Save Season Sit Thomas & Otule

[PGsHeroes32]

When did you guys become trolls?   Jake with 9 in the first half.   Just like the question of who to start at the point, Buzz knows much more than you. 

Jake is fine in a role. Like Chris. Like Juan. Like Derrick.

All 4 together is a disaster. It's proven every game.

[brewcity77]

Yeah you are pretty entertaining

You just give your higher than all insight. Then when proven wrong deflect with no support.

But hey if you like losing basketball games that's your choice.

Are we losing today? Did I miss that? And are Thomas and Otule the reasons we lost against tOSU and ASU? Did Jamil Wilson and Todd not miss tons of open looks against Ohio State? Did our entire offense not start ice cold against ASU before Jake fired us back into the game? Yes, he missed what would have been a crucial shot, but not until after numerous makes that put us in the position to even take that shot.

It's comic relief because you make the same tired arguments that are simply not based in reality, and there's no real point in arguing with you because you have no concept of how this game seems to be played. You can have blatant evidence in front of you, presented in 10 different ways, only one of which you would need to understand, and yet you still bang the same stupid arguments out time after time.

That's why it's funny. Because if anyone took you seriously, they'd probably go insane. Easier just to laugh.

[NersEllenson]

Are we losing today? Did I miss that? And are Thomas and Otule the reasons we lost against tOSU and ASU? Did Jamil Wilson and Todd not miss tons of open looks against Ohio State? Did our entire offense not start ice cold against ASU before Jake fired us back into the game? Yes, he missed what would have been a crucial shot, but not until after numerous makes that put us in the position to even take that shot.

It's comic relief because you make the same tired arguments that are simply not based in reality, and there's no real point in arguing with you because you have no concept of how this game seems to be played. You can have blatant evidence in front of you, presented in 10 different ways, only one of which you would need to understand, and yet you still bang the same stupid arguments out time after time.

That's why it's funny. Because if anyone took you seriously, they'd probably go insane. Easier just to laugh.

Too ironically funny.  This has been a blast watching Derrick "orchestrate" this offense the whole second half.  No coincidence we looked our best today when he took Derrick to the bench (or foul trouble) took Derrick to the bench the last 10 minutes of the 1st half.

[PGsHeroes32]

Are we losing today? Did I miss that? And are Thomas and Otule the reasons we lost against tOSU and ASU? Did Jamil Wilson and Todd not miss tons of open looks against Ohio State? Did our entire offense not start ice cold against ASU before Jake fired us back into the game? Yes, he missed what would have been a crucial shot, but not until after numerous makes that put us in the position to even take that shot.

It's comic relief because you make the same tired arguments that are simply not based in reality, and there's no real point in arguing with you because you have no concept of how this game seems to be played. You can have blatant evidence in front of you, presented in 10 different ways, only one of which you would need to understand, and yet you still bang the same stupid arguments out time after time.

That's why it's funny. Because if anyone took you seriously, they'd probably go insane. Easier just to laugh.

Omg did you pass 3rd grade reading? Seriously?  I DIDN'T BLAME THEM. I said the STARTING UNIT as a whole is a disaster. You say you watch both ends...ok. ASU down by double digits before we could blink. Yesterday even Fullerton rained 3s. OSU second half, OSU made adjustments and scored at will first 6 possession out of gate vs the DEFENSIVE STUDS. Today, GW came out and scored 8 quick ones. The "bad d" with Todd and Davante had them scoreless for 5 possessions.

Now on offense. Jake made shots vs ASU yes!!! With Davante and Jamil on the floor and JJJ too. That is MY POINT. You can have Jake out there, but you need two of the other guys too. You can have Chris...but you need two scorers.

I don't think we need to mentioned the vaunted slow starts last year with Gardner on the bench.

[Galway Eagle]

Omg did you pass 3rd grade reading? Seriously?  I DIDN'T BLAME THEM. I said the STARTING UNIT as a whole is a disaster. You say you watch both ends...ok. ASU down by double digits before we could blink. Yesterday even Fullerton rained 3s. OSU second half, OSU made adjustments and scored at will first 6 possession out of gate vs the DEFENSIVE STUDS. Today, GW came out and scored 8 quick ones. The "bad d" with Todd and Davante had them scoreless for 5 possessions.

Now on offense. Jake made shots vs ASU yes!!! With Davante and Jamil on the floor and JJJ too. That is MY POINT. You can have Jake out there, but you need two of the other guys too. You can have Chris...but you need two scorers.

I don't think we need to mentioned the vaunted slow starts last year with Gardner on the bench.

This was your 2013th post and it's the year 2013! If I were you I just wouldn't post again and ruin that. 

[PGsHeroes32]

This was your 2013th post and it's the year 2013! If I were you I just wouldn't post again and ruin that. 

nice observation, but....

Derrick able to attack so much more with davante and jamil out there.

I love it. He becomes a threat too.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I still dont get the hate for Otule. Look what he did against Notre Dame last year. He does other things as well which dont show up in the stat sheet, like creat seals and things like that. Hes gonna be playing and hes fine. We would be in a lot of trouble without Otule.

[Galway Eagle]

I still dont get the hate for Otule. Look what he did against Notre Dame last year. He does other things as well which dont show up in the stat sheet, like creat seals and things like that. Hes gonna be playing and hes fine. We would be in a lot of trouble without Otule.

I agree we'd be in trouble without him, if only there was a time when he's been injured where we could actually prove it though. 

[tower912]

Too ironically funny.  This has been a blast watching Derrick "orchestrate" this offense the whole second half.  No coincidence we looked our best today when he took Derrick to the bench (or foul trouble) took Derrick to the bench the last 10 minutes of the 1st half.

You are becoming as stubborn and wrongheaded as willie.  The offense bogged down in the first half when buzz went big with Jamil at the point.   The team quit passing and cutting in the second half, instead trying to pound it into the post.   When everyone stands around, the offense stagnates.  

[willie warrior]

What had Burton done? Outside of a 3/13 shooting day against the worst D1 team maybe ever, he hasn't done anything, and that's not a knock on him as he's a freshman.

Up until the last 2 games Otule has outplayed Gardner this year and his defensive presence is night and day compared to Gardner's lack of defense.

Mayo loves to chuck. Until he learns to play within the flow of the offense we're better off with him on the bench.

Coming off of our best 3 halves of basketball this year (besides Grambling who really doesn't count), this is an odd time to be making threads like this.

Do not know what games you have been watching, but Otule has not outplayed Gardner. Gardner has many more rebounds, many more points, more blocks, more assists and less TO's. And defense--I do not see that major of a difference when compared to all the other things Gardner brings. If Otule is that great at D, where are all the blocks, considering that he has been the tallest player in all but one game? Give it a rest. Oh that is right, Otule is the next Roy Hibbert.

[Galway Eagle]

Do not know what games you have been watching, but Otule has not outplayed Gardner. Gardner has many more rebounds, many more points, more blocks, more assists and less TO's. And defense--I do not see that major of a difference when compared to all the other things Gardner brings. If Otule is that great at D, where are all the blocks, considering that he has been the tallest player in all but one game? Give it a rest. Oh that is right, Otule is the next Roy Hibbert.

Otule outplayed Gardner in the Grambling state game and the New Hampshire game. 

[PGsHeroes32]

Otule outplayed Gardner in the Grambling state game and the New Hampshire game. 

and that right there has been my point, idk about his.

Chris can put up some points against really bad teams where he just does the easy two handed dunk for a 6-6 day.

But against any team with a pulse he's basically a negative on O.

That's why I like him for the tip and the first whistle or so and then DG time...like today.

[Galway Eagle]

and that right there has been my point, idk about his.

Chris can put up some points against really bad teams where he just does the easy two handed dunk for a 6-6 day.

But against any team with a pulse he's basically a negative on O.

That's why I like him for the tip and the first whistle or so and then DG time...like today.

New Hampshire... remember we only won by 5.  I'll agree with you about Grambling but not the New Hampshire game.

[muchamps]

Agree - not sure why a coach would want to dig a hole early in every game - which is what you are basically asking for with Derrick, Otule, and Jake.  Feel Jake and Chris are situational players...with Chris actually filling more situations.  Just don't see what Jake does better than Todd or JJJ.

You must start your BEST team against the top 25, playing from behind,"we lose".

[PGsHeroes32]

New Hampshire... remember we only won by 5.  I'll agree with you about Grambling but not the New Hampshire game.

Well yeah we played awful that game. They are not a good team and don't have much size which is my point. Only 2 boards against those guys.

He does deserve credit for showing up though. Davante had a awful game against a team he should own and as a result we barely won at home. So yes, Chris def should be praised for being a big key in that win.

Just saying, he doesn't have many of those games against the stiffer competition. Which is fine, that isn't his role. I just think we are so much better with 2-3 of our scorers out there with 2-3 of our role guys. That way we have some punch, and everyone knows what they are capable of.

[tower912]

Who are our scorers?   Beyond DG, it varies from game to game.  Today, it was Juan, Derrick and Jake.   DG can and looked awful, lazy and uninterested, against tOSU.   Should he have been on the floor?   Todd was the only guy in double figures and we had guys ripping him for attacking and missing so much.    So, saying that 2-3 of our scorers should be on the floor, but it isn't that simple. 

[brewcity77]

Who are our scorers?   Beyond DG, it varies from game to game.  Today, it was Juan, Derrick and Jake.   DG can and looked awful, lazy and uninterested, against tOSU.   Should he have been on the floor?   Todd was the only guy in double figures and we had guys ripping him for attacking and missing so much.    So, saying that 2-3 of our scorers should be on the floor, but it isn't that simple. 

This is why it's nice having a roster full of high-major players. Yes, it leads to transfers, but in this young season, only 7 games old, we've already had TEN different players score in double-digits. This is what Buzz wants, and what much of this board continues to miss. Buzz is creating a culture that is about the team and riding the hot hand. You don't need everyone to be on every night as long as you have numerous guys that can go off at any time.

[PGsHeroes32]

Who are our scorers?   Beyond DG, it varies from game to game.  Today, it was Juan, Derrick and Jake.   DG can and looked awful, lazy and uninterested, against tOSU.   Should he have been on the floor?   Todd was the only guy in double figures and we had guys ripping him for attacking and missing so much.    So, saying that 2-3 of our scorers should be on the floor, but it isn't that simple. 

DG, Jamil, Todd and still in my mind JJJ. Those are the 4 guys the d has to respect at all times. The role guys score better with a handful of them in the game. These are also coincidentally are the 4 with the game on the line we would want icing it with the freebies(Jake too as he has a nice stroke but missed some lately for some reason).

Heck, JuJuan basically did nothing today...good or bad. But in the 1st half we went on that run with him joining Todd and Davante out there. Teams know they have to guard them. Juan got the ball open at the 3 like 7 times today. I loved when he confidently shot it the one time. The other time he pulled it down, got trapped and threw it away leading to fast break and Jamils second foul.

So hopefully for final time.

Any combo of 2-3 Ox, JJJ, Jamil, Todd with 2-3 of Juan, Jake, Derrick, Ox.....and I think we have a very nice 8 man foundation.  I just don't like those starting 4 together, 3 of them is even fine because as you see they can score at times but the D needs another threat to key on.

Steve and Deonte get mixed in obviously these two must require some veteran prescence with them.

Thing I hate is this whole "there are two ends" when in reality all of our upperclassmen hold their own on D. Chris, DG, Jamil(when not committing dumb fouls), Todd, Jake, Juan, Derrick. They all play solid D and rebound the ball well for their positions. So there a "defensive" lineup doesn't make sense.

[PGsHeroes32]

This is why it's nice having a roster full of high-major players. Yes, it leads to transfers, but in this young season, only 7 games old, we've already had TEN different players score in double-digits. This is what Buzz wants, and what much of this board continues to miss. Buzz is creating a culture that is about the team and riding the hot hand. You don't need everyone to be on every night as long as you have numerous guys that can go off at any time.

I agree with this. It's also why the last few years we have had so many STOG winners...until jae went beast mode late two years ago.

I just like when we blend the two groups together because it seems like everyone starts scoring better.

[NersEllenson]

You are becoming as stubborn and wrongheaded as willie.  The offense bogged down in the first half when buzz went big with Jamil at the point.   The team quit passing and cutting in the second half, instead trying to pound it into the post.   When everyone stands around, the offense stagnates.  

Sorry Tower....generally agree with your assessments, but we simply disagree on Derrick.  In today's game Buzz only ran Jamil at the point for about 2 minutes in the first half.  Derrick went to the bench at the 7 minute mark and we were up 10...Dawson came in at 5:30 and our lead ballooned up to 21 at the half.

Derrick made couple of nice baskets off of cuts at the basket...and one hesitant drive in the 2nd half that he scored on and got fouled.  He needs to make 75% of his shots that come at point blank range, as he did today...and he converted his free throws.  He played a decent game today - yet I think if there are complaints about how the team stopped passing and cutting in the 2nd half and everyone is standing around - it's the point guards job to get the action on the floor taking place that isn't stagnant.  I just find the offense very stagnant with Derrick running the point.

[willie warrior]

Otule outplayed Gardner in the Grambling state game and the New Hampshire game. 

maybe one of those games--when he is 6 inches taller than his defender. take Gardner over Otule any day.

[willie warrior]

Sorry Tower....generally agree with your assessments, but we simply disagree on Derrick.  In today's game Buzz only ran Jamil at the point for about 2 minutes in the first half.  Derrick went to the bench at the 7 minute mark and we were up 10...Dawson came in at 5:30 and our lead ballooned up to 21 at the half.

Derrick made couple of nice baskets off of cuts at the basket...and one hesitant drive in the 2nd half that he scored on and got fouled.  He needs to make 75% of his shots that come at point blank range, as he did today...and he converted his free throws.  He played a decent game today - yet I think if there are complaints about how the team stopped passing and cutting in the 2nd half and everyone is standing around - it's the point guards job to get the action on the floor taking place that isn't stagnant.  I just find the offense very stagnant with Derrick running the point.

Ners: An expert on stubbornness and wrongheadedness.

[BallBoy]

Sorry Tower....generally agree with your assessments, but we simply disagree on Derrick.  In today's game Buzz only ran Jamil at the point for about 2 minutes in the first half.  Derrick went to the bench at the 7 minute mark and we were up 10...Dawson came in at 5:30 and our lead ballooned up to 21 at the half.

Derrick made couple of nice baskets off of cuts at the basket...and one hesitant drive in the 2nd half that he scored on and got fouled.  He needs to make 75% of his shots that come at point blank range, as he did today...and he converted his free throws.  He played a decent game today - yet I think if there are complaints about how the team stopped passing and cutting in the 2nd half and everyone is standing around - it's the point guards job to get the action on the floor taking place that isn't stagnant.  I just find the offense very stagnant with Derrick running the point.

Your recollection is as faulty as your assessment of talent.  According to ESPN MU was up by 13 when Derrick Wilson got a defensive rebound and which lead to a mayo layup. MU up 15. I can't see the exact time Wilson left the game but the next dead ball was at the 5:03 mark.  The lead then ballooned (by five points). In the balloon period, Dawson did not have an assist or rebound. He did hit his one basket of the game. Seeing how Dawson only played 4 minutes it is more likely MU was already up 17 when he came in.

Looking at the stat line Wilson has 13pts, 4 asts, 2 TO and 4 rebounds. Dawson had 3 points. It is only close in your mind.

[PGsHeroes32]

Yeah the lead ballooned when Mayo came into the game. DW was still in for a lot of that.

Dawson did have a very nice pass to DG though. Didn't get an assist because DG biffed the first shot but got his own rebound.

but ballboy is right that Wilson was in for most of the time.

[tower912]

Ners, a question.  Last year, if Junior had put up a 11 pt, 4 assist game in a 16 pt win, would you have argued that Derrick needed more run.  If not, how can you make the equivalent argument this year.   I don't question your love of MU, you just have a blind spot when it comes to Derrick, IMO.