Samford game thread

[4everwarriors]

One could say, almost constipatin', hey?

[Eldon]

He had on a BB t shirt that was the same color as the warm ups as the team.

You are probably right, technically he was not dressed.

His appearance in the New Mexico game was a head scratcher for me.

One theory, conspiratorial in nature, says that Buzz is underwhelmed with steve. He inserted him into the game to remove any possibility of a redshirt, which would take up a scholarship that he he could use for some better, future player.

[GGGG]

It is pure comedy that there are about 4 posters who claim their extensive knowledge of basketball, by citing Derrick, Jake, and Otule "being in the right position defensively," to justify their otherwise poor performances for the season.  Yet, on the other hand turn their back on the vast offensive potential/skill guys like Burton, JJJ and Mayo for that matter have.

Of course, that isn't what anyone is arguing.  At all.  I think everyone knows that JJJ or Todd has more potential than Jake....that Deonte has more potential than Juan...  No one disputes that.

What the argument is who is better on this floor right now.  And +/- suggests that Todd and Deonte give MU less net points than Jake or Juan do.  Now of course there are problems with +/- stats, but you are way exaggerating their net contributions v. the players that Buzz is actually playing. 

[NersEllenson]

Of course, that isn't what anyone is arguing.  At all.  I think everyone knows that JJJ or Todd has more potential than Jake....that Deonte has more potential than Juan...  No one disputes that.

What the argument is who is better on this floor right now.  And +/- suggests that Todd and Deonte give MU less net points than Jake or Juan do.  Now of course there are problems with +/- stats, but you are way exaggerating their net contributions v. the players that Buzz is actually playing. 

I generally like +/- as a stat indicator, yet there a lot of components that to into +/- such as who were your teammates you were playing with at the time, what was the oppositions lineup at the time, etc. 

Saw this posted on the Scout site and thought it was pretty revealing:

The starters played 101 minutes, scored 21 points, had 24 rebounds, 10 assists, 6 steals, 2 blocks, and 5 turnovers.  They shot a combined 7 of 21 from the field (33%), 1 of 7 on treys (14%), and 6 of 11 free throws (55%).

The reserves played 99 minutes, scored 50 points, had 10 rebounds, 9 assists, 6 steals, 3 blocks, and 9 turnovers.  They shot 16 of 26 from the field (62%), 3 of 5 on treys (60%), and 15 of 20 free throws (75%).

[GGGG]

YOU have selective memory.


You clearly can't remember the turning points of every big game.

ZERO wins, FIVE losses vs tourney caliber teams with our "starters"

If this is all you got, you got nothing.

Sorry, but I have clearly showed way Buzz is giving more minutes to Juan and Jake v. Deonte and Todd.  I *want* Deonte and JJJ to play more, but only if they *earn* it...not given it because they can score more.

You fail to realize that basketball is played on both ends, and neither of them will get the minutes you want them to get until they stop making defensive mistakes.  I think by the end of the year, that they will figure things out, and their minutes will increase.

And you have to stop the bullsh*t, "I want to win, you want to lose" argument.  That is something I expect from a middle schooler.  Are you a middle schooler Haywards???

[GGGG]

I generally like +/- as a stat indicator, yet there a lot of components that to into +/- such as who were your teammates you were playing with at the time, what was the oppositions lineup at the time, etc. 

I agree completely Ners.  But the point is that while they do have potential...and they *can* score...the idea that everything should be turned over to them while ignoring their defensive liabilities is foolish.  And furthermore for people to act like its a no-brainer ignores that they are lacking on the other end.

Look, I absolutely love JJJ and Deonte.  They are going to be very, very good players.  And they will get there.  But upping their minutes by 10 mpg like some are suggesting is *not* the way to help them or help the team win.

[PGsHeroes32]

If this is all you got, you got nothing.

Sorry, but I have clearly showed way Buzz is giving more minutes to Juan and Jake v. Deonte and Todd.  I *want* Deonte and JJJ to play more, but only if they *earn* it...not given it because they can score more.

You fail to realize that basketball is played on both ends, and neither of them will get the minutes you want them to get until they stop making defensive mistakes.  I think by the end of the year, that they will figure things out, and their minutes will increase.

And you have to stop the bullsh*t, "I want to win, you want to lose" argument.  That is something I expect from a middle schooler.  Are you a middle schooler Haywards???

O my god. How many times are you going to say the BOTH ends thing

Jesus, for the last FU CKING time

Unm, ASU, Wisco and OSU all had huge runs vs the DEFENDERS you clamor for.

Now do YOU realize there are two ends? We have to score to win. Deonte and JJJ and Todd had more on offense then those guys add on d. They are far better on offense than those guys compared to those guys defensive advantage.

Your plus minus include CUPCAKES. Vs the 5 good teams our starters have SUCKED. Derrick way to play both ends against Thames!!!

I'll ask one last time(hopefully) why not play them? Clearly the "defense" strategy(if it even exists) is not working. Why not try something new?

Why not develop freshman talent. Rather than bleed out a slow painful death with a walk on, 6th year senior, junior pg who can't shoot and a junior energy guy.

Two of those 4 being guys who almost transferred.

Now do you get that there are two ends?

[PGsHeroes32]

I agree completely Ners.  But the point is that while they do have potential...and they *can* score...the idea that everything should be turned over to them while ignoring their defensive liabilities is foolish.  And furthermore for people to act like its a no-brainer ignores that they are lacking on the other end.

Look, I absolutely love JJJ and Deonte.  They are going to be very, very good players.  And they will get there.  But upping their minutes by 10 mpg like some are suggesting is *not* the way to help them or help the team win.

But on the same side we are currently ignoring what the starters offensive liabilities are. Stop looking at one side.

We haven't beaten good teams with this approach. Time to try something  new.

It was incredible seeing the looks jake got once Todd , Ox and Davante entered vs New Mexico. They defense has to actually try.

[GGGG]

Saw this posted on the Scout site and thought it was pretty revealing:

The starters played 101 minutes, scored 21 points, had 24 rebounds, 10 assists, 6 steals, 2 blocks, and 5 turnovers.  They shot a combined 7 of 21 from the field (33%), 1 of 7 on treys (14%), and 6 of 11 free throws (55%).

The reserves played 99 minutes, scored 50 points, had 10 rebounds, 9 assists, 6 steals, 3 blocks, and 9 turnovers.  They shot 16 of 26 from the field (62%), 3 of 5 on treys (60%), and 15 of 20 free throws (75%).

BTW, I will point out that one of the problems with this is that it ignores that one of the top scoring starters was injured and hardly played.  So I'm not sure it says much.

[GGGG]

O my god. How many times are you going to say the BOTH ends thing

Jesus, for the last FU CKING time

Unm, ASU, Wisco and OSU all had huge runs vs the DEFENDERS you clamor for.

Now do YOU realize there are two ends? We have to score to win. Deonte and JJJ and Todd had more on offense then those guys add on d. They are far better on offense than those guys compared to those guys defensive advantage.

Your plus minus include CUPCAKES. Vs the 5 good teams our starters have SUCKED. Derrick way to play both ends against Thames!!!

+/- includes both ends and pretty much negates your assertion that they score more than they give up on defense.  And the stats for both the starters and reserves includes cupcakes as well as the top teams.

So I'm not sure you have the basics to actually back up what you are saying.

Maybe that will change in the future.

[GGGG]

But on the same side we are currently ignoring what the starters offensive liabilities are. Stop looking at one side.

+/- looks at both sides.

[PGsHeroes32]

+/- includes both ends and pretty much negates your assertion that they score more than they give up on defense.  And the stats for both the starters and reserves includes cupcakes as well as the top teams.

So I'm not sure you have the basics to actually back up what you are saying.

Maybe that will change in the future.

Yes I do have the stats I PROVIDED every run of the games against good teams.

It is well known that Chris and Juan can score against IUPUI and Ball State.

They can't vs good teams. Stop ignoring every single run I have pointed out that our starters gave up vs good teams

[GGGG]

Yes I do have the stats I PROVIDED every run of the games against good teams.

Those weren't stats.  Those were assertions.  You really didn't provide anything objective to back up what you said.

[PGsHeroes32]

+/- looks at both sides.

No it doesn't. As mentioned it doesn't show the inconsistency of who you are playing with.

Do you want the starters plus/minus when all 5 are on the floor together starting halves?

Even though I shown it many times?

I have seen countless heat games where LeBron goes off for his usual 25 8 and 7. We all know his ability on defense as well.

Yet, he will somehow be -5 in a game they won by 7 and wade will be plus 18 having a very poor game

Hell, I think it happend against the bucks in playoffs multiple times last year

[NersEllenson]

BTW, I will point out that one of the problems with this is that it ignores that one of the top scoring starters was injured and hardly played.  So I'm not sure it says much.

True, but still the starters got 101 minutes to the bench's 99...and you still had the stat disparity.  What Jamil going down meant was season highs in minutes (I think) for Burton, JJJ and Todd...

[GGGG]

No it doesn't. As mentioned it doesn't show the inconsistency of who you are playing with.

OK...Hayward's made up stats that are based on selective memory should be good enough for you...good enough for me...and good enough for Buzz.

Only if they don't cherish losing that is...

[PGsHeroes32]

Those weren't stats.  Those were assertions.  You really didn't provide anything objective to back up what you said.

How is saying the starters started down 14-2 not objective?

That was the score with ALL FIVE in

12-5 with ALL FIVE. Obviously their plus minus doesn't stay at that since Jake STAYED in. Then found open looks with Todd and Davante in the game.

The STARTING 5 together is the issue here.

Playing them all together has not worked

You ever going to answer? What is wrong with trying something new when what we are trying has produced the worst possible scenario?

[PGsHeroes32]

OK...Hayward's made up stats that are based on selective memory should be good enough for you...good enough for me...and good enough for Buzz.

Only if they don't cherish losing that is...

How is 14-2 made up?

You have NOTHING


Keep celebrating the worst non conference in Buzz era

Yay!! Defense!!! Keep kicking ass!!! Beat IUPUI!!! We might make the CIT.

[GGGG]

You ever going to answer? What is wrong with trying something new when what we are trying has produced the worst possible scenario?

Because Buzz and I cherish losing.

[GGGG]

Watch the game you ignorant prick

LOL...calm down dude.  You are a little too excitable this year.

[PGsHeroes32]

Because Buzz and I cherish losing.

Bummer. Let me know when you actually watch a game

As Kevin oneill said "sometimes stats don't tell the story, you have to see what they do against good teams" talking about Derrick

Face it, you've got nothing.

Look at all 5 losses and see where the game stalled and runs happend

[GGGG]

Face it, you've got nothing.

I have provided you with clear arguments of my point of view without calling you names or insinuating that you want to lose.  You have weakened your arguments through both in this and multiple threads.

Sorry, but I'm really not going to take you seriously if you are going to act in such a manner.

[PGsHeroes32]

I have provided you with clear arguments of my point of view without calling you names or insinuating that you want to lose.  You have weakened your arguments through both in this and multiple threads.

Sorry, but I'm really not going to take you seriously if you are going to act in such a manner.

Calling you names seems to be the only thing you are smart enough to understand

I provide specific examples in every meaningful resume game. And you ignore it or call it "selective memory" or "not objective".

When it is simply irrefutable fact.

[77ncaachamps]

Buzz came clean today:

---------

Golden Eagles coach Buzz Williams was pleased with his team's win, but said each player must be more consistent for the team to be successful in Big East play.

"If you look at the numbers and you go, `Well, how did the starters play more minutes than the subs and the subs scored more points? Buzz, you're starting the wrong guys," he said. "Maybe.

"At some point, if we are going to be better, we have to find some sort of consistency," Williams said.

---------

The problems are: when will this consistency happen and how can it happen when he's subbing guys in and out?

It's been a frustrating year so far, and I don't think the corner is going to be turned any time soon, especially with injuries to Jamil and Steve.

[ChicosBailBonds]

He had on a BB t shirt that was the same color as the warm ups as the team.

You are probably right, technically he was not dressed.

His appearance in the New Mexico game was a head scratcher for me.

Ditto