It isn't rocket science...

[NersEllenson]

In other words...ME LIKE POINTS!

Ahh try....me would like the guy who gets the most minutes on the team to not be DEAD last in scoring....and yeah...I'd hope his rebounds and assists per game are among the highest when he's getting the most minutes.  Look at Derrick from a statistical perspective of Per 40 and it is horrific...Derrick gets about 1 assist every 7 minutes....so call it 5.5 assists per 40 minutes played....hardly amazing performance when your points per 40 goes all the way up to 1.03 points per 40.

[NersEllenson]

Backup QB/PG = most popular guy on any struggling team.

Well when your starting QB would have a rating of about 35....it's pretty likely the backup wouldn't be any worse.

[NersEllenson]

Name one time that Buzz has done this previously.  Name one time when he started and played a senior and sat a more talented player behind him.

The only possible one is when he started Buycks over Junior, but I think that is quite debatable.  

Obviously I've been one of Buzz's biggest fans...and continue to be...doesn't mean I'm always going to be 100% in agreement with every decision he makes...but....he did mention several times last year that he thought Derrick deserved to play more than Junior...but out of loyalty to Junior..he was going to ride him...

So....it is entirely possible that Derrick Wilson shows a lot more in practice than he has in games, or Buzz's radar is just way off on Derrick - because what Junior did last year and Derrick has shown thus far this year.....not even a contest...

[brandx]

Is it? If Jamil can play the point legitimately (a big if, considering how he dribbles and we've yet to see him handle real pressure) at a decent level, I have no problem with Steve, Juan, and Deonte handling the burdens at the 3/4 with Davante getting some time there in a jumbo package.

I agree Jamil is our best 3/4 switchable, and Derrick is our best pure point, but if we go to next man up, it seems pretty clear Steve, Juan, and Deonte are more ready for the role of filling Jamil's shoes than anyone else is for filling Derrick's.

I think Juan played about 25 minutes last night. And clearly, he hustled more than any player on either team last night. Hence, increased playing time.

[MUSF]

Well when your starting QB would have a rating of about 35....it's pretty likely the backup wouldn't be any worse.

From a fans' perspective sure, but fans don't see what happens in practice or how much respect each respective player has with their teammates. That is why I trust Buzz at this point. I was certainly surprised that Dawson didn't see the floor against OSU, but I'm not at practice or in the locker room.

Now, I hope Buzz is developing some alternate options to address some of our weaknesses while he helps the starters work through their struggles, but I don't think yanking established guys after a few games is necessarily the recipe for success. The CBB season isn't a sprint. Let's see where we're at in a few months before advocating massive changes.

[NersEllenson]

I think Juan played about 25 minutes last night. And clearly, he hustled more than any player on either team last night. Hence, increased playing time.

I agree with you - thought Juan was at least all over the place with hustle last night and did impact the game positively.  Reminds me of Joe Fulce.  Not sure Juan is yet a 25 minute player....but Buzz will reward the effort, and effort alone because that is what he seems to be more frustrated with than anything at this point.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Obviously I've been one of Buzz's biggest fans...and continue to be...doesn't mean I'm always going to be 100% in agreement with every decision he makes...but....he did mention several times last year that he thought Derrick deserved to play more than Junior...but out of loyalty to Junior..he was going to ride him...

So....it is entirely possible that Derrick Wilson shows a lot more in practice than he has in games, or Buzz's radar is just way off on Derrick - because what Junior did last year and Derrick has shown thus far this year.....not even a contest...

The toughest guys will get to play.

Dawson's just not ready yet, and that's ok.

Buzz will work it out.

[MUSF]

Just a thought on the title of this thread...

I would bet there are more rocket scientists employed in this country than D1 bball coaches. Coaching at this level certainly isn't as easy as the title implies.

[BCHoopster]

I agree with you - thought Juan was at least all over the place with hustle last night and did impact the game positively.  Reminds me of Joe Fulce.  Not sure Juan is yet a 25 minute player....but Buzz will reward the effort, and effort alone because that is what he seems to be more frustrated with than anything at this point.

I have to disagree about Juan, MU does need hustle players, they need a player or two who can score.  To me, Juan is just a player, he looked great in his senior video but I have seen
nothing that resembles that now.  Has no feel on the offensive end,  I thought he could be at least a 10 point scorer, maybe something will click.  Maybe he just needs to hit a few shots
to get going.  Hard to play 3 on 5 with Derrick in the game as well.

[brewcity77]

Seriously, if guys are hitting open shots, is anyone pissing and moaning about all this? Hit the bunnies against tOSU and half the wide-open threes and we win the game, are 4-0, and if we hit open shots in the other games, we win them all comfortably.

This all comes down to guys missing open shots. Gardner's FG% is down over 12% from last year. Jamil's is down over 13%. Jake is down 5%. That's three of the top four in terms of attempts who have seen a significant drop in their field goal percentage.

[NotAnAlum]

Of course people would be happier if they were making their shots.  But that is the whole point.  This team is not a very good outside shooting team.  They weren't last year and they won't be this year.  MU teams during Buzz's tenure (with the exception of Lazar and the midgets year) have not been great shooting teams.  They have been drive and dish and drive to the rim teams, make your living on the line teams.  Now our starting point guard can't drive and can't pass off the dribble.  Of course he doesn't have many turnovers, he never dribbles inside the 3 point line.  The starting 2 (Jake) can't drive or pass off the dribble.  Juan can't either.  That leaves only Mayo and he can drive but he doesn't pass much.  Buzz realizes this and its a fundamental problem (not a cold streak that will fix itself).  He knows the guards on the court ARE UNABLE to play the way his past 7 years of teams have played.  He's trying to change the way they play by relying on fast passing (did you notice all the skip passes last night).  The problem is that this type of passing games ultimately relies on good perimeter shooting (the way Wisconsin plays) and as BUZZ WOULD SAY WE ARE NOT BUILT THAT WAY.  This is a serious problem and you are kidding yourself if you think its just a cold streak.  Sure they will get hot from time to time and they will win those games (probably) but unless something changes they are going to lose more than they win.
The only hope I believe is to have JJJ start hitting the outside shot he was recruited for.  Have Duane Wilson come back and shoot well and have Burton and Dawson get more confident to drive the lane.  In otherwords we have to depend on the as yet unproven talent of the freshman to fix our backcourt because we can't play the basketball we are BUILT FOR with what is out there now.   

[GGGG]

Obviously I've been one of Buzz's biggest fans...and continue to be...doesn't mean I'm always going to be 100% in agreement with every decision he makes...but....he did mention several times last year that he thought Derrick deserved to play more than Junior...but out of loyalty to Junior..he was going to ride him...

You've twisted yourself into quite a knot here.

So based on what Buzz said last year, you think that Buzz started a guy out of loyalty (Junior) versus who he thought was the better player (Derrick).

Yet now he is starting a guy out of loyalty (Derrick) over the better player (Dawson).

So if the transitive property is in full effect here, that means Dawson>>>>Derrick>>>>Junior.

Is that really what you are saying?

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

You've twisted yourself into quite a knot here.

So based on what Buzz said last year, you think that Buzz started a guy out of loyalty (Junior) versus who he thought was the better player (Derrick).

Yet now he is starting a guy out of loyalty (Derrick) over the better player (Dawson).

So if the transitive property is in full effect here, that means Dawson>>>>Derrick>>>>Junior.

Is that really what you are saying?

Maybe this is indeed rocket science...

[brewcity77]

Of course people would be happier if they were making their shots.  But that is the whole point.  This team is not a very good outside shooting team.  They weren't last year and they won't be this year.  MU teams during Buzz's tenure (with the exception of Lazar and the midgets year) have not been great shooting teams.

They don't have to be an outside shooting team. I really don't think I'm asking for much. Last year we weren't a great outside shooting team, but when left alone, Junior, Vander, and Jamil usually knocked down the shot. And we were the best team in the league inside the arc. Not at the line, but in terms of 2PFG%.

Make our easy misses inside the arc and hit half the wide-open looks from three and we still won't be a great shooting team, but we don't have to be with this defense.

[NersEllenson]

You've twisted yourself into quite a knot here.

So based on what Buzz said last year, you think that Buzz started a guy out of loyalty (Junior) versus who he thought was the better player (Derrick).

Yet now he is starting a guy out of loyalty (Derrick) over the better player (Dawson).

So if the transitive property is in full effect here, that means Dawson>>>>Derrick>>>>Junior.

Is that really what you are saying?

I'm not sure why I even bother with replying to you Sultan...but....you asked 1 example of when Buzz has played a senior player over a better younger player.  I gave you the above example.  Buzz said it last year..several times...that maybe Derrick should be the starter, but he's loyal and riding Junior.  So, like I wrote...maybe Derrick is just a great practice player, but can't put it together in games.  Maybe Buzz was just tweaking Junior and trying to light a fire underneath him...

One area you and I can at least agree on is:  We both know Derrick Wilson is not the answer at PG, and that unless he somehow radically improves - and if Buzz continues to ride him -it will be a long year.  I doubt that will happen, as we at least saw Jamil there for awhile.  Would I prefer that Buzz give Dawson that run at point??  Yes....just to see what he can do with some good, long stretches of minutes.  Maybe Dawson doesn't earn it in practice, and is perhaps the opposite of Derrick - in that Dawson plays better when the lights come on....but yes, all I can base it off of was what I saw Dawson do in the Grambling game when he got extended run.  Yes it was Grambling - but he looked the part of PG a lot more than Derrick.  (Which I'm sure you will know try to roast me for saying - looked the part.)  To which I've answered why I feel that way 10 times for you, Brew, Ammo....but of those 3, at least you too can identify that Derrick Wilson is not the answer at PG for this team.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Derrick Wilson is not the answer at PG for this team.

I think something is getting lost in the semantics.

I do not think Derrick Wilson is a great PG. He's average/below average, and he's played like it.

BUT...

He's the best PG option on the roster. Buzz will continue to give him 20+ minutes.

That's it.

Jamil will get some minutes. Todd will get some minutes. That's fine. Those minutes are coming because Derrick hasn't been great, and there isn't a serviceable replacement on the roster.

At some point, maybe dawson and or duane will be ready... but for now, Derrick is the guy.

[GGGG]

I'm not sure why I even bother with replying to you Sultan...but....you asked 1 example of when Buzz has played a senior player over a better younger player.  I gave you the above example.  Buzz said it last year..several times...that maybe Derrick should be the starter, but he's loyal and riding Junior.  So, like I wrote...maybe Derrick is just a great practice player, but can't put it together in games.  Maybe Buzz was just tweaking Junior and trying to light a fire underneath him...

BTW, he didn't say Derrick was better.  Buzz said that he "deserved to start" over Junior.

[Windyplayer]

I think something is getting lost in the semantics.
He's the best PG option on the roster.

See 100 other posts on this thread. That's debatable.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

See 100 other posts on this thread. That's debatable.

Right, but I think somehow saying "Derrick is the best on the roster" gets translated into:

"Derrick is good at PG!"... which isn't what I've said.

Derrick is the best option on the roster, not unlike Dwight Burke, Ousmane Barro, Junior Cadougan, or many others in a long list of MU role players.

[NersEllenson]

Right, but I think somehow saying "Derrick is the best on the roster" gets translated into:

"Derrick is good at PG!"... which isn't what I've said.

Derrick is the best option on the roster, not unlike Dwight Burke, Ousmane Barro, Junior Cadougan, or many others in a long list of MU role players.

How can you say Derrick is the best PG on the roster, when you've seen only 1 game where Dawson got a fair amount of run to show what he could do - Grambling.  Derrick leads the team in minutes played.  We've seen 2 years of Derrick prior to this year.  To just assume he's the best PG option on the roster, is, well, quite assumptive.  Dawson showed well in the game he got 20 minutes.  All I want to see is what Dawson can show getting 20 minutes a game moving forward.  I know one thing - it won't be worse than what Derrick has "shown." 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

How can you say Derrick is the best PG on the roster, when you've seen only 1 game where Dawson got a fair amount of run to show what he could do - Grambling.  Derrick leads the team in minutes played.  We've seen 2 years of Derrick prior to this year.  To just assume he's the best PG option on the roster, is, well, quite assumptive.  Dawson showed well in the game he got 20 minutes.  All I want to see is what Dawson can show getting 20 minutes a game moving forward.  I know one thing - it won't be worse than what Derrick has "shown."  

I trust that Buzz Williams puts his toughest/most effective players on the floor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nf7SuRwIfE&feature=youtu.be&t=8m54s

http://youtu.be/uC7QEOa_MCo?t=6m23s

[GGGG]

I trust that Buzz Williams puts his toughest/most effective players on the floor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nf7SuRwIfE&feature=youtu.be&t=8m54s

http://youtu.be/uC7QEOa_MCo?t=6m23s

Exactly.  It's not loyalty.  It's this.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

We don't know that Dawson is not the answer; we KNOW that De Wilson is not the answer.

Huge case of backup quarterback syndrome

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't know what Buzz sees in Jake, yet he plays him. I say he's on the pine for ASU.

Best 3P shooter on the team so far in both 3PM and 3P%. Also an above average defender on a very talented defense.

His offensive skill set is limited but we need three point threat to unclog the paint. Jake hasn't been great at it, but he's been the best at it so far this season.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Read this thread in its entirety. HILARIOUS stuff in here.

1. The title of the thread alone is ridiculous. It implies right off the bat that the OP thinks Buzz is a hack who doesn't know how to put together a starting lineup.
2. Speaking of the OP, I think we should really fire Buzz and hire HaywardHeroes, he clearly knows better than a coach who has been to the dance 5 times, sweet 16 3 times, and elite 8 once.
3. There was at least an entire page of posts about spelling and grammar. Brew, stop being a spelling nazi. HH, it's spelled Otule and you did use literally incorrectly.
4. We are an ugly offensive team. But we are a good basketball team. Somehow we need to come to terms with that fact.
5. DEFENSE IS JUST AS IF NOT MORE IMPORTANT THAN OFFENSE
6. D Wilson can't score and isn't the best floor general. Dawson's offensive potential is unknown to scoopers but not to Buzz. We know D Wilson is a stellar defender. Again, DEFENSE IS JUST AS IF NOT MORE IMPORTANT THAN OFFENSE
7. Buzz does not start seniors for the sake of loyalty. He starts who will win him the game. To assume otherwise is ridiculous.
8. Team Derrick: He is an above average defender and a below average offensive player. Let's not make him to be more than he is. Team Dawson: If Buzz is sitting him this much against cupcakes, it probably means he is not ready. Buzz knows better than you.
9. Guns N Ammo, your avatar creeps me out but I think you are one of my favorite posters. The bit about firing Buzz if he was starting the wrong guy was brilliant
10. Props to whoever wrote "ITS NOVEMBER 22 AND WE ARE 3-1. MAYBE WE SHOULD STOP FREAKING OUT. Truer words have never been spoken