Wiscy Box Score

[MU82]

I don't care what practice looks like, I care about games. 

When you apply to be a Division I basketball coach, this philosophy should work well in your interview with the AD and school president.

[GGGG]

So why don't Derrick and Jake play the passing lanes more often and try to create some turnovers?  

Ask Buzz.

[Let's Go Warriors]

Ask Buzz.

Just watching them both enough now.  Neither has the quickness or defensive anticipation skills to pull this off.  When a defender is quicker he gets to where he belongs in the defensive rotation a split second sooner.  This gives him the ability to read the passing lanes and anticipate more often.

[NersEllenson]

When you apply to be a Division I basketball coach, this philosophy should work well in your interview with the AD and school president.

Well, pretty sure we won't have to ever worry about this becoming a reality.     And guess my Allen Iverson, we talkin about practice - point - may not be a good one.  The overriding point is, is that Derrick and Jake have been given plenty of opportunities to show what they can do in a game - why not get a benchmark of what things would be like if you gave Dawson/JJJ/Burton the same opportunity?

As for Juan Anderson - he's no more than a Joe Fulce - a great energy/glue guy - should get 10-15 minutes a game.  I feel about 1000 times more confident when Burton attacks the hoop than Juan...and Juan's perimeter game is lackluster as well - but again, as an energy player getting 10-15 minutes a game - a great role for him/asset to the team.

[forgetful]

I do find it remarkable that they were in the game, when the production of your 39 minute PG and 28 minute Shooting Guard, was as paltry as it was.  Says a lot for Devante and Jamil.  If only our major minute guards could bring some scoring or forced turnovers to the table - perhaps we'd have won at WI or the other decent opponents we've played.

You ever think that is how the offense is designed and not so much a product of the players. 

[MU82]

Just watching them both enough now.  Neither has the quickness or defensive anticipation skills to pull this off.  When a defender is quicker he gets to where he belongs in the defensive rotation a split second sooner.  This gives him the ability to read the passing lanes and anticipate more often.

I coached a 7th-8th grade team a few years ago. We played a 2-3 zone and our guards got a lot of steals. We had a rematch against an opponent who had beaten us earlier in the season and we thought we'd try man-to-man for a spell just to switch things up. So we practiced it at length the two days before the game and then opened in a man-to-man. It was disaster. Not only didn't our guards get many steals, but they kept getting beaten by their assigned players because their instincts told them to gamble for steals.

Point is, some players have it in them only to play certain styles. To force square pegs into round holes usually hurts matters rather than helps them.

Derrick and Jake are who they are.

[MU82]

You ever think that is how the offense is designed and not so much a product of the players. 

No. Because there have been a few occasions (too few) in which Derrick has driven to the hoop and created for himself and others. Buzz would LOVE to have that on a regular basis. Any coach would from his PG.

[ChicosBailBonds]

No. Because there have been a few occasions (too few) in which Derrick has driven to the hoop and created for himself and others. Buzz would LOVE to have that on a regular basis. Any coach would from his PG.

Then he needs to recruit a PG that is capable of such accomplishments.  That's my biggest beef with all of this and I've said it for 4+ years.  I like the idea of the versatility of switchables, it makes sense, but you can't ignore the engine.  The engine is the point guard.  I thought JC was adequate, but not great....not in the tradition of very good point guards that we have had at MU over the years in Diener, Miller, James, Johnson, etc.  Hopefully Duane is that guy, but I remain concerned about what seems to be less emphasis on getting stud point guards (for which there are FAR FAR more than stud big men).  My two cents.

[MU82]

Reasonable. And doable.

[NersEllenson]

You ever think that is how the offense is designed and not so much a product of the players. 

No coach would ever design an offense to get that little production from their PG and Shooting Guard.  Their lack of production, just makes it that much more challenging for Devante and Jamil to get off.

Posted this elsewhere - Jamil has caught some hell here - but if you are an opposing coach and you are facing a starting lineup featuring Derrick, Jake, Juan, Chris and Jamil - which guy do you think is going to get the most attention?  Who is the most threatening player in the mix?  Jamil and only Jamil!!  Makes it that much for difficult for him to get off.

[tower912]

You ever think that is how the offense is designed and not so much a product of the players. 

No.  The offense is the same one that got consistently open looks for Mo, Cubi, DJO, Buycks, Lazar, JFB, Jae......      Movement, read, dribble, react, drive, dish, repeat.    In some ways, it is more efficient without a true low post player.   But players who can attack and make shots are vital. 

[GGGG]

Then he needs to recruit a PG that is capable of such accomplishments.  That's my biggest beef with all of this and I've said it for 4+ years.  I like the idea of the versatility of switchables, it makes sense, but you can't ignore the engine.  The engine is the point guard.  I thought JC was adequate, but not great....not in the tradition of very good point guards that we have had at MU over the years in Diener, Miller, James, Johnson, etc.  Hopefully Duane is that guy, but I remain concerned about what seems to be less emphasis on getting stud point guards (for which there are FAR FAR more than stud big men).  My two cents.

Duane Wilson this year.  Nick Nostowiak (#7 PG in the country by Scout) in 2015.  They were in on a couple in 2014 but it didn't work out.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Duane Wilson this year.  Nick Nostowiak (#7 PG in the country by Scout) in 2015.  They were in on a couple in 2014 but it didn't work out.

That's the saving grace, at least that is my hope.  You never know until they actually set foot on campus, but I sure hope they are what their press clippings state they are.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The overriding point is, is that Derrick and Jake have been given plenty of opportunities to show what they can do in a game - why not get a benchmark of what things would be like if you gave Dawson/JJJ/Burton the same opportunity?

The guys play/practice every single day. Buzz sees these guys for hours and hours per week.

The back-ups have plenty of opportunity to prove they should get minutes.

Watch this videos. LISTEN TO WHAT BUZZ IS SAYING.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nf7SuRwIfE&feature=youtu.be&t=8m54s

http://youtu.be/uC7QEOa_MCo?t=6m23s

You can whine all you want on this message board, but players get the minutes they EARN. This ain't new.

[NersEllenson]

The guys play/practice every single day. Buzz sees these guys for hours and hours per week.

The back-ups have plenty of opportunity to prove they should get minutes.

Watch this videos. LISTEN TO WHAT BUZZ IS SAYING.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nf7SuRwIfE&feature=youtu.be&t=8m54s

http://youtu.be/uC7QEOa_MCo?t=6m23s

You can whine all you want on this message board, but players get the minutes they EARN. This ain't new.

I get it Guns...you keep bringing up the same video over and over - and I keep making the same point over and over - given the continued over and over and over piss poor performance of our backcourt.  I don't care if Derrick and Jake are tougher than Dawson and JJJ - I care about guys who can freaking play at this level. 

UW got 35 points and 11 assists from its backcourt.  We got 3 points and 2 assists - if you want to add Juan to Derrick and Jake - we got 11 points and 2 assists.  Talk about being dominated - so, I'd hypothesize Derrick and Jake simply aren't that tough apparently.

[forgetful]

No.  The offense is the same one that got consistently open looks for Mo, Cubi, DJO, Buycks, Lazar, JFB, Jae......      Movement, read, dribble, react, drive, dish, repeat.    In some ways, it is more efficient without a true low post player.   But players who can attack and make shots are vital. 

It is a vastly different offense when we have two post players on the blocks at all times.  It creates more east west dribbling instead of north/south, because the middle is constantly occupied with 2 MU players and their defenders.  Not sufficient space for the penetration. 

Rather any offense is suppose to be generated by entry passes into the post and if the defense allows (i.e. doubling the post) a kick out to the perimeter players.  It is not designed in the vein of penetrate and dish as it has in the past because of the emphasis on the low post game.  This does not allow for creation of shots for perimeter players and it is not the goal of the offense.  Buzz has tried to adapt to this years strength (the post) similar to how he has every year, the problem is that the offense is still a work in progress at this point and will likely take the rest of preseason to properly execute.

The couple drives that D. Wilson has made have resulted from his defender doubling the post and him being able to "curl drive" around the two low post players or drive from the top of the key undefended. 

Jake's/Mayo/JJJ defenders are instructed to never leave their man regardless of whether the on ball defender is beat.  Why?  Because unlike previous seasons, there are always two bigs defending in the lane (because of two post players), the bigs can act as the help for both the penetration and the drive and dish to a big (other big can help).  Similarly, the drive and dish to the perimeter players is not possible, because they are neither sagging or helping on penetration. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I get it Guns...you keep bringing up the same video over and over - and I keep making the same point over and over - given the continued over and over and over piss poor performance of our backcourt.  I don't care if Derrick and Jake are tougher than Dawson and JJJ - I care about guys who can freaking play at this level.  

UW got 35 points and 11 assists from its backcourt.  We got 3 points and 2 assists - if you want to add Juan to Derrick and Jake - we got 11 points and 2 assists.  Talk about being dominated - so, I'd hypothesize Derrick and Jake simply aren't that tough apparently.

And again, the players have plenty of time during the week to PROVE they should play.

I'm sure Buzz doesn't want to play Derrick 35+ min. He sees what's happening.

But, if Dawson is getting his ass kicked in practice everyday, what is Buzz supposed to do? Give Dawson 30min. in a game so he can play poorly and prove to the internet that he's not ready for real minutes?

Buzz Williams isn't infallible. However, Buzz is a basketball expert, and he sees these kids play ALL OF THE TIME. I trust his judgement.

If/when the newer guys start out-performing the older guys, they will get significant minutes in meaningful games. That's how it works. Buzz has never handed anything to anybody.

EDIT
One more thing, if the back-up players are actually outperforming the starters in practice, and Buzz is simply being too stubborn or loyal to the older guys, then he should be fired immediately. I'm not kidding.

[jesmu84]

prove to the internet

Duh. We're the only ones that matter

[NersEllenson]

And again, the players have plenty of time during the week to PROVE they should play.

I'm sure Buzz doesn't want to play Derrick 35+ min. He sees what's happening.

But, if Dawson is getting his ass kicked in practice everyday, what is Buzz supposed to do? Give Dawson 30min. in a game so he can play poorly and prove to the internet that he's not ready for real minutes?

Buzz Williams isn't infallible. However, Buzz is a basketball expert, and he sees these kids play ALL OF THE TIME. I trust his judgement.

If/when the newer guys start out-performing the older guys, they will get significant minutes in meaningful games. That's how it works. Buzz has never handed anything to anybody.

EDIT
One more thing, if the back-up players are actually outperforming the starters in practice, and Buzz is simply being too stubborn or loyal to the older guys, then he should be fired immediately. I'm not kidding.

Considering Derrick Wilson has yet to show he can outperform any point guard, much less own them or kick their ass from a basketball perspective - highly doubt Derrick is just lighting Dawson up in practice. 

[MU82]

Considering Derrick Wilson has yet to show he can outperform any point guard, much less own them or kick their ass from a basketball perspective - highly doubt Derrick is just lighting Dawson up in practice. 

But you don't know.

If Derrick IS lighting up Dawson in practice -- and by lighting up, it might mean playing way better defensive, committing fewer turnovers, etc. -- it doesn't speak very highly of Dawson.

I coach a girls middle school team. After the second game, I got an email from the mother of the worst player on the team complaining about playing time. She said, "From what I can see, xxxxx is no worse than any other player on the team." To which I very nicely answered, "I see all of the girls in practice and each earned precisely the amount of minutes each deserved."

I'm sure the mother was unsatisfied with my response, just as you are unsatisfied with Buzz's regarding Wilson and Dawson.

Again, you don't know what goes on at Warriors practice, and neither do I.

[NersEllenson]

But you don't know.

If Derrick IS lighting up Dawson in practice -- and by lighting up, it might mean playing way better defensive, committing fewer turnovers, etc. -- it doesn't speak very highly of Dawson.

I coach a girls middle school team. After the second game, I got an email from the mother of the worst player on the team complaining about playing time. She said, "From what I can see, xxxxx is no worse than any other player on the team." To which I very nicely answered, "I see all of the girls in practice and each earned precisely the amount of minutes each deserved."

I'm sure the mother was unsatisfied with my response, just as you are unsatisfied with Buzz's regarding Wilson and Dawson.

Again, you don't know what goes on at Warriors practice, and neither do I.

Totally agree with the bolded - just know what goes on during Warrior games, and I've seen enough to know Derrick and Jake aren't the answer.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Totally agree with the bolded - just know what goes on during Warrior games, and I've seen enough to know Derrick and Jake aren't the answer.

You're mixing to things together.

Derrick and Jake might not be "the answer". They might be the worst starting guard combo in the conference. There is a legitimate chance that they are.

However...

That doesn't mean that Dawson and JJJ are better options at this time.

To put it another way: Why do you think Buzz is still playing Jake and Derrick? If he had better options on the bench, wouldn't he play them? The "loyalty" thing you mentioned earlier this season has to have run out by now, right?

[brewcity77]

But Guns...

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

But Guns...

Logic is always better. 

Just because (insert player) is bad, doesn't mean the guy behind him in the depth chart is better.

[brewcity77]

Logic is always better. 

Just because (insert player) is bad, doesn't mean the guy behind him in the depth chart is better.

Pfft...you and your silly logic