Steve Taylor, Jr.

[tower912]

84, it could be as simple as " I cleared him. When I did,  I anticipated that his recovery would run a normal course.   It didn't.  There was a complication that we didn't anticipate and he regressed instead of improving."    No grand conspiracy.   Sometimes, recoveries don't go normally.   Willie, maybe Buzz hasn't said anything because the issue is still being discussed and debated internally and no final decision has been made.    

[LAMUfan]

Doctors do stuff like that all the time with workers compensation, nothing is for sure

[GooooMarquette]

You're forgetting one key piece of information: Taylor has ALREADY been cleared, not with a few games left, but 23 games left  Buzz sent him to check in. There IS NO season ending, incapacitating injury right now.  [Either that, or there IS such an injury and our medical staff are incompetents for missing it].

This isn't a 50/50 judgement call by the doctor.  This was (assuming he did his job) full evaluation, with xrays and imagaing and discussions with the patient--and after all that the doctor said Taylor was okay to put into a game.

Its almost frightening how some here casaully suggest that the same doctor(s) who cleared him will be able to come up with some retroactive diagnosis of "season ending injury--not cleared to play" that was missed.

Let's consider the doctor, who will have to go in on this deception by admitting his own incompetence: "I misdiagnored Taylor when I cleared him."  

What's his explanation to the medical review board and other patients?  "Hey, guys, don't sweat this--I just falsified that particular report. That patient was never really incapacitated. I just said he was so his basketball team could extend his eligibility. Trust me--I don't miss real injuries."  

I mean, come on.  At some point, do you think Marquette should play by the rules or not?  

It sure sounds like a bunch of people here are just fine if we cheat to give Taylor an extra year of eligibility in th 2017 season.  

Or it could just be stuff that happens.  Post-op patients' statuses change all the time.  One day, a post-op patient is doing great, next day, they need more treatment, a new operation, whatever.  Now, factor in that the patient isn't just trying to recover basic functioning...he's trying to recover to play high D-1 basketball.  No need to assume incompetence or cheating when you can find very plausible explanations in everyday life...

You seem to think that medical practice is a very cut and dried yes/no proposition.  It isn't.

[GooooMarquette]

What the hell?

He had knee surgery.  He was cleared.  He apparently had a set back and is having trouble.  That doesn't mean he was misdiagnosed.  It doesn't mean the doctor is incompetent.  

Patients don't heel on a straight line.  They can have set backs.  I had knee surgery about three years ago.  Everything was fine six months later.  Weeks went by with no pain at all.  I went on a hike and the next day my knee swelled up and I had to ice it down and let it rest for awhile.

Why is it so hard to believe this is the case?  According to some he looked real good in the scrimmage.  He looked good to me the first couple of games.  The last couple of games he played he looked awful.  Is Taylor dogging it to get another year?

Yep....

[MU82]

Yeah it's basketball and the Coach/CEO should clarify what the plans are or what the outlook is. Guess there is no plan.

Oh joyless wonder, if only you had the power to fire Buzz and rid us of this horrible coach who has lacked a plan of success for his entire time at Marquette.

[chapman]

You know we can't recruit big men when we cheat and selectively tank 2014 so we can keep one on the roster in 2017.

[mr.MUskie]

What the hell?

He had knee surgery.  He was cleared.  He apparently had a set back and is having trouble.  That doesn't mean he was misdiagnosed.  It doesn't mean the doctor is incompetent.  

Patients don't heel on a straight line.  They can have set backs.  I had knee surgery about three years ago.  Everything was fine six months later.  Weeks went by with no pain at all.  I went on a hike and the next day my knee swelled up and I had to ice it down and let it rest for awhile.

Why is it so hard to believe this is the case?  According to some he looked real good in the scrimmage.  He looked good to me the first couple of games.  The last couple of games he played he looked awful.  Is Taylor dogging it to get another year?

Neither does my dog.

[raul]

Why do we call him Steve Taylor Jr.? Isn't Steve Taylor enough?

[Nukem2]

Why do we call him Steve Taylor Jr.? Isn't Steve Taylor enough?

Its what he wants.

[Spotcheck Billy]

No because he has already played this year.

thanks

[The Equalizer]

What the hell?

He had knee surgery.  He was cleared.  He apparently had a set back and is having trouble.  That doesn't mean he was misdiagnosed.  It doesn't mean the doctor is incompetent.  

The "hell" comes down to a simple quesion:

Is Steve Taylor currently medically incapacitated with a season ending injury or not?

I say with what we know now, the answer is NO, given that he was available to be checked into a recent game.

If he actually is incapacitated, then MU's athletic tranining department perpetrated the mother of all screw-ups where neither head coach nor the player involved were actually aware of that fact, given that the head coach nearly inserted said player in the game, and said player started of to the scorers table to check in.

Just answer this one question--if Taylor is truly medically incapacitated as you seem to suggest, what possible string of events in your mind could have led to the situation where Taylor was very nearly put into a game?

Patients don't heel on a straight line.  They can have set backs.  I had knee surgery about three years ago.  Everything was fine six months later.  Weeks went by with no pain at all.  I went on a hike and the next day my knee swelled up and I had to ice it down and let it rest for awhile.

"Icing something down for a while" doesn't quite rise to the level of "medically incapacitated for the remainder of the season, don't you think?

And if you think such setbacks rise to the level of being incapaciating for the season, then once again, please explain how this situation could arise where Taylor was very nearly put into a game.

Why is it so hard to believe this is the case?  According to some he looked real good in the scrimmage.  He looked good to me the first couple of games.  The last couple of games he played he looked awful.  Is Taylor dogging it to get another year?

Why is it so hard to believe that Taylor is truly incapaciated with a season ending injury? I'll tell you why: 

BECAUSE TAYLOR WAS ALMOST CHECKED INTO A GAME!!!  IT DIDN"T OCCUR TO EITHER THE COACH OR THE PLAYER THAT THE PLAYER HAD PREVIOUSLY SUFFERED A SESAON ENDING INJURY THAT INCAPCITATED HIM!!!

The rules do not say that a player can get get a hardship waiver if he is able to play but looks awful.
The rules only say that a player can get a waiver if he can't play at all for the rest of the season.

Why is that so hard for you to believe?

[brewcity77]

What if playing risked doing significantly worse damage? Maybe he's healthy enough to play, but his knee is in such a state that doing so could wreck it for his career. I don't know, but I certainly think if the medical staff could show that continuing to play on it could risk further damage, that would qualify for him being medically incapacitated despite being healthy enough to go into a game.

[The Equalizer]

What if playing risked doing significantly worse damage? Maybe he's healthy enough to play, but his knee is in such a state that doing so could wreck it for his career. I don't know, but I certainly think if the medical staff could show that continuing to play on it could risk further damage, that would qualify for him being medically incapacitated despite being healthy enough to go into a game.

Lets put aside the fact that when the doctors clear a player as being "well enough to play," they already have taken into account the risk of significantly worse or career-wrecking damage or reinjury.

Putting that aside, don't you belive that Buzz would refuse to play someone who he felt had even the slightest chance of causing career-wrecking damage? 

Think about it.  You're saying the docs told Buzz before the game that Taylor was good enough to play, but he could suffer signficantly worse damage--maybe even wreck his career--if he actually got in a game. 

Buzz takes that nugget of information, files it away, and then when we're in the waning minutes of a blowout win, Buzz walks down to the bench and taps Taylor on the shoulder to check in--completely disregading the warning that the doctors gave him before the game. 

I'm going to give Buzz credit for always putting the health and safety of his players ahead of anything else.  If he sent Taylor to check in, then I'm satisfied that the possibility of a worse injury had passed or no longer existed.

[keefe]

You're probably right. I'm not gonna tell them, and, hard as it is to believe, they probably don't read Scoop when doing their research.

That's one hell of an assumption, Mister. Why wouldn't a hungry man walk into McDonalds?

[GGGG]

Why is it so hard to believe that Taylor is truly incapaciated with a season ending injury? I'll tell you why: 

BECAUSE TAYLOR WAS ALMOST CHECKED INTO A GAME!!!  IT DIDN"T OCCUR TO EITHER THE COACH OR THE PLAYER THAT THE PLAYER HAD PREVIOUSLY SUFFERED A SESAON ENDING INJURY THAT INCAPCITATED HIM!!!

The rules do not say that a player can get get a hardship waiver if he is able to play but looks awful.
The rules only say that a player can get a waiver if he can't play at all for the rest of the season.

Why is that so hard for you to believe?

I know you are our resident tinfoil hat wearer, but I think the explanation is simple.

Steve Taylor can likely play at the level at which he has shown the last few games, but not get any better if he continues to play.  Is that "incapacitated?"  Here is the definition:

"unable to work, move, or function in the usual way"

He certainly would seem to meet that definition right? 

So why was he almost checked into the IUPUI game?  My guess is that it was likely an oversight by Buzz, which was caught immediately by his staff.

It really isn't that hard. 

[GGGG]

And it looks like none of this matters since Taylor played yesterday.

[ecompt]

really stupid decision by Buzz. Now he can't redshirt in a season when it wouldn't matter if he played or not.

[GGGG]

really stupid decision by Buzz. Now he can't redshirt in a season when it wouldn't matter if he played or not.

Maybe the doctors think he can recover enough to play this year.

[brewcity77]

Or maybe they know the redshirt wouldn't be granted.

[mr.MUskie]

Or maybe they know the redshirt wouldn't be granted.

This.

[4everwarriors]

Probably Buzz wants to burn up the schollie to recruit someone better.

[The Equalizer]

And it looks like none of this matters since Taylor played yesterday.

Well, other than obvious vindication. 

Mabye it wasn't "tinfoil hat" after all to point out obvious things like Taylor didn't qualify for the medical hardship waiver because he wasn't injured serioulsy enough to qualify under the NCAA rules.

Maybe the doctors think he can recover enough to play this year.

Except you still have the tense wrong.  Its not "can recover.'" 

They already cleared him to play, before the IUPUI game.  Past tense.  History. 

The doctors obviously thought he HAD ALREADY RECOVERED enough to play, which at that point made him ineligible for a hardship waiver.

[GGGG]

Well, other than obvious vindication. 

Mabye it wasn't "tinfoil hat" after all to point out obvious things like Taylor didn't qualify for the medical hardship waiver because he wasn't injured serioulsy enough to qualify under the NCAA rules.

No, the tinfoil hat was the implication that either the coaches or the doctors were incompetent.  But if you want to feel vindicated, I can give you a gold star, pat you on your head, and send you home to show mom.

[MU82]

I'm just glad we can move on from the "maybe Taylor can redshirt" phase of our lives.

FWIW, Taylor took the ball to the hoop nicely a few seconds after entering the game. The shot sat on the rim and didn't fall, but he looked quick and fluid.

Even though I was never among the Scoopers who thought Taylor was destined to be a star, I still think he has some talent and I hope Buzz now will start working him back into the rotation some.

[The Equalizer]

No, the tinfoil hat was the implication that either the coaches or the doctors were incompetent.  But if you want to feel vindicated, I can give you a gold star, pat you on your head, and send you home to show mom.

Wouldn't you agree that if a player was in danger of having his career ruined or suffering severe injury by playing, a) the doctors would made damn sure that he was in street clothes, and b) even if he wasn't, the coach would know better than to put such a player in the game?

And wouldn't you agree that if the doctors believed that such a medical condition existed, but didn't tell the coach or actually place a medical restriction on the player, those doctors would be incompetent?  

And wouldn't you agree that if a coach got that message from the doctors that a players career coudld be ruined or could suffer severe damage if he played, if that coach tried to put that player in the game, he'd be incompetent?  

Look, its YOUR argument that you believe Steve was so severly injured to the point he couldn't play the rest of the season.  And its YOUR argument that despite such injury the doctors didn't take him out of the lineup.  And its YOUR argument Buzz knew about the danger of this injury, but was so situationally unaware that he sent Taylor into a game.  And you merely call all that "an oversight."

Lets face it--such an egregious "oversight" wouldn't be an alternative to incompetence. It would be evidence of it.  

The problem is that you can't come up with one rational explanation (other than incompetence) as to how Taylor could find himself heading up to the scorers table to check in if he truly was  currently suffering a season-ending, incapacitating injury.

Look, the correct answer all along was that Taylor was cleared by the doctors to play (or never medically restricted in the first place), which would make him ineligible for a medical redshirt.  The silliness was all yours in trying to find some way to thread a straight pin and explain how Taylor could be both injured and not injured at the same time.