The Impossible Reform of Catholic Universities

[ChicosBailBonds]

Interesting article today.

http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/otc.cfm?id=1140

[tower912]

Yeah, there's no way this thread doesn't end up locked. 

[Coleman]

The crux of the matter lies in the true purpose of a Catholic university. I don't think its purpose is in waging culture wars by subscribing to American political battles on single issues. And I certainly don't think what happened at Santa Clara is any failing of the Jesuits. If one views the Church a medieval top-down institution where power flows from the top in all decision making, then perhaps. But if you view a Catholic university as a true university, where faculty are able to exercise academic freedom in pursuit of truth, then conflicts such as these are bound to happen. And they should be welcomed. Because what other arena is more appropriate for these things to be discussed? I shudder at the thought of all faculty being subjected to some sort of a Catholic allegiance test before being offered tenure, as the author suggests. MU could kiss its days as being a top 100 school goodbye.

The single greatest mistake that the Church could make is using abortion-or any issue- as a litmus test in what institutions are "Catholic." It is declining the discussion, instead of participating in it.  But if we were going to choose an issue, why not choose the university's engagement in the community and in helping the poor, or in helping elevate first generation college students. Because if those were the issues chosen, I guarantee you Jesuit schools would be leading the pack.

[tower912]

Bleuteaux with a thoughtful response!    With Pope Francis emphasizing caring for the poor, income equality, being a church of welcoming and forgiveness versus being a church of moralistic scorekeeping, I anticipate that in the years to come there will be many debates along these lines.  The challenge for all American Catholics is that Francis is calling for a whole-cloth approach to Catholicism and many of us (I admit my guilt) mix politics with religion.  Catholic universities are not going to be exempt from this.

[Bocephys]

Yeah, there's no way this thread doesn't end up locked. 

[Eldon]

The crux of the matter lies in the true purpose of a Catholic university. I don't think its purpose is in waging culture wars by subscribing to American political battles on single issues. And I certainly don't think what happened at Santa Clara is any failing of the Jesuits. If one views the Church a medieval top-down institution where power flows from the top in all decision making, then perhaps. But if you view a Catholic university as a true university, where faculty are able to exercise academic freedom in pursuit of truth, then conflicts such as these are bound to happen. And they should be welcomed. Because what other arena is more appropriate for these things to be discussed? I shudder at the thought of all faculty being subjected to some sort of a Catholic allegiance test before being offered tenure, as the author suggests. MU could kiss its days as being a top 100 school goodbye.

The single greatest mistake that the Church could make is using abortion-or any issue- as a litmus test in what institutions are "Catholic." It is declining the discussion, instead of participating in it.  But if we were going to choose an issue, why not choose the university's engagement in the community and in helping the poor, or in helping elevate first generation college students. Because if those were the issues chosen, I guarantee you Jesuit schools would be leading the pack.

Well said--"Catholic University" can be a bit of an oxymoron, I suppose.

In any case, if MU focused on the bold part, the fall from the top 100 may come faster than the fall associated with any litmus test regarding abortion.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yeah, there's no way this thread doesn't end up locked. 

We're a Catholic university, this is about religion and how Catholic universities proceed.  It was an interesting article.  Feel free not to read or contribute I suppose. 

[brandx]

Good, thoughtful responses so far.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Bleuteaux with a thoughtful response!    With Pope Francis emphasizing caring for the poor, income equality, being a church of welcoming and forgiveness versus being a church of moralistic scorekeeping, I anticipate that in the years to come there will be many debates along these lines.  The challenge for all American Catholics is that Francis is calling for a whole-cloth approach to Catholicism and many of us (I admit my guilt) mix politics with religion.  Catholic universities are not going to be exempt from this.

Interesting take.  I listened to an interview on the way home last night about Pope Francis and one of the things he said is how many people want to pigeon hole him into an ideology to further their political beliefs.  It was an interesting take....he gave examples of economics to illustrate his point.  For example, he is not anti-Capitalist even though some people want to portray him that way.  Same with views on other "grand" issues where initial reports were he said X, when in reality you can say X and still very much guide your church under the strict, historical path it has been on, which for whatever reason that part is largely left out of the stories.

Nevertheless, I enjoyed the pope's most recent comments on capitalism, socialism (he's very much against it), family, etc.  I also have no problem with a "whole cloth" approach, but one wonders if he stays with Catholic principles how many American Catholics (who know best what the church should be, afterall) will continue down their separate path anyway.  It's as if many Americans are saying change because we want you to change and if the church doesn't (on higher moral principles) then bye bye.  Which begs the question, is the church supposed to do what it believes is right, what it believes is moral, what it believes is proper or is it supposed to adhere to whichever way the cultural winds blow? 

[forgetful]

The crux of the matter lies in the true purpose of a Catholic university. I don't think its purpose is in waging culture wars by subscribing to American political battles on single issues. And I certainly don't think what happened at Santa Clara is any failing of the Jesuits. If one views the Church a medieval top-down institution where power flows from the top in all decision making, then perhaps. But if you view a Catholic university as a true university, where faculty are able to exercise academic freedom in pursuit of truth, then conflicts such as these are bound to happen. And they should be welcomed. Because what other arena is more appropriate for these things to be discussed? I shudder at the thought of all faculty being subjected to some sort of a Catholic allegiance test before being offered tenure, as the author suggests. MU could kiss its days as being a top 100 school goodbye.

The single greatest mistake that the Church could make is using abortion-or any issue- as a litmus test in what institutions are "Catholic." It is declining the discussion, instead of participating in it.  But if we were going to choose an issue, why not choose the university's engagement in the community and in helping the poor, or in helping elevate first generation college students. Because if those were the issues chosen, I guarantee you Jesuit schools would be leading the pack.

Very well said...no need to comment further.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Bluteaux, I don't want a litmus test either.  I believe in academic freedom.  On the other hand, if I choose to go to a Catholic university I also expect to have Catholic teachings relevant and part of the curriculum and embodied by the university in general.  Otherwise, why am I bothering to spend that money for that added religious aspect to my education? I can get the rest at a public school for 1/4 the cost.

IMO

[tower912]

Interesting take.  I listened to an interview on the way home last night about Pope Francis and one of the things he said is how many people want to pigeon hole him into an ideology to further their political beliefs.  It was an interesting take....he gave examples of economics to illustrate his point.  For example, he is not anti-Capitalist even though some people want to portray him that way.  Same with views on other "grand" issues where initial reports were he said X, when in reality you can say X and still very much guide your church under the strict, historical path it has been on, which for whatever reason that part is largely left out of the stories.

Nevertheless, I enjoyed the pope's most recent comments on capitalism, socialism (he's very much against it), family, etc.  I also have no problem with a "whole cloth" approach, but one wonders if he stays with Catholic principles how many American Catholics (who know best what the church should be, afterall) will continue down their separate path anyway.  It's as if many Americans are saying change because we want you to change and if the church doesn't (on higher moral principles) then bye bye.  Which begs the question, is the church supposed to do what it believes is right, what it believes is moral, what it believes is proper or is it supposed to adhere to whichever way the cultural winds blow? 

American Catholics already follow their own path.    How many Americans, who love their politics, follow the Catholic church's position on ALL of the following:   Abortion, immigration, just war, death penalty, concern for the poor, economic injustice, the environment, gay marriage, gays (independent of the marriage issue), access to health care (hint:  Cardinal Dolan said the American Catholic church would have been Obamacare's biggest supporters if not for the abortion/contraceptive plank)
Catholicism is about supporting the pregnant female illegal immigrant's rights to fair wages and fair access just as it is about her unborn child.    A challenge for all of us. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

American Catholics already follow their own path.    How many Americans, who love their politics, follow the Catholic church's position on ALL of the following:   Abortion, immigration, just war, death penalty, concern for the poor, economic injustice, the environment, gay marriage, gays (independent of the marriage issue), access to health care (hint:  Cardinal Dolan said the American Catholic church would have been Obamacare's biggest supporters if not for the abortion/contraceptive plank)
Catholicism is about supporting the pregnant female illegal immigrant's rights to fair wages and fair access just as it is about her unborn child.    A challenge for all of us. 

Yup....and I think a lot of them want the church to change and think it's a popularity contest or a democracy where the church should just change based on the whims of the people....forget about the teachings, Catholic dogma, etc.  A challenge to be sure, but that's why I said a Catholic university I would expect to adhere to Catholic teachings...that should be fundamental to what the institution is all about.

[wildbillsb]

Yup....and I think a lot of them want the church to change and think it's a popularity contest or a democracy where the church should just change based on the whims of the people....forget about the teachings, Catholic dogma, etc.  A challenge to be sure, but that's why I said a Catholic university I would expect to adhere to Catholic teachings...that should be fundamental to what the institution is all about.

The problem as I see it, is at what point in time (in the last 2K years or so), do we determine that XP dogma, as interpreted, is forever sacrosanct?  WE are the church.  WE have made grievous errors in our history.  Have WE learned from those errors? Have WE reinterpreted XP's teachings over the last two millenia in light of human advancement in many fields? It's not really a measure of "popularity" (actually, the early church was very democratic), but of interpretation, no?  Simpler times called for simpler answers.  We ain't living in those times no more.  The world is smaller, closer, more educated, and in some respects more perilous.  If you want the great unwashed educated through the XP university systems, then you got to live with the results, too. Catholicism has always had to face challenges.  Maybe we're wrong about a number of challenges in front of us.  Maybe not.  Maybe going 'back to the basics" of loving our neighbor is a start.  Merry Christmas to all (Scoopers included)!

[Coleman]

Bluteaux, I don't want a litmus test either.  I believe in academic freedom.  On the other hand, if I choose to go to a Catholic university I also expect to have Catholic teachings relevant and part of the curriculum and embodied by the university in general.  Otherwise, why am I bothering to spend that money for that added religious aspect to my education? I can get the rest at a public school for 1/4 the cost.

IMO

Agreed. I think most Jesuit schools do an excellent job of that. The required theology courses, campus ministry, countless opportunities for worship, etc all embody a Catholic identity. It is a large part of the reason I went to Marquette and I treasure it immensely. I do not want these lost. Ever.

But it would be a mistake to silence all opposing viewpoints in a quest for some sort of "most Catholic" contest. MU can and should promote the official teachings of the Church. But as a university it should also allow opposing points of view in a genuine search for dialogue and truth. This is the noble role of a university.

Don't get me wrong, there is inherent tension between these seemingly opposing goals. But the Jesuits, better than any other college administrators I've ever encountered, balance it incredibly well.

[keefe]

The issue is not whether Catholic higher education can coexist with post-industrial Modernism. Nor is a Jesuit college’s health care policy evidence of a failure in moral leadership. Faith is not the province of institutions. Rather, it is embodied in the actions of the faithful.

There is still a need for reverent thought and action in a secular world. The Church has battled a variety of heresies over the millennia. Pelagius, Menocchio, Joan of Arc, Bradford, Kepler, Copernicus, Darwin, Tielhard, and Dorothy Day all found themselves at odds with Church doctrine.

A relevant case for those in the Marquette community is that of Prof. Jodi O’Brien. Frankly, Marquette’s behavior in that matter was embarrassing for a university if not morally repugnant. It is the one time I was ashamed of Marquette. 

Jesuits have helped shape the collective intellectual conversation in ways far beyond their numbers. I hope they continue to do so with the rigor and honesty that has generally characterized the work of its gifted members.