawson is usually quite confident with the ball in his hands, and generally has gotten the ball to guys in good scoring position.

Then I have no idea what you are watching.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Let me get this straight, we can't judge his offense because he hasn't been able to show much in his abbreviated stints, yet you're using what you've seen in those abbreviated stints to form your opinion that he would improve the offense if he played 30 minutes a game?

[GGGG]

This is just getting comical.

Cmon Ners.  You are seeing something no one but what you and Nevada are seeing in Dawson....including Buzz Williams.  Buzz certainly has seen him plenty.  Much more than you or I have.  So why isn't he playing more at the point for a team that has clear deficiencies at PG?

[NersEllenson]

Then I have no idea what you are watching.

Funny - because you get to see 30 minutes a game of Derrick doing virtually nothing, over and over and over, and still feel he's good?  Derrick is the embodiment of being tentative with the ball.

[NersEllenson]

Let me get this straight, we can't judge his offense because he hasn't been able to show much in his abbreviated stints, yet you're using what you've seen in those abbreviated stints to form your opinion that he would improve the offense if he played 30 minutes a game?

You probably should have bolded the next paragraph I wrote to give you your answer to the above question.  In its simplest form, as I wrote in another post - Dawson looks a lot more like Junior Cadougan running the point, than does Derrick Wilson.  Dawson has forced action and tempo in his short stints in games running the point - why Buzz plays him off the ball with Jamil is beyond confusing to me.  As it was to play Derrick Wilson in the game against Creighton with Jamil running the point.  Does that make any sense??

The only logical explanation as to why Derrick could be getting all these minutes - the most on the team by a wide margin - 50+ more minutes than the next closest guys (Jamil and Jake), are because Buzz must feel Derrick's defense is so exceptional, that it offsets all the problems he brings to the team offensively. 

[Hards Alumni]

You probably should have bolded the next paragraph I wrote to give you your answer to the above question.  In its simplest form, as I wrote in another post - Dawson looks a lot more like Junior Cadougan running the point, than does Derrick Wilson.  Dawson has forced action and tempo in his short stints in games running the point - why Buzz plays him off the ball with Jamil is beyond confusing to me.  As it was to play Derrick Wilson in the game against Creighton with Jamil running the point.  Does that make any sense??

The only logical explanation as to why Derrick could be getting all these minutes - the most on the team by a wide margin - 50+ more minutes than the next closest guys (Jamil and Jake), are because Buzz must feel Derrick's defense is so exceptional, that it offsets all the problems he brings to the team offensively. 

Or because he thinks that playing Derrick will make him more comfortable and play better.  Probably that.

[MerrittsMustache]

You probably should have bolded the next paragraph I wrote to give you your answer to the above question.  In its simplest form, as I wrote in another post - Dawson looks a lot more like Junior Cadougan running the point, than does Derrick Wilson.  Dawson has forced action and tempo in his short stints in games running the point - why Buzz plays him off the ball with Jamil is beyond confusing to me.  As it was to play Derrick Wilson in the game against Creighton with Jamil running the point.  Does that make any sense??

The only logical explanation as to why Derrick could be getting all these minutes - the most on the team by a wide margin - 50+ more minutes than the next closest guys (Jamil and Jake), are because Buzz must feel Derrick's defense is so exceptional, that it offsets all the problems he brings to the team offensively.  

Again though, in those "abbreviated minutes" during which can't tell you much about Dawson (by your own admission), you think that he reminds you of Junior Cadougan even though he rarely plays PG.

Buzz explained why Jamil was running the point with Derrick in the game.

Another logical explanation, actually the MOST logical explanation, for Derrick's minutes is because the viable options at PG are very limited.

[humanlung]

BTW, Gardner is killing Gardner.   Otule's numbers haven't suffered.   How come he is still able to get passes on the block?   Oh, that's right, because he works hard for position every time, doesn't pout when he doesn't get the ball, and works for offensive rebounds on misses by someone other than himself.   All while playing defense. 

Couldn't agree more.  Gardner's pouting this season is almost unbearable.

[NersEllenson]

Again though, in those "abbreviated minutes" during which can't tell you much about Dawson (by your own admission), you think that he reminds you of Junior Cadougan even though he rarely plays PG.

Buzz explained why Jamil was running the point with Derrick in the game.

Another logical explanation, actually the MOST logical explanation, for Derrick's minutes is because the viable options at PG are very limited.

I said you can't tell much about Dawson's scoring capabilities in the limited minutes, because he doesn't come in games and jack up shots like a Burton or Mayo.  You can see quite clearly, that Dawson sees the floor well, pushes tempo, and has some creativity in his passing and playmaking that Derrick Wilson sorely lacks.

If Dawson is really so bad that he's going to be such a downgrade from Derrick Wilson - who to any non-biased observer (such as the color commentators), can see has serious limitations as a point guard - then Dawson should have never been recruited to come to MU.  But, Dawson had offers from Creighton, and a few high mid majors as I recall.  Derrick Wilson is no better than a mid major point guard.  How much more evidence do people need to see?

What do we have to lose???  We already are losing all the games against Top 75 teams we play - and the 18 point blowout to Creighton was the worst loss of the bunch....we aren't getting better.  It is what it is with Derrick at the point...and it's not good.  Throw Dawson out for 30 and let's just see what the hell happens - it truly cannot get much worse.

[Eldon]

What many fans are overlooking is that Dawson wasn't signed to be the star PG. His role at MU is likely to be "the next Derrick Wilson." He's a back-up PG. Ideally, Duane would be seeing 25-28 mpg at the point with Derrick seeing the remainder and Dawson getting some garbage time PT. As years progress, Duane will continue to run the point with Dawson and Noskowiak battling for back-up minutes.

Derrick saw about 9 mpg as a frosh because he had a Big East body and the ability to play solid D and mistake-free basketball. Dawson has none of those things at this point in his career. He'll get there, but he's not there right now.

So let's speed this up!  Come next year, we will be in the same predicament--Derrick as the point, Duane with no experience at the college level, and Dawson with hardly any college experience.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I said you can't tell much about Dawson's scoring capabilities in the limited minutes, because he doesn't come in games and jack up shots like a Burton or Mayo.  You can see quite clearly, that Dawson sees the floor well, pushes tempo, and has some creativity in his passing and playmaking that Derrick Wilson sorely lacks.

If Dawson is really so bad that he's going to be such a downgrade from Derrick Wilson - who to any non-biased observer (such as the color commentators), can see has serious limitations as a point guard - then Dawson should have never been recruited to come to MU.  But, Dawson had offers from Creighton, and a few high mid majors as I recall.  Derrick Wilson is no better than a mid major point guard.  How much more evidence do people need to see?

What do we have to lose???  We already are losing all the games against Top 75 teams we play - and the 18 point blowout to Creighton was the worst loss of the bunch....we aren't getting better.  It is what it is with Derrick at the point...and it's not good.  Throw Dawson out for 30 and let's just see what the hell happens - it truly cannot get much worse.

Why doesn't Buzz play Dawson?

I figure it's because Dawson hasn't played very well in practice or in limited minutes.

EDIT:

Also, if Wilson is as bad as you say he is, Dawson should be wrecking him in practice everyday, right?

[mu-rara]

Funny, because I think it is total NONSENSE to keep playing Derrick Wilson 30 minutes a game, when it amounts to playing 4 on 5 offensively, and we have lost every game against a Top 50 team for the year as it is.

We have all the evidence we need on Derrick - throw Dawson out there and let's see how he does given 30 minutes and the opportunity to play long stretches of minutes and get in a rhythm...

It really cannot get worse.  Everyone wants to keep pointing fingers at Jamil and Devante not taking that next step up - it's basically impossible to do when you have a PG with the major limitations Derrick has.

Yes, it can.  A lot.  If MU turns into a turnover machine, we will be blown out by hight

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It is not John Dawson time IMHO.

Of course, I haven't given up on this season yet.